JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
in
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Official Thread)
- Thread starter StraxStrax
- Start date
-
- Tags
- air bud barbie judging amy
You can probably throw this idea out of the window. They aren't going to introduce Thrawn, you might get a character like him, but it won't play out exactly the same. It also doesn't look like this trilogy will really center any of it's movies around non-force related characters except possibly Finn (who might be force sensitive anyway by the next movie)
Pinyapplesuckas
He's A Good Man
he just happened to be lowest on the totem pole. i feel like all the actors involved in those sequels suffered. Natalie Portman didnt seem like shyt and she's a great actress... really only Liam Neeson and Obi Wan were half decent....Outside of the obvious relative to his age, I don't know that Hayden had much to work with. The way the story unfolded relative to what we know now just didn't work
Hayden is an avg to below avg actor and he was given trash dialogue that he couldnt do any justice to
Yeah I think Del Toro being Thrawn is plausible but I'd say most likely he's a Knight Of Ren.
It's guarenteed we will see a Thrawn like main antagonist at some point in the next several decades though.
IMO Hayden was perfect for what the script asked of him.
He was a whiny spoiled brat because that's how George saw Anakin. Hayden pulled that off. He was a tougher version of that in Episode III, and again Hayden pulled it off.
Most of the complaints I see about Anakin are things that not even supposed to be in his character. He's not supposed to be as smooth with the ladies as Han/Lando. He's not supposed to be as good natured as Luke. He's not supposed to be as controlled with his powers as young Obi-Wan was etc.
He was supposed to be a dude fukked up in the head by being born into slavery and having to desert his mother in that hellhole who at the same time feels his power growing more than anyone around him ("Twice the pride, double the fall").
People have an idealistic/nostalgic view of Darth Vader.
He was a bully who at the same time was being controlled by another man (
). He tortured princesses, his son, snitched on his son multiple times to the Emperor and then threatened to do the same to his daughter.
You don't get there from being a good natured charming confident young man, Anakin had to be fukked up before fully turning.
He was a whiny spoiled brat because that's how George saw Anakin. Hayden pulled that off. He was a tougher version of that in Episode III, and again Hayden pulled it off.
Most of the complaints I see about Anakin are things that not even supposed to be in his character. He's not supposed to be as smooth with the ladies as Han/Lando. He's not supposed to be as good natured as Luke. He's not supposed to be as controlled with his powers as young Obi-Wan was etc.
He was supposed to be a dude fukked up in the head by being born into slavery and having to desert his mother in that hellhole who at the same time feels his power growing more than anyone around him ("Twice the pride, double the fall").
People have an idealistic/nostalgic view of Darth Vader.
He was a bully who at the same time was being controlled by another man (
). He tortured princesses, his son, snitched on his son multiple times to the Emperor and then threatened to do the same to his daughter.You don't get there from being a good natured charming confident young man, Anakin had to be fukked up before fully turning.
I would slightly disagree though in that Anakin was a decent person before turning as evidenced by several scenes throughout the PT (and TCW). At the same time he was fairly fukked up and a number of factors combined to cause him to turn.
I would slightly disagree though in that Anakin was a decent person before turning as evidenced by several scenes throughout the PT (and TCW). At the same time he was fairly fukked up and a number of factors combined to cause him to turn.
Absolutely, he wasn't all bad. He clearly loved Obi-Wan and Padme. I just think his idea of love was so fukked up and personal, that he never really understood the Jedi way - even though he quoted it perfectly.
"Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is central to a Jedi's life. So you might say we're encouraged to love"
He's right, but he was never able to be compassionate without being possessive. It goes back to him being a kid telling his mom "I don't want things to change", this is repeated in each movie. Episode II was "I should be able to stop people from dying" and Episode III was "love won't save you, only my new powers can". It's evidenced in the beginning of Episode III when he's willing to abort the rescue to save that Clonetrooper in space.
There was goodness in him, but there was a lot of frustration plus Palpatine corrupting his ideas of what love is (basically encouraging him to be possessive 'you should want power' 'one day you'll be more powerful than Yoda' 'You should save Padme from death'). Palpatine worked on his trauma of being a slave/alone and made him think he was a slave/alone in the Jedi Order. In the deleted scenes he also corrupts his views of Padme (deleted scenes who Padme's involvement in the start of the rebellion) which is why Anakin accuses her of 'beginning to sound like a Separatist' at one point.
Episode I had terrible pacing and Episode II had clunky writing. In general though I think the prequels told a great story and expanded the Star Wars universe in great ways. Episode III is second only to Empire in my book.
My biggest letdown of Episode VII is that they didn't try anything new like this.
Great post.
However honestly I blame the Prequel era Jedi Order as much as Anakin in his fall to the darkside and the destruction of the Jedi/Republic. When he first joined it wasn't too late for them, (although if Anakin didn't grow up as a slave and his mum wasn't murdered it would have been alot easier), and he could have become a great Jedi Master.
Their views on attachment, compassion, love, a Jedi's role and effectiveness etc had just as many issues as Anakin but in a completely different way. The views of the New Jedi Order from the Legends canon were alot better than what Anakin or the OJO thought, IMO. There's nothing intrinsically or inherently wrong with attachment if a Jedi can manage it, prioritise it and be trained to experience it without being swayed to the dark side.
And on a seperate note the NJO as an organisation weren't nearly as non-interventionist in crises and inactive as the OJO which is another reason they were better.
Also another factor leading Anakin to turning was the protracted conflict, the corruption and ineffectiveness that had gradually seeped into the Republic (thanks in no small part to Sidious of course) and what should be done about it. Like in Episode 2 when he's talking to Padme on Naboo about the need for "people to agree on the best thing for everyone and just do it" and if they don't, "they should be made too", "by someone wise". This combined with his personal issues, his power and treatment by the Jedi, and Sidious manipulation....
I don't disagree that Hayden basically what he should have relative to the role.IMO Hayden was perfect for what the script asked of him.
He was a whiny spoiled brat because that's how George saw Anakin. Hayden pulled that off. He was a tougher version of that in Episode III, and again Hayden pulled it off.
Most of the complaints I see about Anakin are things that not even supposed to be in his character. He's not supposed to be as smooth with the ladies as Han/Lando. He's not supposed to be as good natured as Luke. He's not supposed to be as controlled with his powers as young Obi-Wan was etc.
He was supposed to be a dude fukked up in the head by being born into slavery and having to desert his mother in that hellhole who at the same time feels his power growing more than anyone around him ("Twice the pride, double the fall").
People have an idealistic/nostalgic view of Darth Vader.
He was a bully who at the same time was being controlled by another man (
You don't get there from being a good natured charming confident young man, Anakin had to be fukked up before fully turning.
For lack of a better term there wasn't enough balance in his character. As it was written and portrayed he was those things but it defeats the biggest moment of the films which is him going back to the light side and saving his son. So if all he was was a petulant bully, the flip at the end of ROTJ becomes a WTF moment. Also it takes away any compassion you should feel at the end of ROTS. Ultimately you should feel that he was a generally good intentioned person that was pushed to the dark side by his good nature being corrupted purposefully by Palps and unknowingly by the JO.
They did that with Kylo much better. I won't rant on Lucas in that regard, it is what it is. Too some the degree TCW helps you understand what he should have been portrayed as and also hurts the view because they didn't seem to get there in the movies.
I wouldn't see it that way. With everything I said I still see a generally good person up until he betrays Mace (and excluding his murder of the Tusken Raider village).
It's just that there HAD to be conflict early on for him to turn to Vader - otherwise the heelflip would've been the other way around. A truly good person simply would not turn into a monster like Vader, there had to be misteps and a deeper darker undercurrent. Vader wasn't just a guy with dark beliefs, he did some truly despicable things.
I think there's plenty of instances of Anakin really being good or trying to do the right thing. And Palpatine did take advantage of that by implying that Anakin should be more powerful in order to do the right thing (plus reminding Anakin of his failure to save his mother).
Good people are allowed to be arrogant or whiny or akward with girls and make mistakes. Obi-Wan was arrogant as well (so was Luke). In Episode I Anakin's pretty innocent. In Episode II he loses his temper once, but he generally tries to be a good person. He hints at believing a dictatorship works over a democracy, but again that HAS to be there in order for him to become Vader (plus it's a direct effect of having that slave-syndrome). Episode III has the turn but it also has him wanting to nearly abort Palpatine's rescue in order to save a Clonetrooper, and then do the same twice to save Obi-Wan. His initial reaction to Palpatine's reveal is truly good, he wants to arrest him and informs Mace Windu about it (hell he even says he wants to kill Palpatine).
Great points
Hi!
Bushes Hall Of Famer
at the thread title update
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
all great points, but the story and the characters were still weak.IMO Hayden was perfect for what the script asked of him.
He was a whiny spoiled brat because that's how George saw Anakin. Hayden pulled that off. He was a tougher version of that in Episode III, and again Hayden pulled it off.
Most of the complaints I see about Anakin are things that not even supposed to be in his character. He's not supposed to be as smooth with the ladies as Han/Lando. He's not supposed to be as good natured as Luke. He's not supposed to be as controlled with his powers as young Obi-Wan was etc.
He was supposed to be a dude fukked up in the head by being born into slavery and having to desert his mother in that hellhole who at the same time feels his power growing more than anyone around him ("Twice the pride, double the fall").
People have an idealistic/nostalgic view of Darth Vader.
He was a bully who at the same time was being controlled by another man (
You don't get there from being a good natured charming confident young man, Anakin had to be fukked up before fully turning.
you say anakin was forced to desert his mother. why? why couldn't the jedi take his mother along with him and why didn't they ever go back and try to save her? why did anakin wait 10 years?
the barebone skeleton of the story was fine, it was everything else george fell short on.
I haven't read the thrawn trilogy in a minute but I loved them back when i did . What I can't remember is what about his was special outside of him being a great strategist ( I know he's a alien and has like a slave background )
2 Up 2 Down
Veteran
Qui Gon only had enough to free Anakin plus Jedi can't have attachments with people. That's why they seek out new potential jedi when they are babies.
It is explained in the films if I'm not mistaken (been reading the novelizations so I'm a little fuzzy about what was and wasnt in the films)