Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Official Thread)

[philmonroe]

I'm watching Force Awakens on Netflixwith my little sister.

She knows nothing about Star Wars.

She has been going in on Finn. Calling him all sorts of useless, bumbling idiot, etc

And she hates, HATES, HATES Rey.
Rey fixes the ship "Mhmm of course"
ad infinitum.

"She can't be this perfect"

"Why is she so perfect? Maybe if I had no friends, no parents I'd be perfect too."

"She got no light" in reaction to Maz scene

"Is she gonna find peace in the forest?"

"Making herself the victim. Again."

Comedy fukking gold

She doesn't fukk with this stuff at all and saw RIGHT THROUGH the bullshyt.

But people still want to deny they fukked Finn in this film and Rey is a Mary Sue

Honeslty your sister sounds like the stereotype of a chick that post on lsa blaming exoticals and white women for her not getting a black dude lol.

 

[philmonroe]

Just came back from seeing this and was entertained throughout . I haven't looked through all the thread pages here, but I'm not sure why this film turned out to be so divisive. I thought there were a lot of memorable scenes and moments that stood out, some unexpected. Some not.

I think it becomes "divisive" from what I see is super nerds trying to dikk measure their Star Wars knowledge to folks that mainly watch the movies and you get tow different groups arguing their point is better. I see this shyt all the time I find it funny similar to cats that argue about phones and shyt. You like/dislike something cool we can disagree lol. It ain't that serious but I guess when folks think this is their shyt they know nobody going to tell them shyt.

 

[Axolotl]

Main character is another word for protagonist. If you don't believe me Google it.

I've already listed an example of a protagonist that isn't the most important character to the narrative.

Protagonist is a point of view character who the audience follows. It just so happens that usually that character is also the most important character in the narrative but that doesn't have to be true. Usually that character is also a hero but that doesn't have to be true either. Either way The Last Jedi has three protagonists who's view point we follow.

Then you and I are getting different google results

Writers tend to use the terms for protagonist and main character interchangeably. In fact, if asked to define one of these terms, we would probably come right back with the other term as our quickest explanation. And why not? Both describe a story’s central character, right? Not necessarily.

Before determining the Protagonist of the story, it helps to first define what the Story Goal is. The Story Goal is something everyone in the story is concerned with. The successful achievement of this goal will resolve the story’s central problem.

The Protagonist is defined as the character pursuing the Story Goal. The Antagonist is defined as the character preventing the Story Goal. The Main Character is defined as the character through whose eyes we experience the story.

it is important to separate out the concepts of Protagonist and Main Character. When stories are broken or feel incomplete, the reason is usually because the argument being made by the author is inconsistent or illogical. Blending the logical driver of the story (the Protagonist) with the emotional driver (the Main Character) can lead to this confusion. Sure, they can be combined as they have been in many great stories, but not always.

Example: Shawshank Redemption
Protagonist-Andy
Antagonist- Warden Norton
Main Character- Red


Protagonist and Main Character— Same Person? The Answer May Transform Your Story! - Helping Writers Become Authors
The Confusion between Main Character and Protagonist

Were just going to have to agree to disagree my friend

 

[Black Nate Grey]

Your sister sounds like a c*nt.


Not defending tlj, i just hate people who talk through movies.

Ive seen this movie 5 times so I don't care.

You sound uber defensive though.

 

[Art Barr]

Your sister sounds like a c*nt.


Not defending tlj, i just hate people who talk through movies.

What hood you from breh.
If you not at the movies premiere.
nikkaz is talking.
Sheit if the movie airs on a tv...talkin is always legal.
I don't care if that shyt is a new bootleg.

Art Barr

 

[TheGodling]

No way I'm reading all that shyt.

My point is that Lucas was freestyling major plot points during the OG trilogy, too.

Yes, and 40 years later they should know better.

 

[winb83]

Then you and I are getting different google results

Writers tend to use the terms for protagonist and main character interchangeably. In fact, if asked to define one of these terms, we would probably come right back with the other term as our quickest explanation. And why not? Both describe a story’s central character, right? Not necessarily.

Before determining the Protagonist of the story, it helps to first define what the Story Goal is. The Story Goal is something everyone in the story is concerned with. The successful achievement of this goal will resolve the story’s central problem.

The Protagonist is defined as the character pursuing the Story Goal. The Antagonist is defined as the character preventing the Story Goal. The Main Character is defined as the character through whose eyes we experience the story.

it is important to separate out the concepts of Protagonist and Main Character. When stories are broken or feel incomplete, the reason is usually because the argument being made by the author is inconsistent or illogical. Blending the logical driver of the story (the Protagonist) with the emotional driver (the Main Character) can lead to this confusion. Sure, they can be combined as they have been in many great stories, but not always.

Example: Shawshank Redemption
Protagonist-Andy
Antagonist- Warden Norton
Main Character- Red


Protagonist and Main Character— Same Person? The Answer May Transform Your Story! - Helping Writers Become Authors
The Confusion between Main Character and Protagonist

Were just going to have to agree to disagree my friend

I get the attitude that Finn should have been a Jedi. A lot of black fans, myself not really included, feel that way. People trying to act like he's not a protagonist because he's not a Jedi are being ridiculous. He, Rey, and Poe are working toward the same goal the success of the rebellion. He might be a reluctant hero but that doesn't change the fact that they're all on the same side working toward the same goal.

I really don't care that he's not a Jedi. Han Solo wasn't one either and didn't really matter there. People have been upset about Finn since they saw the trailers of TFA with him wielding a light saber and assumed he was a Jedi and it was revealed he wasn't.

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

All the various miserable c*nts who hate this movie for all their various inconsequential reasons, only make it more enjoyable for me

 

[HHR]

And that's cool. But those of us into this shyt realize none of this makes a lick of damn sense contextually.

Contextually in relation to what? I'm entirely unfamiliar with any extended universe material, but nothing about Luke's arc between RotJ and TLJ strikes me as an affront to the character. Again, this is based solely on the films, which I think is the only fair way to judge something like this. Even people who are the very embodiment of hope can themselves suffer a crisis of faith.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

Contextually in relation to what? I'm entirely unfamiliar with any extended universe material, but nothing about Luke's arc between RotJ and TLJ strikes me as an affront to the character. Again, this is based solely on the films, which I think is the only fair way to judge something like this. Even people who are the very embodiment of hope can themselves suffer a crisis of faith.

Solely films:

End of Episode 6: against everyone's advice Luke tries redeeming Darth Vader. Responsible for the deaths of millions, possibly in the billions if you count Alderaan, including Luke's "parents", his mentor and some of his childhood friends. Luke believes in him and is willing to sacrifice his life for this.

Start of Episode 7: Luke is on an island waiting to die, after he has failed to set up a new Jedi Order. His NEPHEW turned on him after he caught Luke considering MURDERING HIM IN HIS SLEEP because he sensed darkness in his heart.

Think about that: we went from a man who gave his life to redeem his father who ACTUALLY WAS EVIL to a man who considered murdering a teenager in his sleep over POSSIBLY BECOMING EVIL (the son of his best friends and his own nephew).

I'm not saying you have to have a problem with that, but I'm at people who don't understand why others might have a problem with this.

I remember when when Episode II dropped people were complaining that Anakin, an actual teen, had turned into an arrogant little shyt over 10 years

 

[ahomeplateslugger]

None of RJs "exciting" changes did anything for the story on a fundamental level. Nothing changed in any meaningful way. Rey and Kylo still gonna fight. Poe and Finn gonna do resistance side quest things.

That's one of my biggest issues with the movie. Story telling wise we didn't go ANYWHERE. Luke and snoke are dead but that was gonna occur at some point. So the movie spent a hour shytting on Luke and 10 minutes building snoke for a cheap pay off.

We are character arc wise in the exact same position we were in at the beginning of Act 3 of TFA. Rey is a nascent Jedi in opposition to Kylo. Finn manned up and is fighting the first order.

The only new shyt was forceskype. But Kylo is such a shytty villian that I dont give a fukk whether he finds redemption or gets killed.

RJ could've took this shyt anywhere. Yet he decided to steal ESB and ROTJ scenes switch the reveals and pretend like he did something new. FOH

You done trolling in this thread? It’s getting bad.

 

[winb83]

You done trolling in this thread? It’s getting bad.

Given that you haven't actually argued anything in that post and just dismissed it as trolling you'd be more in line with that accusation.

The movie shuffled the pieces around but the plot barely advanced at all. Kylo killed Snoke and took his spot, Rey came back, and Luke died. Those are all the major happenings of the movie. 2+ hours and the plot barely moved.

 

[philmonroe]

Solely films:

End of Episode 6: against everyone's advice Luke tries redeeming Darth Vader. Responsible for the deaths of millions, possibly in the billions if you count Alderaan, including Luke's "parents", his mentor and some of his childhood friends. Luke believes in him and is willing to sacrifice his life for this.

Start of Episode 7: Luke is on an island waiting to die, after he has failed to set up a new Jedi Order. His NEPHEW turned on him after he caught Luke considering MURDERING HIM IN HIS SLEEP because he sensed darkness in his heart.

Think about that: we went from a man who gave his life to redeem his father who ACTUALLY WAS EVIL to a man who considered murdering a teenager in his sleep over POSSIBLY BECOMING EVIL (the son of his best friends and his own nephew).

I'm not saying you have to have a problem with that, but I'm at people who don't understand why others might have a problem with this.

I remember when when Episode II dropped people were complaining that Anakin, an actual teen, had turned into an arrogant little shyt over 10 years

You doing too much typing for something that can be explained as simple as sometimes people and their views on shyt change.

 

[Eddy Gordo]

Contextually in relation to what? I'm entirely unfamiliar with any extended universe material, but nothing about Luke's arc between RotJ and TLJ strikes me as an affront to the character. Again, this is based solely on the films, which I think is the only fair way to judge something like this. Even people who are the very embodiment of hope can themselves suffer a crisis of faith.

So your telling me the Luke from the end of ROTJ would let his nephew (whom he trained) kill his best friend and attempt kill his sister and Luke's response would be suck milk from a brontosaurus titties. You find that consistent story telling?

You can sell the audience on Luke having a moment of weakness sure. What you can't do is say the man failed and said fukk it and went to go die. It lacks context when people had previously seen Luke constantly attempting things he was told was impossible. You have to SHOW his fall/change of mindset in a more defining way. Don't tell the audience show them. Have them fall with him.


Another one is Rey going to redeem Kylo. It feels forced for the hero worship theme the movie is going for(as well as to get to another subversion by mirroring ROTJ). This dude kills han, beats your friend into a coma, and blew up planets. This all happened like in the last week. But all of a sudden she's convinced he can be redeemed. By what reasoning movie? Luke redeeming Vader? This plotline worked for Luke because that wasn't Lukes objective until Vader became dad. Lukes redemption of Vader works because they are family. That shyt would've felt dumb if Luke was putting his life in the hands of some random stranger instead of trying to have faith in his father. But the movie is like fukk it Rey's retarded for the next hour.

Leia is another one. If Jedi could do that why didn't Anakin and Obi just follow Grevious in ROTS. They could have just flown after him and had somebody pick them up in space.

Also if Leia is FS why does it matter at the end of the movie that there is a cave in. Leia could just them shyts.

Rey being a nobody is another story point that could've been executed better. Sure it's cool and pushes they anyman can be a hero narrative. But why does she know random force powers? They wanna get away from the Skywalker's cool. But your Everyman is more gifted than the chosen ones how? Anakin and Luke actually TRAINED for their abilities.

Let's get to Finn. Finn is a former stormtrooper. Half way through his (repeat of last time) arc DJ proceeds to lecture him on how there's no good guys or bad guys in a war. How everyone is reasonable from thier point of view. Finn is former STORMTROOPER. He was a bad guy. HE SHOULD BE THE ONE LECTURING OTHERS THIS LESSON.

Also one of themes of this movie is anyone can be hero. Roses sister is called a hero by Poe and Leia for her heroic self sacrifice. Rey is a "nobody" on the heroes journey. Holdo also performs a heroic self sacrifice to save the resistance. So why is it when Finn is about to make his heroic sacrifice and be the Everyman hero he gets blocked? This movie doesn't know what it wants to be.

This man RJ was so busy trying to be edgy and subversive he subverted a theme in his own damn movie. The characters don't seem to be acting in typical (or even dumb star wars) human mindsets. Actions taken are specifically taken to get us through a ridiculous plot. And the ridiculous plot was specifically taken to get us to OT repeats just for RJ to put new twists in shyt.

And for some fans of the series it just wasn't worth it.

Edit: Also RJ could've wrote literally anything but he wrote a meta movie deconstructing star wars, yet stole almost the entire movie plot of ESB and ROTJ with different twists. fukk RJ.

Next time write a original movie with a plot and some character development ya hack.

 

[FLATOP]

Finally saw this

Weird movie.

JJ itroducing and hyping up characters then immediately killing them the next movie.


bytching out Luke.

Luke dying

Rey not killing Kylo

How many suicide attacks are these rebels gonna do? The got no other strategies breh

Finn really trying to murk himself


Setting up a Kylo Rey romance

Edit:

"Im two years, find out the secret origins of...
Supreme Leader Snoke
Maz Kanata
The Knights of Ren
Reys parents "

All wiped from the slate

And now we enter presumably the final entry in the trilogy with no real intrigue or mystery. Its ridiculous