Yep. It’s definitely not a big deal to me. A lot of the same people arguing this don’t even care about the beginnings of hiphop anyway.
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SIR NORIN RAD:"Willie Will (legendary Puerto Rican B-Boy from Rockwell Association) told me about how we was introduced to that original Black B-Boy Style of dancing which you referred to as The Go Off in 1976 by a B-Boy called Chopper that was down with the Zulu Nation. What was the relationship between TBB and the Zulu Nation? Was there any kind of contact at all?"
ABY:"Again, I was younger. I was too young to even understand the difference between Black and Puerto Rican. But to my brothers...to the older guys there was a barrier....there was a line between Blacks and Latinos. I mean look at the gangs back then...the Black Spades were all black and then you had the Ghetto Brothers which were all Latinos....so there was a division at first. I remember the Zulu Kings only from late 1976/77 that's when we really got involved. That's also when Batch had his meeting with the Zulu Nation..1977. TBB and members of the Zulu Nation they used to have rumbles.....they would fight against each other. Whatever jam they went to they would rumble. If there was a jam and TBB was chilling there and all of a sudden some one threw hands Batch would summon TBB Joe's division who was known as the warlord division meaning thay handled all the rumbles or one on one fight make sure no one jumped in !! . One of the first black DJs that I ever met was Lay Lay. He was from Fun PM City Crew and they was all black but they was kool cause they were from the block.We never had problems in 129 Mapes Pool. Lay Lay would get cutting and we would start dancing !! Back then we danced more with the girls than against each other .. But when we heard "It's Just Begun" or Babe Ruth "Mexican" or "Bongo Rock"... forget about it! Floor rockers hit the flooooorrrrrrr,!!! Cypher set and battles was for respect not money .. You had to be there to truly understand and smell the air and feel the excitement when the cat you was battling burned you the last time and you been practicing all week long for the moment you let it all out on the concrete ... Damn miss em days ."
DJ Lay Lay & The Fun City Crew rocking with The L-Brothers and The Mercedes Ladies in 1979
SIR NORIN RAD:"So you're saying there was a lot of tension between TBB and members the Zulu Nation?"
ABY:"There was! There was a lot of tension out there."
SIR NORIN RAD:"And all that beef was squashed at that meeting?"
ABY:"Batch had his meeting with Bam at the Webster projects on Zulu Nation turf in 1977. After that meeting they squashed it. I don't know how come Bam never spoke of this because it's such an important part of the history. It identifies with unity between Latinos and Blacks. So I don't know why he never acknowledged it."
No, it was a coincidence that we were together. I went to the L- Brothers practice but I first got down with Butchie Gee and them. I have to say if it wasn’t for me seeing D.J. A.J. I would not have been a rapper at all. With the L- Brothers that was Gene’s thing. Their manager at the time was a Jamaican guy named Trevor, you hear it in the rhyme. “And Trevor is our manager and were down with the L- Brothers crew!” One day I was in front of Theodore’s house 168th street and Boston Road. I was just hanging out on the stoop. If I wasn’t playing baseball, that was the place to be. Mean Gene came up to me and said “hey come over here, I want to talk to you.” He took me down the hill to Webster Avenue. Kev and Rob were standing by the stoop. They take me up the stairs to this weed spot that everybody used to cop weed from. You would knock on the door and some one would look through the peep hole and you would pass 5 or 3 dollars through. You would wait a minute and a nickel or tray bag would come through. You had to know these people to be able to get weed from them, and I was known by hanging out with the L- Brothers. Plus I was becoming pretty popular with the softball and the music. In my neck of the woods I was the man. The first thing Kev said to me when we stepped inside was “you are going to listen to what the F--- I tell you.” He let me know that he was the man. Rob said we are going to put you down with a real crew.
Those were Kev’s exact words, “you are going to listen to what the F--- I tell you.”
(Ruby Dee laughs.) Yeah that was probably word for word what he said pretty much in a nut shell. But that was said in a nice way, it wasn’t sarcastic or threatening! If I thought it was disrespectful they would have had to tag team me, because I was also one of those type of dudes you can’t tell me nothing. I was 19 years old 187lb.s and I was one of those dudes that was not having it, and I hit first.
When I got up there they were sitting on top of the speakers. I was a little scared because I was like this is the weed spot, and with all these black dudes they are going to lynch me. It was hang a Puerto Rican day today. I don’t know. I was like whoa! They were all there, Theodore, Gene, Kev, Rob and Busy Bee. It wasn’t a try out, Kevin and Rob just came out and said you are down.
What were your feelings on that?
Well at the time I really didn’t know what I was doing. I was just proud to be there! I did feel like now I can get some of my people in the party.
I knew about the fame and how big it was getting but this was really just something I did as a hobby but it started to get good and I started to make money. The first party I did at the P.A.L. I made $87! They gave me 87 one dollar bills. Whooooooa!
(We both start laughing.)
I think at that time minimum wage was $2.75 to $3.35 an hour at that time. What I made that night was what some cats was getting in a whole week.
That’s right.
So I remember them giving me $87 in singles in the bathroom. I remember thinking I know they screwing me over by giving me a whole pack of ones so I don’t say anything, but that’s cool! (Ruby in a serious voice then says) Maybe I am wrong, maybe that did not go down like that. I just remember when we were in the bathroom when they paid me and I was like “look at these marenos, these black guys giving me all these ones to make it look like a big knot.” I thought about that. I am not going to deny it. I said “look at these mother f------! It’s cool (Ruby Dee is laughing now.) keep jerking me.” But I found out we were all getting paid equally later on. In the beginning, and I am just using a number, say if Kev and Rob got a hundred dollars for the show I would get eighty dollars!
Say word!
That was just for a couple of shows but after awhile I was like “hey when we were first doing parties it was all black crowds, but now you got all these Puerto Rican people coming to see me, they are not coming to see ya’ll or just ya’ll!” To shift gears for a minute, I remember saying “Va Ya!” And Kev said “Puerto Rico!” they said “Ho”! That’s how that was invented.
Do you remember any other Spanish emcees or D.J.s back then?
Charlie Chase, Disco Wiz….
Disco Wiz was Caz D.J. right?
Right, he was Puerto Rican. I really don’t remember any one else. Whip was probably out before me, but I got the credit of being the first Puerto Rican. When I got on stage you knew I was Puerto Rican! I talked Spanish on the mic.
Did you ever have Spanish rhymes?
Yeah we had one routine when we battled the Funky 4 at the Audubon Ballroom. We all had our own rhyme to say when it was your turn. When it was my turn I said in Spanish Ruby Dee the romantic and Kev said hold up and one by one Dot, Whip and Rob said hold up! Hold Up, Hold Up, Hold Up! Ruby Dee, Ruby Dee, Ruby Dee Ruby Dee this is not Puerto Rico this is America. Boom then I bust into Fantastic Romantic Five, and the whole crew would then come in.
GTFO. Nobody is going to respect our history if we don't even respect it ourselves. That means telling the truth accurately with no falsehoods and 
. And damn anyone who feels excluded or "left out" by it.Because moves are currently being made to gentrify and eventually erase black people from the creation of hip hop
Dumb shyt is an understatement for you - you said wild disrespect to racist unhinged shyt. Bout time you humbled yourself- you’re too damn culturally and historically ignorant to be taking the stances that you do . Read a damn book instead of relying on your block huggers for educational relevance.
Nikkas try too hard to be on a high horse about shyt. I guarantee you there were some "Why do y'all care so much?" ass nikkas regarding jazz and rock tooCouple points:
1. Everyone in here asking "why do y'all care" are one of the main reasons why black folks are behind. You have no problem engaging with all the trivial, gossip girl bullshyt posted on here, but y'all acting like you above discussing this. I guess it's all fun and games to lie about black history until white people start doing it too huh? Then yall nikkas gonna call them "culture vultures" and cry about "infiltration".
Never knew Here Comes The Judge charted that high
Pigmeat Markham 
Born Dewey Markham
April 18, 1904
Durham, North Carolina, U.S.Died December 13, 1981 (aged 77)
The Bronx, New York, U.S
Ie, this exact man, a, whose proto- rap song "Here Come The Judge" was popular enough to reach 19 on the billboard charts in 1968, b, who followed the exact carolina- nyc path that 99% of our grandparents took, and c, WHO DIED IN THE BRONX and is buried at woodlawn, is somehow unrelated to the artform invented by his 'grandchildren' in this very same borough in the early 70s.
Yes, lets give shakespeare the credit.
Participation does not equal creation, that had to take place before participation occurred or there would be no ability to participate. Since culture develops specific points of creation, the elements that created hip-hop can be traced solely back to ADOS artistic and intellectual developments; hip-hop is an ADOS creation of their sustained cultural development.You dont have to agree with my personal opinion,the ignore button isnt hard to find. Context is key,what were the ages of the peurto ricans telling him not to do "jungle bunny music"?Obviously there were young peurto ricans participating according to all the OG's. And according to Bambatta you had white youth participating. So your post doesnt negate it was a youth genre and not a black genre like I said. There was nothing inherently black about the content in early hiphop. You can say black people invented it. But that doesnt mean it was a black genre at the time. But most of you here lack nuance to understand the difference. Perhaps once you cool down and mature a bit.
This is why I dont have an issue with Peurto ricans discussing their role in early hiphop youth culture. Good for you,we thank you for your contributions. It wasnt a black genre at that time. But since hiphop has been a black genre peurto ricans have essentially contributed nothing of value. I would argue whites have contributed more and even then its still a black genre. Yall just sound insecure as hell to me.
Now ,start your response off with an apology for disrespecting a black man,or dont bother. Always remember,the ignore button is one click away
Nikkas try too hard to be on a high horse about shyt. I guarantee you there were some "Why do y'all care so much?" ass nikkas regarding jazz and rock too
Never knew Here Comes The Judge charted that high
You left out Dominican but other than that, this is a great point
I’m both AA and Latino so I got no dog in this race. I’d say AA people played a bigger role but there’s no way in hell anything (hip hop or otherwise) urban starts in The Bronx without Boricuas and Dominicans being part of it from the beginning or very early days at the very least.
why are you mentioning Dominicans? They never really had any real influence or impact in the musical scope of NYC.
Dumb shyt is an understatement for you - you said wild disrespect to racist unhinged shyt. Bout time you humbled yourself- you’re too damn culturally and historically ignorant to be taking the stances that you do . Read a damn book instead of relying on your block huggers for educational relevance.
Wish I would have known about this thread earlier - thread would have been over as soon as I posted your civil war diatribe and white slaves commentary, Taino.
Participation does not equal creation, that had to take place before participation occurred or there would be no ability to participate. Since culture develops specific points of creation, the elements that created hip-hop can be traced solely back to ADOS artistic and intellectual developments; hip-hop is an ADOS creation of their sustained cultural development.
Hip-hop's location in New York, a historically cosmopolitan state, does not change this fact.
ADOS music, before being universally accepted was always derided as jungle music, race music or not even music.
From the beginning it had nothing to do with Ricans or other Latinos, hip-hop culture is a direct descendant of the artistic and intellectual legacy of the Harlem Renaissance if you want New York alone. After Harlem it's jazz (New Orleans), then decades of black nationalism specifically the NOI through the Five Percenters as influences.
Rican anti-black racism made sure their participation was after the fact of creation, and despite their proximity it still prevented them from participating for a time during and after its creation. The few initial participants had to know what the culture and genre was before their participation so their participation was and is more akin to emulation, imitation than genuine assimilation to warrant true participation. If it was genuine, they would not be doing this. They did not create it, they see the value, and they are trying to use their history of imitation via participation to take it. The minstrel shows were also similar imitations that went on to steal black culture.
If that was not the case they would not boldly make the assertion of creating it. The only difference is Ricans and Latinos haven't institutionalized black culture like white people in their home countries because they have a history of ethnically cleansing their populations of people descended from the African diaspora. If hip-hop was really created by Ricans and Latinos, where are the clear traces of it in their country? I already tapped the drum, Tito Puente isn't hip-hop, their dances aren't hip-hop. They got on board, now they're trying to run the ship.
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No I will not shut the fuk up, bytch. Your only reference of historical contention is referring to a fictional story for a connection- game of thrones semantics st*rmfronting faggit - if you don’t get the fuk from running around here Iike you’re the Dominic00n gatekeeper as you reject your “black” origin story in favor of your white masters. Damn fukkin right, I will shut your shyt down and whatever else, when it comes to defending my lineage, unlike you. Can’t stand you or your bytch ass “what if, what about” white worship posts, you don’t give a shyt about race- then why the fuk are you always instigating? You want me to shut up so I can stop exposing how you really feel. Hell NO. Oh I got time now.
