Steph entered the NBA in 09.. Bron 03 they both have 4 rings
- Thread starter ROFL_GUY
- Start date
kawhi hoed bron
So u went into this long soliloquy about greatness just to prove my point with a million reasons why Bron is better than Steph but still ignoring that Steph leads him where it matters most. Thus it will be a debate which was my point from the start. And just like you I've been had Bron as number 2 so you beating a dead horse. But everything you posted still aint proving that it won't be a debate for some in the future if Steph should be ranked higher going off of head to head.I noticed you completely dodged my request, so I'll do it for you:
Definition of GREAT
notably large in size : huge; of a kind characterized by relative largeness —used in plant and animal names; elaborate, ample… See the full definitionwww.merriam-webster.com
(Since I know goddamn well you ain't clicking that link, here's a screenshot)
Clearly, LeBron is "superior" and "remarkably skilled", but since the other letters in G.O.A.T. are "O" "A" and "T", the argument is "to what degree is LeBron superior and remarkably skilled" and "how does this degree measure up against other players".
This really isn't a question I have any interest in answering; I DON'T consider LeBron the G.O.A.T. I have stated publicly many times that I believe Jordan to be the G.O.A.T, but that I do believe LeBron is second, and that if he does win 2 more titles, I'll call him the G.O.A.T.
That being said, I want to draw your attention to the fact the definition of "great" said nothing about "winning when it matters most", even though Bron has done this four times.
For some reason, fans like yourself want to count LOSSES, and that's not a standard by which we have measured literally any other player. Jerry West has 9 losses, but is the logo of the league. Kobe lost more games in the Finals than Shaq, but the myths surrounding Kobe puts him on a higher level in a lot of people's minds. Magic Johnson LITERALLY LOST MORE GAMES THAN HE WON in the Finals (24-26), but nobody cares.
I know what your response will be-- "we don't put any of these players in the G.O.A.T conversation". To which I would respond, this thread is about Steph and LeBron. It's not about the G.O.A.T conversation.
So, context matters when we discuss Steph vs LeBron. Here are true statements:
-LeBron has NEVER been the second best player on any of his teams, and this includes teams LeBron "stacked the deck". He was always the clear cut best player. You cannot say the same for Steph Curry for two of his championships. I know Steph stans like to pretend he and Durant were even, but the numbers don't support that, nor do the Finals MVPs. It's a Shaq and Kobe situation-- Steph, like Kobe, was INTEGRAL to winning those rings, but Durant, like Shaq, was the best player. This is no slight to Steph, it's just that Durant was the best player.
- LeBron's team, when healthy, bested Steph's team when Steph was the best player. Further, he took a healthy Warriors team to 6 games when two of the teams best players were injured.
- LeBron has outplayed Steph Curry in EVERY SINGLE FINALS MATCHUP. If Steph were the better player, Steph would have the numbers showing that. He doesn't, therefore he's not.
- In fact, Kyrie Irving matched Steph in every matchup. I know that sounds shocking, but I assure you, it's true. How can Steph be better than LeBron, when LeBron's sidekick was better than Steph in the Finals?
- When LeBron had a relatively healthy team, and Steph's was injured, LeBron made sure Steph literally didn't make the playoffs. This is important, because it shows that Steph cannot carry the Warriors the way in which LeBron carried the Cavaliers, and that matters when you're trying to say one player was better than the other. You could argue that Steph was playing by himself, to which I would respond, that's exactly what LeBron did in 2015, but for some reason that counts, and LeBron shooting a three in Steph's eye kicking him out of the playoffs doesn't. Funny how that works.
So to conclude, Steph has ALWAYS had the benefit of playing with a better team, or a healthy team in critical moments. This ain't Steph's fault by any means. Sometimes that's just how the dominoes fall. But this matters when you're trying to say Steph is even on LeBron's level, let alone better than LeBron. LeBron has done more with less, and when everything was even, beaten Steph head up. Nobody seriously counts the Durant years. Only perople with an agenda do, especially because if you want to count those Warrior teams, then that argument becomes a LeBron/Durant one.
Well if that's the point why have we been debating Bron vs Jordan Bron vs Kobe. You can't compare different positions? You can't compare head to head? So what can you compare then bruh?
At the end of the day to be the first loser or the last loser still makes you a loser bruh. No matter if you went further or not And we can't take those 3 seasons out cause they happened. Nah, he would have a better legacy if he had won more Finals bruh. No matter if he played stacked teams or lost when he should have won (2010) a losing record ain't a good look no matter how it's spun. And I don't need you to tell me why he lost cause I watched those same Finals too.
That question has already been answered. There's nothing wrong with comparing different positions. But claiming the head-to-head matters in that comparison is stupid if they aren't even guarding each other.
Just answer this question. Do you think Duncan's 2007 and 2014 Finals wins over Bron's teams prove that Duncan is better than Bron? Was there ANYONE who watched either of those series and felt, "The big takeaway here is that Tim Duncan is a better basketball player right now than LeBron James." Please be honest.
Do you think Kobe was better than Reggie in 2000?
Do you think Kobe was better than Iverson in 2001?
Do you think Steph was better than Bron in 2015?
Do you think Steph was better than Bron in 2018?
Be serious with your answers.
Your reading comprehension is for shyt.
What does this "first loser" shyt even mean? That wasn't the question at all. PLEASE try and answer my question. It's not hard.
If LeBron hadn't drug shyt teams to the Finals in 2007, 2015, and 2018, then he would no longer have a losing Finals record against any of the players mentioned in that post.
Would that give him a better legacy, yes or no? If "head-to-head Finals record" matters so much, then doesn't it seem pretty stupid that you can improve your head-to-head record by playing WORSE?
In 07 Duncan probably was still better then Bron. And if we talking overall then yeah Kobe was better then Reggie and AI or are you just talking Finals? Ion care how you spin it the OG post was about Steph and Bron having 4 rings and with Steph entering the league 6 years later and beating him for 3 of them that will mean something to someone in the future.
But you playing an if game bruh. Point blank is he did drag his team to the Finals and lost thus bringing his record to the 4-6 it is. It's great to go to a gang of Finals but it's even greater if you win more then you lose.
I swear you can't follow the conversation for shyt. Of course we're talking the Finals, what part of "head-to-head" don't you understand? I'll ask again.
Did Duncan's performances in the 2007 and 2014 Finals prove that right then and there, he was better than Bron?
Did Kobe's performance in the 2000 Finals prove that at that exact moment, he was better than Reggie?
Did the 2001 Finals prove to everyone that Kobe was better than Iverson?
Did Steph's performances in 2015, 2017, and 2018 prove he was better than Bron?
They shouldn't be tough questions, because the entire premise of your argument requires you to have an indisputable, ironclad answer.
Of course there will always be people that don't know what they're talking about-- look at this thread for evidence of that.
But there will always be people like me who was not only there, but DO know what they're talking about to correct those people.
FACT: Kyrie outplayed or matched Steph Curry head-to-head:
FACT: LeBron was the best player on the Cavs:
This is a simple transitive property of math: If LeBron was the best player on his team, and Kyrie outplayed or matched Steph, then LeBron is greater than Steph.
I don't care what people "debate"-- debates typically have a right answer. Anyone arguing Steph was even equal to LeBron has to account for the fact that he was barely equal to LeBron's sidekick.
U know u preaching to the choir dont u? I''ve NEVER thought Steph was as great or greater than Bron but talking heads will debate the two when they hang em up especially if Steph retires with more rings.Of course there will always be people that don't know what they're talking about-- look at this thread for evidence of that.
But there will always be people like me who was not only there, but DO know what they're talking about to correct those people.
FACT: Kyrie outplayed or matched Steph Curry head-to-head:
FACT: LeBron was the best player on the Cavs:
This is a simple transitive property of math: If LeBron was the best player on his team, and Kyrie outplayed or matched Steph, then LeBron is greater than Steph.
I don't care what people "debate"-- debates typically have a right answer. Anyone arguing Steph was even equal to LeBron has to account for the fact that he was barely equal to LeBron's sidekick.
Reggie-- I post for the public. I'm responding to you, yes, but the point I was making when I said
...was that those people who will have that conversation will have to deal with people like me.
Can I level with you?
I've been a LeBron fan since he was in high school. I actually have his mixtapes before he made it to the league on DVD
For at least that long, I have been making arguments in favor of LeBron. Being a Lakers fan that grew up in Los Angeles, I have received non-stop vitriol from guys that were on my side regarding our favorite team (the Lakers), but vehemently against me on LeBron. For at least the past twenty years, I have felt alone in my defense of the truth.
When guys like Nick Wright hit the scene, I felt a kinship with dude, because he was dispensing the same kind of truth about James as I was. I then realized that I wasn't alone, and recently, I've seen a large swath of people doing the work I'd been doing for like 15 years.
I said that to say, people are waking up to the myths that surround basketball players. Jordan is even getting exposed in a way I thought I'd never see. I was saying 1-9 before LeBron won his first title-- do you know how much shyt I got for saying that? Breh, you wouldn't believe. Being surrounded by Lakers fans, and most importantly, Kobe stans, I had to hear it every goddamn day. They hated that LeBron was getting the Jordan comparisons over Kobe, who was damned near a photo copy of MJ.
Maybe there were always nikkas like me, and because I was doing this before social media was a real thing, I just didn't realize and couldn't connect with them. But now, I see that isn't the case.
You say there will be people that have the Steph/LeBron conversation? I say there will be more people that debunk it, because it isn't a real conversation. I've seen it with my own eyes. I'm elated brehs like @Osmosis, @Rhakim, @VegasCAC, @murksiderock and others stay kicking knowledge on these subjects. There's a reason everyone that opposes them are deep in the red on this board, and that's because real nikkas know the deal.
They provide legitimate analysis using numbers, videos and what actually occurred to make their points. This is my entire M.O.
So I'm like Thanos after he hit the snap: I can finally rest
Similar threads
