The African Traditional And Diasporic Religions Thread (Santeria, IFA, 21 Divisions, Sanse + etc)

[$cam-U-Well_Jack$on]

Double post.

 

[Jimmy from Linkedin]

Before my munanso/ilè, I knew absolutely nothing about Palo and in fact, I was told to stay away from it. As months/weeks went by, I found myself gravitating towards it (trying my best to ignore it what would knew to be true of myself), later on discovering as to why that was. I didn't purposely seek out my munanso/ilè and as stated previously, one would have to suspend belief as to how I discovered it in da first place so that's something that I regard to be extremely private. Previously, I had only known of Vodou (Ayisen particularly and West Afrikan). I had been atheistic for some years but it's as though something had awakened inside of me one day, a strong draw of sorts, a fire. Which occured after a bout of numerous tribulations I had to endure/face. Even da years in which I was atheistic, I was always drawn to what many considered to be da occult, spiritual sysyems and such. I'm a Southerner coming from a family that's heavily Christian yet, unbeknownst to many of them, there are or were quite a few of our kinfolks that practiced either Hoodoo or Vodou. Regarding Palo, it absolutely isn't for everyone and it isn't something one chooses. And I'm not one for dispelling or validating what many muthafukkas have been led to believe about it. One would have to go into far too much detail which could potentially go against oaths, treaties and such. It's extremely complex.

medase pa, thank you very much for your contributions. You've definitely described and confirmed a feeling that I had about This, that for the most part is like describing your own birth, you can't really, but you can tell people ur birthday, and associated story. I'm glad to have contributed on this platform to make good accurate and precise information about our spiritual systems.

I'm curious to know, if you could look through what we've presented in this thread so far, to see if what we have here is up to snuff with regards to the information that you live/practice so that we can continue to benefit in our accuracy.

 

[Guvnor]

Before my munanso/ilè, I knew absolutely nothing about Palo and in fact, I was told to stay away from it. As months/weeks went by, I found myself gravitating towards it (trying my best to ignore it what would knew to be true of myself), later on discovering as to why that was. I didn't purposely seek out my munanso/ilè and as stated previously, one would have to suspend belief as to how I discovered it in da first place so that's something that I regard to be extremely private. Previously, I had only known of Vodou (Ayisen particularly and West Afrikan). I had been atheistic for some years but it's as though something had awakened inside of me one day, a strong draw of sorts, a fire. Which occured after a bout of numerous tribulations I had to endure/face. Even da years in which I was atheistic, I was always drawn to what many considered to be da occult, spiritual sysyems and such. I'm a Southerner coming from a family that's heavily Christian yet, unbeknownst to many of them, there are or were quite a few of our kinfolks that practiced either Hoodoo or Vodou. Regarding Palo, it absolutely isn't for everyone and it isn't something one chooses. And I'm not one for dispelling or validating what many muthafukkas have been led to believe about it. One would have to go into far too much detail which could potentially go against oaths, treaties and such. It's extremely complex.

I see, thanks for sharing about it what you could man. Palo always seems interesting to me but from my understanding it's very amoral which is what scares me about it. I don't think it's for me but it's interesting to say the least.

Also good to hear you found a path that works for you. That's awesome.

 

[$cam-U-Well_Jack$on]

I got lucky in da fact that A) both of my godparents speak English and Spanish alike and B) despite da fact that many AA's proclaim to wanna reclaim what was lost of our traditions, I initially didn't pay any mind to it but there's truth to da fact there are ilès or munansos that simply don't wanna teach black folks so there's that element as well. Luckily, it isn't sum'n I gotta deal with despite my frustrations at times. It's a wonderful feeling to see muthafukkas who are da same melanated hue as myself, my elders, at varying standing regarding hierarchy, make their strides as well as embracing me when in their presence. A proud feeling. And make no mistake about, despite these traditions being rightfully ours which is true, black folks can appropriate as well. One has to understand that despite da aforementioned, no one is entitled and would have to go through da same rites of passage as those that walked before us did. Respect is to be earned, not given. Folks gotta make da distinction between ATR's and DTR's as well. I won't even get started on charlatans and da fukkery that many facilitate due to being mislead, improperly taught, greed or self gain. Yes, a lot of muthafukkas tend to use things for da purpose of evil or bad. But that doesn't speak to da whole. Nothing of my way of life is a trend despite what social media posts of silly muthafukkas would have you believe.

 

[BigMan]

I got lucky in da fact that A) both of my godparents speak English and Spanish alike and B) despite da fact that many AA's proclaim to wanna reclaim what was lost of our traditions, I initially didn't pay any mind to it but there's truth to da fact there are ilès or munansos that simply don't wanna teach black folks so there's that element as well. Luckily, it isn't sum'n I gotta deal with despite my frustrations at times. It's a wonderful feeling to see muthafukkas who are da same melanated hue as myself, my elders, at varying standing regarding hierarchy, make their strides as well as embracing me when in their presence. A proud feeling. And make no mistake about, despite these traditions being rightfully ours which is true, black folks can appropriate as well. One has to understand that despite da aforementioned, no one is entitled and would have to go through da same rites of passage as those that walked before us did. Respect is to be earned, not given. Folks gotta make da distinction between ATR's and DTR's as well. I won't even get started on charlatans and da fukkery that many facilitate due to being mislead, improperly taught, greed or self gain. Yes, a lot of muthafukkas tend to use things for da purpose of evil or bad. But that doesn't speak to da whole. Nothing of my way of life is a trend despite what social media posts of silly muthafukkas would have you believe.

by ATR and DTR you mean African vs. Diaspora?

 

[$cam-U-Well_Jack$on]

by ATR and DTR you mean African vs. Diaspora?

Yes. Afrikan Traditional Religions/Diasporic Traditional Religions.

 

[Guvnor]

I got lucky in da fact that A) both of my godparents speak English and Spanish alike and B) despite da fact that many AA's proclaim to wanna reclaim what was lost of our traditions, I initially didn't pay any mind to it but there's truth to da fact there are ilès or munansos that simply don't wanna teach black folks so there's that element as well. Luckily, it isn't sum'n I gotta deal with despite my frustrations at times. It's a wonderful feeling to see muthafukkas who are da same melanated hue as myself, my elders, at varying standing regarding hierarchy, make their strides as well as embracing me when in their presence. A proud feeling. And make no mistake about, despite these traditions being rightfully ours which is true, black folks can appropriate as well. One has to understand that despite da aforementioned, no one is entitled and would have to go through da same rites of passage as those that walked before us did. Respect is to be earned, not given. Folks gotta make da distinction between ATR's and DTR's as well. I won't even get started on charlatans and da fukkery that many facilitate due to being mislead, improperly taught, greed or self gain. Yes, a lot of muthafukkas tend to use things for da purpose of evil or bad. But that doesn't speak to da whole. Nothing of my way of life is a trend despite what social media posts of silly muthafukkas would have you believe.

Are you purely African American or are you cuban or latin american as well? Also what is DTR?

Part of what you mention about Latin American people not wanting to teach blacks is why I feel personally we need more black iles and not exclusively black but ile with us as the majority. No disrespect to the spanish brothers and sisters out there but some of them, some of them are very much c00ns. They wanna claim African traditions but they don't like black people and especially not us African Americans. They wanna beef with Nigerians and consider them illegitimate but then took their culture, when they should really be building bridges and exchanging information. I mean one hands has to wash the other and both of them have to wash the face, that's just how it goes but maybe we will get there one day and be able to create a big network between us and the family in Africa but more work will have to be done. Also you're right man, this stuff is not a trend which is why it pissed me off seeing the dude who was supposed to be my godfather taking pics with teikahsha69 for social media likes and boasting about being his godfather. It confirms I was right about not choosing him and i would have to learn from someone else when that time comes. Some people are making it a trendy kind of thing but I understand you have to come in with respect.

 

[Guvnor]

Yes. Afrikan Traditional Religions/Diasporic Traditional Religions.

I also wanted to ask if you godparents are very much into saint worship and into Catholicism or if that is not the case in lucumi as much as one would think?

 

[$cam-U-Well_Jack$on]

Are you purely African American or are you cuban or latin american as well? Also what is DTR?

Part of what you mention about Latin American people not wanting to teach blacks is why I feel personally we need more black iles and not exclusively black but ile with us as the majority. No disrespect to the spanish brothers and sisters out there but some of them, some of them are very much c00ns. They wanna claim African traditions but they don't like black people and especially not us African Americans. They wanna beef with Nigerians and consider them illegitimate but then took their culture, when they should really be building bridges and exchanging information. I mean one hands has to wash the other and both of them have to wash the face, that's just how it goes but maybe we will get there one day and be able to create a big network between us and the family in Africa but more work will have to be done. Also you're right man, this stuff is not a trend which is why it pissed me off seeing the dude who was supposed to be my godfather taking pics with teikahsha69 for social media likes and boasting about being his godfather. It confirms I was right about not choosing him and i would have to learn from someone else when that time comes. Some people are making it a trendy kind of thing but I understand you have to come in with respect.

I'm purely AA. DTR is Diasporic Traditional Religions. I wouldn't say a "beef" with Nigerians but moreso an issue as to how things are done. Everything is for sale in Niger. They'll initiate damn near anyone if you have da money. Abroad and stateside as well. Not to say they're da only ones pullin' that kinda shyt, because there's a whole buncha unscrupulous muthafukkas that will, just look at Atlanta as an example. But that's in regards to IFA.

 

[$cam-U-Well_Jack$on]

I also wanted to ask if you godparents are very much into saint worship and into Catholicism or if that is not the case in lucumi as much as one would think?

Firstly, do you know what Lukumi is??? No, I'm not being facetious or tryna be funny.

 

[Guvnor]

I'm purely AA. DTR is Diasporic Traditional Religions. I wouldn't say a "beef" with Nigerians but moreso an issue as to how things are done. Everything is for sale in Niger. They'll initiate damn near anyone if you have da money. Abroad and stateside as well. Not to say they're da only ones pullin' that kinda shyt, because there's a whole buncha unscrupulous muthafukkas that will, just look at Atlanta as an example. But that's in regards to IFA.

Oh I see got it and you're right man, many of them let people get titles in their traditions who are not qualified and their was some recent scandal about that. Even the position about the Iyanifa and it's legitimacy is questioned and some say it's fake but something the Nigerians created to trick foreigners. It's crazy but as you said many people are frauds, not only in nigeria but even in here in the states as well in both IFA and ocha. I even heard stories about people being crowned to the wrong orisha when I spoke to Frank Baba Eyiogbe. I also seen a few cubans try to seemingly invalidate the traditions of Nigeria and the Nigerians don't see the cubans and us in the diaspora as legit either. Hopefully things change for the better sooner or later.

Firstly, do you know what Lukumi is??? No, I'm not being facetious or tryna be funny.

Well yes and no, yes because I know a lot about the history and things like that but no because I am not initiated. I know originally people used the saints to hide their orisha worship but I also hear about many cubans who are devout Catholics and take the saint thing a bit more serious having days for St.Michael or Caridad Del Cobre. Then I hear many let go of a heavy use of the saints and catholicism though you might see them on an altar and things like that. I was wondering which is more accurate, as far as you see are people heavy into catholicism or are the saints only used as icons for the orisha?

 

[BigMan]

anyone have info on obeah...specifically in Jamaica, Bim, and the Anglophone caribbean

 

[Guvnor]

@$cam-U-Well_Jack$on Still waiting on your answer fam.

anyone have info on obeah...specifically in Jamaica, Bim, and the Anglophone caribbean

Wish I could help you but don't know much about obeah tbh.

 

[$cam-U-Well_Jack$on]

@$cam-U-Well_Jack$on Still waiting on your answer fam.


Wish I could help you but don't know much about obeah tbh.

Syncretism with Catholic saints is commonplace. Now what a person does based upon their personal tastes is solely on that invididual. When one makes Santo then they can do what they want regarding how they operate their ilè. Just because you can do a lot of things doesn't necessarily mean that one should. I adhere to tradition and don't believe in cuttin' corners to appease to folks' sensibilities or personal tastes so if there's any syncretism, I'm gonna adhere to that. Da thing of it is, these traditions can be practiced side by side with Catholicism, Christianity, etc. (not at all saying that those ideologies mesh, correspond or compliment each other) . so to those that are unaware, it'd be hard to tell. But yes, you'll see syncretism regarding quite a few traditions.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

anyone have info on obeah...specifically in Jamaica, Bim, and the Anglophone caribbean

I posted on this earlier. It comes from Odinani, the Igbo religion.