The African Traditional And Diasporic Religions Thread (Santeria, IFA, 21 Divisions, Sanse + etc)

[Neuromancer]

@Intruder v3.0

 

[Jimmy from Linkedin]

Thanks and glad you appreciate the info I shared, I also appreciate you sharing the info you did as well as the info about this author because I honestly didnt know any of that lol. I have yet to really dig into this book yet but will as soon as I get some time as well as the videos you posted.

You touched on a great point regarding the difference between us practicing here in the states versus those in Africa so I'm glad the author takes that into account. I mean think about it not only are the plants different but even our culture is different and acculturation has taken place where we picked up some elements of different cultures, an example of this is the term alaafia being used in IFA, alaafia I hear is a Muslim word. Some people in IFA even say assalamualaikum. When people of different cultures cross paths it's natural this will happen.

Another thing that happened is syncretism where we blended our practices with other practices to keep it going as done to its lucumi Orishas worship and catholcisim. Aside from that as you mentioned the plants were different due to this being a different area geographically but even some knowledge was forgotten I'm sure and some more knowledge was added on to it which I'm sure will happen with IFA since it is largely an oral tradition. This works like a game of telephone where if you have a room full of people and you whisper in one persons ear a message and you allow that message to go around the room from one person to the next by way of whispering, by the time that message gets to the last person it will change. This is why it's important imo that we write some of this down though at the same time it's only natural things will change and evolve with IFA and other African spiritual systems. It's also important we write from an African American perspective as well so I salute this authour.

I will definitely purchase a copy of his book when I'm able to get some money together because right now my money is kind of tight but you are right. We have to support our people when we can because many times we support white people, you might as well put some of your money when you can in the hands of our people and communities.

Yeah the absorption has happened. I am not necessarily sure about perpetuating what has been absorbed however. I tend to agree with Bro. Odwirafo though in the point he makes. The word Odwira means purification in Akan. He states, often, as does HRM Agbovi in this article (lightly), that although the syncretic adaptations has made it possible to carry these traditions through and beyond the Maafa/Mmuso Kese (Enslavement Era), I do not think we need to even acknowledge them beyond that the syncretism has served its purpose. So the works of like Odwirafo's, HRM Agbovi, the linguistic work of Dr. Kambon, John Mason, these Blacknificent scholars are cleaning house. Once, imho, we begin to understand like, this is really all very new information, its only been 3 gens since that era was ended stateside, you know? Those of us who are moving towards our Right Afrikan Minds, and Walking with our Left Foot Forward, our Ancestors will see us and begin giving us information almost on a OD level because those truths that build towards higher truths have been gone for so long, but they are not lost! We carry them in our blood, but it may not be yours to, but maybe your great-grandkids to fully flesh out. This is why black love again is so so so so so important!

As for the bolded, HRM Agbovi talks about your astute point in this blog article (I was also thinking about this this morning because he has inspired me heavy to learn N'Ko among other indigenous Afrikan scripts). Odwirafo's work is definitely a testament to the point that you are making.

 

[Neuromancer]

Is anyone here initiated?

 

[Guvnor]

Yeah the absorption has happened. I am not necessarily sure about perpetuating what has been absorbed however. I tend to agree with Bro. Odwirafo though in the point he makes. The word Odwira means purification in Akan. He states, often, as does HRM Agbovi in this article (lightly), that although the syncretic adaptations has made it possible to carry these traditions through and beyond the Maafa/Mmuso Kese (Enslavement Era), I do not think we need to even acknowledge them beyond that the syncretism has served its purpose. So the works of like Odwirafo's, HRM Agbovi, the linguistic work of Dr. Kambon, John Mason, these Blacknificent scholars are cleaning house. Once, imho, we begin to understand like, this is really all very new information, its only been 3 gens since that era was ended stateside, you know? Those of us who are moving towards our Right Afrikan Minds, and Walking with our Left Foot Forward, our Ancestors will see us and begin giving us information almost on a OD level because those truths that build towards higher truths have been gone for so long, but they are not lost! We carry them in our blood, but it may not be yours to, but maybe your great-grandkids to fully flesh out. This is why black love again is so so so so so important!

As for the bolded, HRM Agbovi talks about your astute point in this blog article (I was also thinking about this this morning because he has inspired me heavy to learn N'Ko among other indigenous Afrikan scripts). Odwirafo's work is definitely a testament to the point that you are making.

Great points and I mostly agree with you but that's easier said then done, I mean people who are stern Catholics for instance will not give that up, a lot of our mothers and grandmothers will not give up their Christianity and their of love the lawd lol and also syncretism will always happen on some level if we live and interact with those of another culture. Another thing to consider is that people will argue that their are benefits to learning from other cultures because they may have some knowledge we can learn as well. However it's a double edge sword because while we pick up other cultures we dilute our own so to speak and thus it's better to try and get as pure as possible.

Thanks for sharing that blog article brother, he really breaks down the importance of a writing system and even explains somethings I didn't even consider. He is right and exact and hopefully the practitioners of the Mawuyi traditions work to establish a writing system as well as other African systems that rely heavily on a mostly oral tradition.

Is anyone here initiated?

Good question, I'm not but want to be initiated in IFA at some point in the future. It's expensive though and also you have to find legitimate people to initiate you too. There are a lot of scammers out there.

 

[Jimmy from Linkedin]

Great points and I mostly agree with you but that's easier said then done, I mean people who are stern Catholics for instance will not give that up, a lot of our mothers and grandmothers will not give up their Christianity and their of love the lawd lol and also syncretism will always happen on some level if we live and interact with those of another culture. Another thing to consider is that people will argue that their are benefits to learning from other cultures because they may have some knowledge we can learn as well. However it's a double edge sword because while we pick up other cultures we dilute our own so to speak and thus it's better to try and get as pure as possible.

Thanks for sharing that blog article brother, he really breaks down the importance of a writing system and even explains somethings I didn't even consider. He is right and exact and hopefully the practitioners of the Mawuyi traditions work to establish a writing system as well as other African systems that rely heavily on a mostly oral tradition.



Good question, I'm not but want to be initiated in IFA at some point in the future. It's expensive though and also you have to find legitimate people to initiate you too. There are a lot of scammers out there.

Dr. Llaila Afrika had a really good piece of advice/suggestion for this on his episode of The C.O.W.S, he said something to the effect of "for relatives, all you have to do is be relative." Proselytization and stuff like that, all that stuff is, imo, messianic stuff. We don't need none of that messianic stuff anymore. To borrow Odwirafo's analogy, all black people have to do is operate according to their function as cells within the Divine Black Body. If you are Tuesday-Born Male, your "organ system function" is that of the immune system. Your divine obligation is to provide the internal defense/offense mechanism of the body, to maintain it's health. Destroying destruction for the maintenance of Divine Order. He has another one analogy where each Black/Afurakani/Afurakaitnit person is a tuning fork, as you get in tune, others who want to get in tune, will begin vibrating according to their frequency. Thats the point of this thread.

Is anyone here initiated?

I'm not either, trying to break myself of many many concepts first before I take that long walk. Dewhitenization, ReAfrikanization as Dr. Kambon (both) talks about. In this episode of Afrika's Reascension Ifakolade Alaroye Lasana (Jahsun Edmonds) talks, the little that he can, about his/the initiation into IFA. I've not reached out to him on FB but you can follow him on there and he does FBLive divinations and egungun readings and stuff. He practices a lot with people in the lukumi tradition out there in LA I think. I want to also get a roots reading to see where I come from and what I have in my blood. Odwirafo says you don't need to be initiated for that blood reason, because as Guvnor talked about, there are a lot of need-to-grows worldwide initiating honkys amongst other practices. Odwirafo also says that the shrine work is really all you need to do, the ancestors who are constantly reaching down, as you start reaching up, they'll take you through all the info. I haven't been involved with it as much as I should, partly because of the reason I stated at the beginning of this passage.

 

[Neuromancer]

@medase @Guvnor either of you have altars?

 

[BigMan]

I know this is a super old post, but can you elaborate on this? I've got a green thumb also.

just she loves planting and using herbs for different ailments

 

[Guvnor]

Dr. Llaila Afrika had a really good piece of advice/suggestion for this on his episode of The C.O.W.S, he said something to the effect of "for relatives, all you have to do is be relative." Proselytization and stuff like that, all that stuff is, imo, messianic stuff. We don't need none of that messianic stuff anymore. To borrow Odwirafo's analogy, all black people have to do is operate according to their function as cells within the Divine Black Body. If you are Tuesday-Born Male, your "organ system function" is that of the immune system. Your divine obligation is to provide the internal defense/offense mechanism of the body, to maintain it's health. Destroying destruction for the maintenance of Divine Order. He has another one analogy where each Black/Afurakani/Afurakaitnit person is a tuning fork, as you get in tune, others who want to get in tune, will begin vibrating according to their frequency. Thats the point of this thread.

Indeed but easier said then done. Many of our people are programmed so deeply it's hard to get through to them, even some of our queens are into dating the white man and they believe the generalizations said about us black men. It's crazy, crazy but I have hope we will get there collectively sooner or later. Even seeing a brother like Jay-Z and his Wife beyonce dropping little hints and references here and there gives me hope. 21 Savage also surprisingly practices IFA although he doesn't give the best light to the traditions imo with all his murder talk in his raps.

I'm not either, trying to break myself of many many concepts first before I take that long walk. Dewhitenization, ReAfrikanization as Dr. Kambon (both) talks about. In this episode of Afrika's Reascension Ifakolade Alaroye Lasana (Jahsun Edmonds) talks, the little that he can, about his/the initiation into IFA. I've not reached out to him on FB but you can follow him on there and he does FBLive divinations and egungun readings and stuff. He practices a lot with people in the lukumi tradition out there in LA I think. I want to also get a roots reading to see where I come from and what I have in my blood. Odwirafo says you don't need to be initiated for that blood reason, because as Guvnor talked about, there are a lot of need-to-grows worldwide initiating honkys amongst other practices. Odwirafo also says that the shrine work is really all you need to do, the ancestors who are constantly reaching down, as you start reaching up, they'll take you through all the info. I haven't been involved with it as much as I should, partly because of the reason I stated at the beginning of this passage.

Jahsun Edmonds does the root readings? Also facts man, their initiating white folks and believe IFA allows them in with no discrimination due to the readings but my thing is the white people have been destroying our people and our culture globally for centuries at this point. Why let the white people in and turn the other cheek when they don't accept our people as shown by their actions. When you try to discuss this people will bring up black people that are mixed like the creoles and Spanish Caribbean folks and white folks also try to flip it and say you're racist if you decide to question them coming into the traditions and pretty much that they are practicing already and their is nothing we can do about it which to me is absurd. Another thing some people say is that white people should get a chance at healing and help and that maybe IFA can help them to heal and put an end to racism because then they would have to bond with us but I personally feel that is just wishful thinking and if we are not careful we will live to regret it.

 

[Guvnor]

@medase @Guvnor either of you have altars?

Not really, the one I have is incomplete and consists of just a glass of water I change every Monday and a candle. I want to add some pictures and other items when I get the chance to.

 

[Jimmy from Linkedin]

Indeed but easier said then done. Many of our people are programmed so deeply it's hard to get through to them, even some of our queens are into dating the white man and they believe the generalizations said about us black men. It's crazy, crazy but I have hope we will get there collectively sooner or later. Even seeing a brother like Jay-Z and his Wife beyonce dropping little hints and references here and there gives me hope. 21 Savage also surprisingly practices IFA although he doesn't give the best light to the traditions imo with all his murder talk in his raps.



Jahsun Edmonds does the root readings? Also facts man, their initiating white folks and believe IFA allows them in with no discrimination due to the readings but my thing is the white people have been destroying our people and our culture globally for centuries at this point. Why let the white people in and turn the other cheek when they don't accept our people as shown by their actions. When you try to discuss this people will bring up black people that are mixed like the creoles and Spanish Caribbean folks and white folks also try to flip it and say you're racist if you decide to question them coming into the traditions and pretty much that they are practicing already and their is nothing we can do about it which to me is absurd. Another thing some people say is that white people should get a chance at healing and help and that maybe IFA can help them to heal and put an end to racism because then they would have to bond with us but I personally feel that is just wishful thinking and if we are not careful we will live to regret it.

Yeah I agree, it is easier said than done. We just have to continue operating in our most optimistic and realistic fashion. Also, I wasn't clear about the bolded, HRM Agbovi does roots readings, but Jahsun does the kola divinations on FBLive. Someone's signature on here says that they think Black people should be more racist, I am inclined to agree because, we are, on average, only 3 generations away from 400 years of slavery. I think that once we start practicing, this should be made known to us of what we are doing, how it is necessary for our liberation. I'm not calling for wholesale initiations of everyone into their spiro-genetic blood traditions, the conditioning of those 400+ years has made it for the most of us not to be ready, but for the destruction of abrahamic messianism for Black people, I'm definitely calling for that. No whites allowed in this, this is for us, and for us only! Anyone who wants to hold whitey's hand in this really should follow them into a grave. Ifa, Vodun, and the other traditions I have to learn about are far far to real and dangerous to have your mind caught up in wanting to bring honkies in the mix. You'll hurt urself and those around you by invoking spirits of disorder because your mind is compromised and receptive to them.

@medase @Guvnor either of you have altars?

I had one set up for a bit, but collapsed it for other reasons and I try to treat my plants as that altar, using them to communicate with the Divine. I am terrible at sitting down with them though.

just she loves planting and using herbs for different ailments

Thanks, I am new and don't now how to rep, but when I learn I got you.

 

[Guvnor]

Yeah I agree, it is easier said than done. We just have to continue operating in our most optimistic and realistic fashion. Also, I wasn't clear about the bolded, HRM Agbovi does roots readings, but Jahsun does the kola divinations on FBLive. Someone's signature on here says that they think Black people should be more racist, I am inclined to agree because, we are, on average, only 3 generations away from 400 years of slavery. I think that once we start practicing, this should be made known to us of what we are doing, how it is necessary for our liberation. I'm not calling for wholesale initiations of everyone into their spiro-genetic blood traditions, the conditioning of those 400+ years has made it for the most of us not to be ready, but for the destruction of abrahamic messianism for Black people, I'm definitely calling for that. No whites allowed in this, this is for us, and for us only! Anyone who wants to hold whitey's hand in this really should follow them into a grave. Ifa, Vodun, and the other traditions I have to learn about are far far to real and dangerous to have your mind caught up in wanting to bring honkies in the mix. You'll hurt urself and those around you by invoking spirits of disorder because your mind is compromised and receptive to them.

Oh I have to check out both of them for readings then, I definitely could use one and haven't had one done in a few months. Thanks for mentioning both of those priest and also I agree with you. A lot of black people want to be too inclusive and some of us want to be like white people if you ask me but we will get no where with that mentality. We have to do for self and for our people, that is the only way we will improve collectively. We have to get rid of the religions that we adapted by way of being put into slavery and imo change some of the values we have too. We are too focused on spending money when we get it and buying luxury items, but we have to start investing in business, in the community and owning property. I'm not saying not to buy nice things because I like nice things myself but we have to put thing in perspective and pull back from all the frivolous spending. That another thing I feel we have to do but bringing it back to spirituality, I agree with all that you said and feel that bringing white people into the mix is also dangerous because they can learn our secrets, our mysteries and use it against us. They don't ever easily let us into their things so why should we accept them into our spiritual traditions?

People argue things like orunmila said in a reading they could get in but I still don't think we should allow them in imo. Don't even let them on to the mat for the reading.

 

[Jimmy from Linkedin]

Oh I have to check out both of them for readings then, I definitely could use one and haven't had one done in a few months. Thanks for mentioning both of those priest and also I agree with you. A lot of black people want to be too inclusive and some of us want to be like white people if you ask me but we will get no where with that mentality. We have to do for self and for our people, that is the only way we will improve collectively. We have to get rid of the religions that we adapted by way of being put into slavery and imo change some of the values we have too. We are too focused on spending money when we get it and buying luxury items, but we have to start investing in business, in the community and owning property. I'm not saying not to buy nice things because I like nice things myself but we have to put thing in perspective and pull back from all the frivolous spending. That another thing I feel we have to do but bringing it back to spirituality, I agree with all that you said and feel that bringing white people into the mix is also dangerous because they can learn our secrets, our mysteries and use it against us. They don't ever easily let us into their things so why should we accept them into our spiritual traditions?

People argue things like orunmila said in a reading they could get in but I still don't think we should allow them in imo. Don't even let them on to the mat for the reading.

Exactly. Dont even let em see the temple!

Has anyone here noticed anything about them changing since embracing any of our systems? Thoughts, dreams, ideas, bodily functions, etc. I think it would be helpful to let one another know things to look for in their daily life, or to be able to contextualize what could previously be considered as "surreal" experiences.

 

[Guvnor]

My potential Godfather with that sugartank nikka 69 I'm glad I didn't choose him as a godfather and knew he was a fraud...smh. Dude even tried to sell me an elegua without any initiations.

Exactly. Dont even let em see the temple!

Has anyone here noticed anything about them changing since embracing any of our systems? Thoughts, dreams, ideas, bodily functions, etc. I think it would be helpful to let one another know things to look for in their daily life, or to be able to contextualize what could previously be considered as "surreal" experiences.

Facts and to answer your question even the way I found the traditions was surreal. I saw a store one day while I was on the bus that had the saints and Orishas in the window and for some reason my forehead started tingling which sometimes happens to me due to me being on a spiritual journey prior to learning about IFA. I didn't know what the store was at first then I had a discussion with a friend a couple weeks later online about something unrelated and he mentioned santeria and his experience with it, how his father who was in the religion read his head when he was younger and things like that and by that conversation I was able to put two and two together and found out that the store I saw was a botanica. Out of curiosity I went in the store for a reading which is the store in the first pic in Bushwick, Brooklyn and my journey began from there, I started reading a lot about it and watching videos on African Spiritual traditions. The reading probably wasn't accurate because a babalawo can't read your orisha with shells I learned but it's what led me to go deeper.

I feel learning about some of these traditions has helped me see the bigger picture in a lot of ways though and has me thinking more about community in hopes more of our people can get on the same page. I also feel we need to get more african american ile's going here in the states but I'm sure that will happen soon and if it's meant for me to do so I would like to start one years down the line.

 

[Yehuda]

Who is 69?

 

[Guvnor]

Who is 69?

You never heard of him? TEKA$HI69 is basically a weirdo rapper from NY who is supposedly blood and has been beefing with Trippiered. You might have also seen him years ago in this picture that circulated around message boards.

So the situation is this, the guy on the left in the first pic of my other post was supposed to be my godfather in the traditions but I had got bad vibes from him as far as his legitimacy so I just left that situation alone. He had lied to me too in the past so I just left the situation alone. So boom, I was browsing FB and see the post with him and 69 saying he is 69's godfather. I don't know if it's true or not but 69 a weirdo rapper and if he would have been my god brother I would have been pissed lol. He better not come out mentioning IFA or Santeria either because he would make the tradition look bad.