Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Official Thread)

[MartyMcFly]

This is just where we disagree, the thing is they didn't end up in different places. Kylo is still first order and the resistance (with rey poe finn) is still the resistance at the end. There's no progression of story, just a re-telling of the same characters arc(s). There's very little actual advancement because the characters weren't properly developed in the first place. There's no reaction or consequence to their choices by the end. That's why I keep reiterating that was just subversion on RJ part, there was very little "new" in terms of advancement of story and character overall (aside from Luke).

That's the thing though. Him being in the first order isn't a sign of him not changing. His viewpoint from movie one to the end of movie two has changed. His status has changed within the first order. That's progression. Rey is in a different place at the end of last Jedi than she is at the end of force awakens, as she should be. As is Poe. Even Finn, if you squint lol, is in a different place where he goes from wanting to fight purely for one person (Rey) to fighting for a group and realizing the totality is greater than the one. Or as Spock would say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If you want to argue execution of said arcs, that's fine, but all these characters are in different places by the time the credits roll, even if they have the flimsiest of starting points

 

[TobiOT]

Read this whole thread

Russian alt-right Incel bots at it again or RARIB for short

 

[I AM WARHOL]

The #1 biggest mistake Disney made was opening the closed book that was the skywalker saga. 2 trilogies and a completed prophecy. It was done. When the news came out that Disney was planning on making more star wars movies, you can find my quote on the coli saying this story should be either long before or way after the end of the Skywalker saga because anything attached to it would undermine the significance of the first 2 trilogies.

Once it was announced that TFA was gonna be a direct sequel 30 years later, I was disappointed but I thought they could take one of the more popular EU storylines and tweak it since most laymen star wars fans dont necessarily read all the canon ff, and the superfans who do, would love to see it on the big screen. Win win.

Disney proceeds to do literally the worst case scenario. They made a trilogy that absolutely eradicates any sense of accomplishment from the first 2 trilogies while character assassinating the foundational Characters of star wars while creating a character that can only be described as woman space jesus.
They execute a trilogy who's story is less coherent than a 12 year olds fan fiction because a complete lack of vision and direction. They let 2 directors take one of the most epic stories and turn it into a pissing contest while just shytting on any established force rules. In one corner, you have a director who doesn't have an original creative bone in his body. And in the other corner, you have a director that seems more concerned with stroking his ego than making a star wars movie.

Imho, this was the very worst possible outcome for star wars

 

[HHR]

I think KK's decision to start from scratch, by "killing" the extended universe, is a pretty brave one. Now, it ultimately kind of failed because of execution, but the decision to let different storytellers take the saga in creative directions is an ambitious one, especially with THIS property.

TFA didn't really take advantage of this, but TLJ definitely did. It's just too bad the final chapter wasn't allowed to as well. Whether that's Disney wanting something safe, KK getting cold feet or JJ just doing what JJ does, who knows. It's probably a bit of everything.

 

[HHR]

And as awkward as the Cantobite (?) detour in TLJ is, the one nugget out of that that could've been interesting was the idea of war profiteering in this universe.

Especially when JJ needed Palpatine to have an entire fleet of planet killing ships

 

[MartyMcFly]

And as awkward as the Cantobite (?) detour in TLJ is, the one nugget out of that that could've been interesting was the idea of war profiteering in this universe.

Especially when JJ needed Palpatine to have an entire fleet of planet killing ships

I mean the one question my boy keeps asking is "how did he build an entire fleet in secret while being a clone of himself" there's your answer right there, like you said.

 

[BillBanneker]

That's the thing though. Him being in the first order isn't a sign of him not changing. His viewpoint from movie one to the end of movie two has changed. His status has changed within the first order. That's progression. Rey is in a different place at the end of last Jedi than she is at the end of force awakens, as she should be. As is Poe. Even Finn, if you squint lol, is in a different place where he goes from wanting to fight purely for one person (Rey) to fighting for a group and realizing the totality is greater than the one. Or as Spock would say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If you want to argue execution of said arcs, that's fine, but all these characters are in different places by the time the credits roll, even if they have the flimsiest of starting points

I'm looking at this from a Star Wars saga (trilogy) view. The difference is ( I think) you're seeing TLJ as a isolated film, and not a part of trilogy.

It's just not about Kylo staying in the first order, its the purpose of the first order, and the difference of it now that Kylo is the supreme leader. The first order didn't change with Kylo's leadership, Kylo's character arc didn't change; the plot just required snoke to be dead to shock the audience. There isn't anything new, just a mild ret-con of his position in the first order. Rey is similar to that as well, there isn't a defined view of her purpose at the end, her views on what the jedi are or what they should be. Same for Poe/Finn, they make mistakes and big sacrifice plays and the resistance is still there.

That's just not progression IMO for a trilogy film.

 

[MartyMcFly]

I'm looking at this from a Star Wars saga (trilogy) view. The difference is ( I think) you're seeing TLJ as a isolated film, and not a part of trilogy.

It's just not about Kylo staying in the first order, its the purpose of the first order, and the difference of it now that Kylo is the supreme leader. The first order didn't change with Kylo's leadership, Kylo's character arc didn't change; the plot just required snoke to be dead to shock the audience. There isn't anything new, just a mild ret-con of his position in the first order. Rey is similar to that as well, there isn't a defined view of her purpose at the end, her views on what the jedi are or what they should be. Same for Poe/Finn, they make mistakes and big sacrifice plays and the resistance is still there.

That's just not progression IMO for a trilogy film.

Its only not progression for a trilogy because of this movie, which effectively redid all those same arcs over again lol. And yeah I always look at things as individuals. if the movie doesn't work on its own first and foremost, then ive already got issues with it. Even when you're telling a larger part of a story, the movie has to work on its own as a complete narrative while merely informing the rest of the story. Middle chapters are the hardest to do because they're the 2nd act and 2nd acts are supposed to be cliffhangers and put the protagonists farther up the tree, that's now on fire. It's one reason Dark Knight Rises doesn't work for me because on its own, even without being a part of a trilogy, it just doesn't work. As a part of a whole story? Sure, it completes things and feels of a piece. But by itself? It's a swing and a miss

 

[MajesticLion]

At this point the best thing that could be said about a lot of these movies is that they inadvertently help encourage more people to read books.

 

[Json]

The #1 biggest mistake Disney made was opening the closed book that was the skywalker saga. 2 trilogies and a completed prophecy. It was done. When the news came out that Disney was planning on making more star wars movies, you can find my quote on the coli saying this story should be either long before or way after the end of the Skywalker saga because anything attached to it would undermine the significance of the first 2 trilogies.

Once it was announced that TFA was gonna be a direct sequel 30 years later, I was disappointed but I thought they could take one of the more popular EU storylines and tweak it since most laymen star wars fans dont necessarily read all the canon ff, and the superfans who do, would love to see it on the big screen. Win win.

Disney proceeds to do literally the worst case scenario. They made a trilogy that absolutely eradicates any sense of accomplishment from the first 2 trilogies while character assassinating the foundational Characters of star wars while creating a character that can only be described as woman space jesus.
They execute a trilogy who's story is less coherent than a 12 year olds fan fiction because a complete lack of vision and direction. They let 2 directors take one of the most epic stories and turn it into a pissing contest while just shytting on any established force rules. In one corner, you have a director who doesn't have an original creative bone in his body. And in the other corner, you have a director that seems more concerned with stroking his ego than making a star wars movie.

Imho, this was the very worst possible outcome for star wars

Disney relies on nostalgia. They need the imagery of the OG trilogy to make buying Star Wars for 4 billion worth it.


Otherwise they could just made a new sci-fi series and saved the money.

I’d be surprised if the next story moves beyond this or just retreats into the past.

 

[Drew Wonder]

Wrote this in the Spoiler thread

The movie was peak JJ Abrams, for better or worse. Heavy on nostalgia that tows the line between genuinely sincere and shameless pandering. Fast paced plot that distracts your brain from a lot of things that don't really make sense if you spend too much time thinking about it. Quippy dialogue and a whole lot of McGuffins.

Having thought about it I think it's a solid, entertaining film on its own but a bad Star Wars film. The irony is it spends so much time trying to "correct" the Last Jedi while also setting up elements that are just as damaging if not moreso to the Star Wars lore than anything Rian Johnson came up with.

Spoiler

I'm sorry but I can't get over him bringing Palpatine back. It cheapens Vader's sacrifice and him fulfilling the prophecy as the chosen one. I may have been able to accept it more if there had been ample setup throughout the new trilogy or if JJ and Terrio had thought of a better explanation but they simply throw it at us and asked the audience not to question it too much. It was way too lazy of an approach to such a huge plot point that had major ramifications for the entire saga.

Also, it's abundantly clear now that this is how it went down.

The Force Awakens: This is my movie!
The Last Jedi: Fukk your movie JJ!
The Rise of Skywalker: Oh yeah? Well fukk your movie Rian!

And that's ultimately why the Disney trilogy failed imo. Two directors with different visions who couldn't put their egos aside and make something cohesive. One director should've made all three films

 

[Json]

The Force Awakens: This is my movie!
The Last Jedi: Fukk your movie JJ!
The Rise of Skywalker: Oh yeah? Well fukk your movie Rian!

And that's ultimately why the Disney trilogy failed imo. Two directors with different visions who couldn't put their egos aside and make something cohesive. One director should've made all three films

Abrams definitely had ideas about how to follow up TFA and Johnson didn’t bite.

Since the middle part of the trilogy is so important to escalating the tension, Abrams just went with his original idea instead of picking up on Johnson.

Rian definitely intended for Kylo to rise to big bad guy.

 

[gluvnast]

The fanboys complaining about TLJ not moving forward are mostly not caring at all about character development or overall theme and rather they want fan service which ironically is what's people are complaining about with TROS.

TLJ was the most character developed film out of the trilogy. It's too bad that JJ tossed all that out the bushes and those characters were back at square one.

In TLJ, Poe went from a hot head, egoist who wanted to be the hero and because of his insubordination nearly decimated the entire Resistance to realizing the lesson of battling for another day and looking at the bigger picture. He was positioned to become a responsible leader and those were the tough lessons he took for granted initially.

Finn was going from that bumbling idiot to almost about to sacrifice his own life so the Resistance could escape. That selfless service was what made Rose fall in love with him and had Finn for the first and now ONLY time he caught feelings for someone else than Rey. He practically ignored Rey when she return because he was comforting Rose.

Rey learned about legacy. She accepted that her lineage wasn't of royalty and she was blessed with force given gifts. She resisted the temptation of the dark side and chose the light and took the Jedi Texts to master her Jedi skills.

Kylo Ren also learned about legacy and rejected his lineage completely to include striving to be like Vader and embraced the dark fully to become supreme commander of the First Order. It's also the first time conflict was inside him.

Luke, to people were angry had the biggest arc because he went into exile (keep mind JJ put him there) for the failure of Kylo Ren. He wanted to live up to that of Kenobi and Yoda, but the very subtle fact was that Luke also never gotten rid of the bit of darkness that was within him. He was still too much like his father Anakin. So him quitting is very MUCH a Luke Skywalker move. It was only when Yoda showed him that being a Jedi isn't within the text books but within him was when Luke fully understood. Him force projecting himself galaxies away was vital in the fact that had he not did that, the Resistance would of been no more and become one with the force is always the ultimate achievement. That concludes Luke the man's chapter, but his legacy will continue as those of the Resistance would of told stories of that day of how Luke in a God-like way prevented the First Order from destroying the last of the Resistance.

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

Reason 200 they dropped the ball with Finn in this trilogy



Finn easily had the most interesting/fresh story, but they never gave a fukk about it.

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

Wrote this in the Spoiler thread

The movie was peak JJ Abrams, for better or worse. Heavy on nostalgia that tows the line between genuinely sincere and shameless pandering. Fast paced plot that distracts your brain from a lot of things that don't really make sense if you spend too much time thinking about it. Quippy dialogue and a whole lot of McGuffins.

Having thought about it I think it's a solid, entertaining film on its own but a bad Star Wars film. The irony is it spends so much time trying to "correct" the Last Jedi while also setting up elements that are just as damaging if not moreso to the Star Wars lore than anything Rian Johnson came up with.

Spoiler

I'm sorry but I can't get over him bringing Palpatine back. It cheapens Vader's sacrifice and him fulfilling the prophecy as the chosen one. I may have been able to accept it more if there had been ample setup throughout the new trilogy or if JJ and Terrio had thought of a better explanation but they simply throw it at us and asked the audience not to question it too much. It was way too lazy of an approach to such a huge plot point that had major ramifications for the entire saga.

Also, it's abundantly clear now that this is how it went down.

The Force Awakens: This is my movie!
The Last Jedi: Fukk your movie JJ!
The Rise of Skywalker: Oh yeah? Well fukk your movie Rian!

And that's ultimately why the Disney trilogy failed imo. Two directors with different visions who couldn't put their egos aside and make something cohesive. One director should've made all three films