Stockton/Malone played 18 seasons together and were eliminated in the 1st round 9 times

[mastermind]

Is there a single person on this forum that @mastermind gets along with

Nikka's real life gotta be in shambles.

I don’t get along with stupid people which is why you’ve decided to pipe up and speak since you are not a smart person.

My life is going good. I don’t brag about it because that’s poor form.

 

[Ozymandeas]

I don’t get along with stupid people which is why you’ve decided to pipe up and speak since you are not a smart person.

My life is going good. I don’t brag about it because that’s poor form.

You:

 

[mastermind]

You:

You say this, yet you jumped in this thread about Stockton and Malone to attack me. I can see a projection.

 

[ISO]

I pointed this out earlier that Shaq and Kobe had so many issues with this Jazz squad including a sweep in the conference finals in 98. These new I will devalue the teams jordan played shyt is such bullshyt.

That’s basketball that’s why sometimes these conversations are futile and all this name dropping is nonsense.

It’s a game of matchups I’m sure Shaq’s P&R defense played a huge role in why they struggled against the Jazz.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

That’s basketball that’s why sometimes these conversations are futile and all this name dropping is nonsense.

It’s a game of matchups I’m sure Shaq’s P&R defense played a huge role in why they struggled against the Jazz.

It was more the Laker perimeter players shooting like dogshyt all series. Shaq was in the middle guarding Ostertag and Foster most of the time, I don't think Utah really pulled him into pick-and-roll defense that often.

 

[Erratic415]

It was more the Laker perimeter players shooting like dogshyt all series. Shaq was in the middle guarding Ostertag and Foster most of the time, I don't think Utah really pulled him into pick-and-roll defense that often.

Yeah, those are some awful shooting numbers

1997:

1997 NBA Western Conference Semifinals - Lakers vs. Jazz | Basketball-Reference.com

Summary and statistics for the 1997 NBA Western Conference Semifinals - Lakers vs. Jazz

www.basketball-reference.com

Nick Van Exel: .418/.276/.917
Eddie Jones: .378/.385/.857 (he also only scored 10 PPG after averaging 17 in the RS)
Kobe Bryant: .316/.211/.889

At least Robert Horry & Byron Scott shot well in this series.

1998:

1998 NBA Western Conference Finals - Lakers vs. Jazz | Basketball-Reference.com

Summary and statistics for the 1998 NBA Western Conference Finals - Lakers vs. Jazz

www.basketball-reference.com

Eddie Jones: .412/.286/.933
Kobe Bryant: .367/.000/.692
Derek Fisher: .348/.167/.556
Nick Van Exel: .238/.190/.750

No wonder they got swept.

 

[ISO]

It was more the Laker perimeter players shooting like dogshyt all series. Shaq was in the middle guarding Ostertag and Foster most of the time, I don't think Utah really pulled him into pick-and-roll defense that often.

I don’t know I’d have to watch Karl Malone called Shaq and Barkley the worst P&R defenders he faced.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Is there a single person on this forum that @mastermind gets along with

Nikka's real life gotta be in shambles.

@mastermind is one of the most level-headed posters on here, even when I've disagreed with him, he's always been respectful. A pity I can't say the same for you.

On that note, why and you still hiding from all the dumb shyt you said about Jokic? Please respond to those posts ASAP.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I don’t know I’d have to watch Karl Malone called Shaq and Barkley the worst P&R defenders he faced.

That may have been true, but in 97 and 98 I really don't think Shaq was Malone's primary defender very much nor was Utah running the offense in such a way to force him into it.

Just quickly read a bunch of at-the-time breakdowns from during the series and when it ended, and they all read exactly the same.

1. Lakers couldn't score for shyt outside Shaq

2. Lakers as a team couldn't defend the pick and roll for shyt. None of the complaints mention Shaq.

3. Jazz appeared much more experienced.

4. Lakers got outcoached

There were also some mentions of good transition defense by Utah, lack of halfcourt sets by LA other than "throw it to Shaq", and someone I won't name playing selfishly.

Here's one retrospective look from 15 years later. It breaks down the pick and roll during that series and really shows it as a whole team failing. Shaq wasn't the problem there.

Flashback: Jazz at Lakers – Game 4 – 1998 Western Conference Finals

15 years ago today, the Utah Jazz swept the Los Angeles Lakers 4-0 and advanced to their second consecutive NBA Finals with a 96-92 victory in LA. As discussed when looking back at Game 1 – t…

jazzbasketball.wordpress.com

 

[NYC Rebel]

A real convo? You are incapable of that. We talked about Jason Kidd earlier and when I pushed back on your take, you ran off to another thread and tagged me about what you said in here for internet glory, like the small minded, insecure loser you are.

Hes the same clown who thinks one doesnt know politics if they dont post in the Higher Learning forum.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Hes the same clown who thinks one doesnt know politics if they dont post in the Higher Learning forum.

that's true and you are still hiding.

 

[NYC Rebel]

that's true and you are still hiding.

Get your political stripes in Higher Learning, brehs.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Get your political stripes in Higher Learning, brehs.

I work in government

 

[Diondon]

Seek mental help and/or counseling. Seriously. Many of you

 

[The Amerikkkan Idol]

Let's look at those rosters.


1989 Jazz:

PG: All-Star, 2nd-team All-NBA, 2nd-team All-Defensive, 7th in MVP vote, HOF and one of the greatest point guards ever
SG: former ROY and regular 20ppg scorer who was past his prime but still putting up 13ppg
SF: putting up nearly 20ppg
PF: All-Star, 1st-team All-NBA, 3rd in MVP vote, HOF and one of the greatest power forwards ever
C: All-Star, 1st-team All-Defensive, Defensive Player of the Year, 13th in MVP vote



1992 Jazz:

PG: All-Star, 2nd-team All-NBA, 2nd-team All-Defensive, 12th in MVP vote, HOF and one of the greatest point guards ever
SG: former All-Star still in his prime averaging 20+ ppg
SF: mid role player
PF: All-Star, 1st-team All-NBA, 4th in MVP vote, HOF, and one of the greatest power forwards ever
C: Former All-Star and DPOY, pretty washed but still averaging 2.5 blocks/game



1995 Jazz:

PG: All-Star, 1st-team All-NBA, 2nd-team All-Defensive, 8th in MVP vote, HOF and one of the greatest point guards ever
SG: former All-Star and 20ppg scorer, still in his prime averaging 17ppg
SF: shytty role player
PF: All-Star, 1st-team All-NBA, 3rd in MVP vote, HOF and one of the greatest power forwards ever
C: platoon between washed former All-Star and washed former 20ppg player



That's what sort of rosters they were fielding when they were struggling. Every fukking year they had 2 of the best players in the game, a 3rd player who was at a borderline all-star level, and a former all-star who was now a crafty vet.


At the time, Malone was considered the greatest PF ever and Stockton was considered a top-3 point guard of all time. If that was true, and they were both in their prime, with a good coach, together with all that continuity, and having multiple other solid players on the squad, how is that not enough to do something?



Yet in the 10-year stretch from 1986 to 1995, they lost in the 1st round 6 times, in the WCSF twice, and in the WCF twice. Only once did they reach a Game 7.

How is that possible?



Their 1997-1998 rosters were actually sad compared to what they were fielding 1988-1995. Stockton and Hornacek were too washed to be the starting backcourt for a title team and their SF and center rotations were less than mediocre. They only advanced those years because literally everyone else had aged out.

Look, they pushed Magic's Lakers, arguably the best dynasty ever at their peak to 7 games in '88.

If they could do that, there's lots of champions they could've beat because the '80s Lakers are sweeping 90% of the teams in NBA history

In '89, it's not like they didn't show up against Golden State.

Stockton put up 30 & 14 in the 1st game & 34 & 16 the 3rd game

Malone puts up 37 & 22 in game 2.

It's just that Chris Mullen went out of his mind in that series. He's in the Hall of Fame & was on the Dream Team for a reason.

Mitch Richmond's in the Hall of Fame too.

In '90, they lost to a Phoenix team that beat Magic's Lakers in 5 games, so Phoenix couldn't be that bad

In '91, they get revenge on that Phoenix team in the first round, but lost to a Portland team that was in between Finals runs

In '92 they lost to Portland, who gave Jordan's Bulls hell in the Finals, not a scrub team

In '93, they lost to a Sonics team that was just better. That Kemp/Payton team would go on to be a 64 win team a few years later & this team included a lot of really good players from that era like Ricky Pierce, Derrick McKey, & Sam Perkins

In '94, they lost to a top 10 player ever at his absolute peak in Hakeem Olajuwon & that Houston team beat a great Knicks team

In '95, they again lost to a better team in a peak Hakeem Olajuwon with Clyde Drexler, who'd go on to sweep Shaq & Penny in the Finals

In '96, they pushed a 64 win Sonics team to 7 games, there is ABSOLUTELY no shame in that.

So, basically, like I said, the NBA was competitive as hell in their era and yeah, maybe they could've won one or two of those series, but if you look at who they lost to when they lost to them, it makes sense.

Even the Golden State team in '88 was led by 2 Hall of Famers on it and were coached by a Hall of Fame coach

It's not like they were losing to The Clippers or some thing

@Eric Brooks be watching players like Jalen Brunson cook on some “why is this nikka cooking like this” shyt

He just can’t be cold and exemplary of the talent in the league today it has to be that he don’t stack up to some 80’s/90’s point guards who had to post up past the timeline

All tight because the game passed him by

Dude, the commissioner of the NBA just came out & said that they changed the rules to make it easier for smaller players like Steph Curry to look good, give it a rest.

Bro, you don’t know what you are talking about.

The Jazz were losing to bottom feeders early in the playoffs. Also it was Stockton and Malone, two top 75 players.

Also free agency wasn’t a major thing until the mid 90s. Utah finally made it to the finals in 1997. Do the math.

And Utah had some Really good black players. Jeff Malone joined in 1990 after being an all star.

so he coached Robinson and Elliot for two seasons?

Your post mentioned Dennis Rodman who wouldn’t join until 1994. You gotta fall back.

Look at my post to Rhakim, they were losing to Hall of Famers & teams that beat Hall of Famers

They didn't lose to ONE scrub team.

The Golden State team they lost to had a guy on the Dream Team, a Hall of Famer, who was considered the 2nd best SG to MJ for most of the '90s, and a Hall of Fame coach in Don Nelson.

And no, Rodman joined San Antonio in '93, not '94.

And still David Robinson & Sean Elliott did have a Hall of Fame coach. If they actually won something, he probably would've stuck around longer.