Standing of the Nation of Islam and Louis Farrakhan in the black community

[David_TheMan]

Your posting like you actually know something about the NOI. I Didn't think I had to breakdown 1975-1978. Like I said, if you don't know about this period, anything you say about the NOI is suspect.

I never denied he said those things about Malcolm. Im just showing you don't know the NOI, so your just say Farrakhan said...... If you knew the NOI, you could name others that said the same things. If you say context doesn't matter, fine, I'm just saying what actually happened, because you don't know. And like most people do, you make stuff, or tell half truths about the organization.

90 days of no public speaking. He didn't like that decision, so he left. Yes the whole ordeal was complicated, but ultimately, he made that decision. You're just flat out disregarding how the NOI functions because you know nothing of it, and it doesn't fit your narritive.

Not deflecting anything, Farrakhan deals with the CoS, never denied that, I can't, its on YouTube. I told you WHY he deals with CoS, he feels Dianetics is helpful. Your just lying if you say I didn't explain this "WHY" already. And like I stated earlier, the validity or usefulness with respect to any one specific individual is not for me to determine.

My basic premise is that you don't actually know anything about The Nation of Islam, so your posting with the f-ck Farrakhan, Malcolm can do no wrong theme.

You claimed the NoI had assets, you claim membership went up. I asked did you have any numbers to support this since we don't know if we can get 3rd party verifiable membership count. You started copping pleas. I simply said assets don't neccessarily mean membership is great, look at CoS with great assets but declining membership. To this you state NoI doesn't have assets and only gets by on donations. Like i said pick a story and stick to it.

I don't claim to know the inner workings of the NoI. That said things you have claimed have been proven factually incorrect.

Malcolm X says he was pushed out, the fact that you have FBI documented phone calls to his wife from NoI members threatening his life shows that your claim of him wanting to leave and simply going doesn't carry much weight.

You are deflecting. Telling me why he is in bed with the CoS, doesn't change the fact that he is in bed with a cult led by a deranged man who has kidnapped followers, seperated children from parents, and a whole host of evil things. Farrakhan choose to put himself in bed with these folks, he choose to associate the NoI with a religoius cult and their bullshyt psuedo-science dianetics game. I"m glad that atleast you stopped claiming he wasn't associated with the CoS and in bed with them.

Your basic premise seems to be defend the NoI and farrakhan at all cost even if it means making yourself look foolish in the process.

 

[im_sleep]

Personally I don't think it will ever be what it once was. There's too much info out there, especially via the internet that wasn't as readily known back in the day that would make a lot of folks skeptical. (Malcolm's assassination, the scientology stuff, etc).

Then look at different segments of the community. The liberal types aren't gonna ride with the respectability aspects and opinions on sexuality. I see more and more "conscious" folks becoming skeptical of Islam in the same light that they're skeptical of Christianity. And average everyday Black folks are either still locked into Christianity or not sure what direction to go.

With a lot of increased interest in African religions lately, and more and more Black folks becoming disillusioned, not just with Christianity as it was in the past, but with Abrahamic religions in general, I wonder if this will become the new alternative for those of us looking for direction and spiritual guidance...kinda like how in the 60's-90's the main path people went to fill that void was through Islam, particularly the NOI.

 

[motion order]

You claimed the NoI had assets, you claim membership went up. I asked did you have any numbers to support this since we don't know if we can get 3rd party verifiable membership count. You started copping pleas. I simply said assets don't neccessarily mean membership is great, look at CoS with great assets but declining membership. To this you state NoI doesn't have assets and only gets by on donations. Like i said pick a story and stick to it.

I don't claim to know the inner workings of the NoI. That said things you have claimed have been proven factually incorrect.

Malcolm X says he was pushed out, the fact that you have FBI documented phone calls to his wife from NoI members threatening his life shows that your claim of him wanting to leave and simply going doesn't carry much weight.

You are deflecting. Telling me why he is in bed with the CoS, doesn't change the fact that he is in bed with a cult led by a deranged man who has kidnapped followers, seperated children from parents, and a whole host of evil things. Farrakhan choose to put himself in bed with these folks, he choose to associate the NoI with a religoius cult and their bullshyt psuedo-science dianetics game. I"m glad that atleast you stopped claiming he wasn't associated with the CoS and in bed with them.

Your basic premise seems to be defend the NoI and farrakhan at all cost even if it means making yourself look foolish in the process.

If you truly wanted to know what the NOI had prior 1975 and what was built back up post 1978, you could find out rather easily. But you're f-ck Farrakhan and the NOI, so you won't look for anything positive.

You have not disproven anything I've said.

He got suspended, left the Nation, slandered Elijah, then received threats. Receiving threats does not mean that he didn't choose to leave on his own prior to that. You just refuse to acknowledge the laws and structure of the Nation.

You're lying. My first post in this thread said Farrakhan is associated with the CoS. You asked why, I told you why. You use the phrase "in bed" to make it seem like Farrakhan is in anyway involved with those nefarious claims you're making about CoS. You have no evidence that Farrakhan's association with Scientology goes any deeper than introducing his organization to the process of Dianetics.

People like you make me sick. Your affinity for Malcolm is the epitome of superficial. You state half truths about Malcolm's life with undue authority, but know nothing about The Nation of Islam. Therefore you really don't know anything of substance about Malcolm.

 

[David_TheMan]

If you truly wanted to know what the NOI had prior 1975 and what was built back up post 1978, you could find out rather easily. But you're f-ck Farrakhan and the NOI, so you won't look for anything positive.

You have not disproven anything I've said.

He got suspended, left the Nation, slandered Elijah, then received threats. Receiving threats does not mean that he didn't choose to leave on his own prior to that. You just refuse to acknowledge the laws and structure of the Nation.

You're lying. My first post in this thread said Farrakhan is associated with the CoS. You asked why, I told you why. You use the phrase "in bed" to make it seem like Farrakhan is in anyway involved with those nefarious claims you're making about CoS. You have no evidence that Farrakhan's association with Scientology goes any deeper than introducing his organization to the process of Dianetics.

People like you make me sick. Your affinity for Malcolm is the epitome of superficial. You state half truths about Malcolm's life with undue authority, but know nothing about The Nation of Islam. Therefore you really don't know anything of substance about Malcolm.

If you want to make an argument for assets being linked to membership and back it with facts that can be verified, start doing it.

You claimed Farrakhan wasn't in bed with CoS, he is in fact in bed with them in buying license to create NoI dianetic auditors. You claimed Malcolm X voluntarily left, Malcolm X himself says he was forced out.

I didn't say anything about your first post. I didn't ask you why he was associated with CoS. This is a lie.

I said Farrakhan was dabbling with a white led cult and their entry level psuedo-scientific scheme called dianetics. To this you started babbling about some how its okay for Farrakhan to work with CoS because he feels it helps, even though I pointed out there is nothing scientific about dianetics at all.

You can't argue any of your points so you attack me, so sad.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

@David_TheMan lets stay on topic please.

 

[motion order]

If you want to make an argument for assets being linked to membership and back it with facts that can be verified, start doing it.

Post after post on a subject you know almost nothing about. This is basic to how The Nation of Islam functions. All this stuff your posting, you are supposed to know this.

You claimed Farrakhan wasn't in bed with CoS, he is in fact in bed with them in buying license to create NoI dianetic auditors. You claimed Malcolm X voluntarily left, Malcolm X himself says he was forced out.

I BRIEFLY took issue with your use of the phrase "in bed with" I never denied the relationship. You don't know what Farrakhan is buying.
There was only 1 person that could have "forced" Malcolm out. You have not mentioned him once.

I didn't say anything about your first post. I didn't ask you why he was associated with CoS. This is a lie.

From the 1st post of yours that I quoted:

That said can you explain to me why Farrakhan has dianetic auditors in the NoI, dianetics itself is a pseudo-science used primarily by the scientology cult to fool people into shelling out money?

I said Farrakhan was dabbling with a white led cult and their entry level psuedo-scientific scheme called dianetics. To this you started babbling about some how its okay for Farrakhan to work with CoS because he feels it helps, even though I pointed out there is nothing scientific about dianetics at all.

Like I've said before, Farrakhan explains this himself. You don't know anything about the Nation of Islam, you don't know what's suitable for the organization.

 

[A Different Narrative]

The Nation of Islam is nearly the same as the Moorish Science Temple although I consider the Moorish Science Temple to be better when it comes to education. Both are about Islam tho. Personally, I don't get down with the dress codes and membership stuff..

The NOI is corrupt like most stuff in the black community but its not worse than the black church since the black church is pretty much dead. I have a problem with Louis Farrakhan and his half truths tho. Malcolm knew what was up....The NOI had pretty much got its basic teachings from the Noble Prophet Drew Ali who establish the Moorish Science Temple. There were more groups born out of this but NOI and MST are pretty much the main ones.

The only group I would ever fukk with is the NAAIP...it's the most legit.

 

[IVS]

The NOI could have been great but it became the cult of Elijah Muhammad. The org has been compromised.

 

[outordinary]

I've been busy with work and studying so sorry for the silence. Let's get something straight with this thread, I'm not looking for "fukkery".

This is the root, a subforum of the "no BS" forum. It is not TLR, so if you want to come in here speaking "fukkery" like david, go to TLR and make a NOI rumor mill thread, but don't come in my thread speaking cac agent fukkery. Now back to the topics.

The Nation of Islam is nearly the same as the Moorish Science Temple although I consider the Moorish Science Temple to be better when it comes to education. Both are about Islam tho. Personally, I don't get down with the dress codes and membership stuff..

The NOI is corrupt like most stuff in the black community but its not worse than the black church since the black church is pretty much dead. I have a problem with Louis Farrakhan and his half truths tho. Malcolm knew what was up....The NOI had pretty much got its basic teachings from the Noble Prophet Drew Ali who establish the Moorish Science Temple. There were more groups born out of this but NOI and MST are pretty much the main ones.

The only group I would ever fukk with is the NAAIP...it's the most legit.

You cannot ignore that all are about peace, justice, freedom and equality for black people. That's at the base of these organizations, that is why the NOI and it's leaders, even if they point out some of the fault's of other groups, at the end of the day are able to meet with each other and speak collectively about our problems and what solutions we need.

You can't ignore that truth. Saviors day gatherings have people from all the organizations coming just to be with fellow blacks to shop with each other, speak with each other and plan with each other. The meet up that occurred from the 17th-19th of Feb this year had people from Christian churches, MST, NOI, the city they hosted it in etc.

If you keep in the mindset of "ohh I can't fukk with NOI, I can't duck with MST, I can't duck with ect ect" even if they have good intentions for you and you don't want to take the good they offer, we will stay LOST and at the bottom just like society wants us. Before anyone says it, yes we are still lost even with black billionaires and wealthy entertainers if we can't fix the problems we have.

The NOI could have been great but it became the cult of Elijah Muhammad. The org has been compromised.

Unless the organization stops promoting love for fellow blacks, doing for self, and wanting blacks to be equal and truly free, then it is not compromised sir. If it's any type of cult, it's a cult of God since they always say don't worship farrakhan or elijah or fard, they say worship god. I can point out plenty of sections of speeches where they say worship God not me.

 

[outordinary]

Personally I don't think it will ever be what it once was. There's too much info out there, especially via the internet that wasn't as readily known back in the day that would make a lot of folks skeptical. (Malcolm's assassination, the scientology stuff, etc).

Then look at different segments of the community. The liberal types aren't gonna ride with the respectability aspects and opinions on sexuality. I see more and more "conscious" folks becoming skeptical of Islam in the same light that they're skeptical of Christianity. And average everyday Black folks are either still locked into Christianity or not sure what direction to go.

With a lot of increased interest in African religions lately, and more and more Black folks becoming disillusioned, not just with Christianity as it was in the past, but with Abrahamic religions in general, I wonder if this will become the new alternative for those of us looking for direction and spiritual guidance...kinda like how in the 60's-90's the main path people went to fill that void was through Islam, particularly the NOI.

I think it will, that's why I'm looking towards Noi more than anything. With the recent happenings, our people can't just look away from organizations that want well for black people. I've come to terms that in a few years time, shyt is gonna get worse in the world it's a given, take it or leave it. At that time, people will either get with the program and find a group that wants to come together and advance or stay by themselves and perish alone under the increased bullshyt that will occur.

All I can do is continue to learn, continue to build up, encourage others to build up and encourage others to get with organizations/people of similar mindset to build in prep for the future. I'll say one thing, it's not gonna be a white organization pushing you to freedom

 

[David_TheMan]

@David_TheMan lets stay on topic please.

I stated my opinion on topic, someone asked me questions, I replied directly to their questions, yet you ignore that user and only mention me.
Sorry but if you are a mod, and this is how you think you moderate a discussion, by simply attacking the person who you disagree with, then I'll just not continue in this thread.
I see what racket you all are running. You just want an intellectual circle jerk.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I stated my opinion on topic, someone asked me questions, I replied directly to their questions, yet you ignore that user and only mention me.
Sorry but if you are a mod, and this is how you think you moderate a discussion, by simply attacking the person who you disagree with, then I'll just not continue in this thread.
I see what racket you all are running. You just want an intellectual circle jerk.

Okay. First someone reported you. I actually rejected it because I saw you were doing nothing wrong and so I only peacefully asked you to not derail the thread because the OP did not want that. Instead you not only ignored what I asked but say this?

 

[outordinary]

I stated my opinion on topic, someone asked me questions, I replied directly to their questions, yet you ignore that user and only mention me.
Sorry but if you are a mod, and this is how you think you moderate a discussion, by simply attacking the person who you disagree with, then I'll just not continue in this thread.
I see what racket you all are running. You just want an intellectual circle jerk.

I really don't want to give trolls attention since cook says ignore them, but it's obvious you are here to troll. You're simply here to say no matter what good the NOI wants for blacks, don't follow them. You are taking whatever fake media slander is around and repeating the already debunked topics in order to turn people away from learning anything more about the organization. If anything, you want an argument out of people.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I really don't want to give trolls attention since cook says ignore them, but it's obvious you are here to troll. You're simply here to say no matter what good the NOI wants for blacks, don't follow them. You are taking whatever fake media slander is around and repeating the already debunked topics in order to turn people away from learning anything more about the organization. If anything, you want an argument out of people.

Lets stay on topic. Its already been taken care of.

 

[A Different Narrative]

You cannot ignore that all are about peace, justice, freedom and equality for black people. That's at the base of these organizations, that is why the NOI and it's leaders, even if they point out some of the fault's of other groups, at the end of the day are able to meet with each other and speak collectively about our problems and what solutions we need.

You can't ignore that truth. Saviors day gatherings have people from all the organizations coming just to be with fellow blacks to shop with each other, speak with each other and plan with each other. The meet up that occurred from the 17th-19th of Feb this year had people from Christian churches, MST, NOI, the city they hosted it in etc.

If you keep in the mindset of "ohh I can't fukk with NOI, I can't duck with MST, I can't duck with ect ect" even if they have good intentions for you and you don't want to take the good they offer, we will stay LOST and at the bottom just like society wants us. Before anyone says it, yes we are still lost even with black billionaires and wealthy entertainers if we can't fix the problems we have.

Well that is good for them but our black leaders have been c00nin for some time...I respect the progress that the NOI strive for but I just disagree with some of their teachings. I would work with them if it beneficial but I am not about to blindly support groups just because they are black. That's what got our people in the mess we in right now...allowing people to lead us into burning buildings.