Sooo....no talk on Kiev's gradual descent into Mad Max beyond Thunderdome status??

[Futuristic Eskimo]

Hmm. Sounds like you're just giving me the most palatable answer for you and expecting that it should be acceptable for me, but it's really not.

From my experience in Russian with Russians and Ukranians I honestly believe the people and the Russian government are seriously concerned about the well being of the people.

Subjective experiences tend to skew people's opinions. If you weight historical events into your viewpoint more heavily, I don't really see how you can have this opinion.

 

[keepemup]

Subjective experiences tend to skew people's opinions. If you weight historical events into your viewpoint more heavily, I don't really see how you can have this opinion.

You were not specific at all. And also considering Russias policies toward former Soviet States it appears entirely like they are concerned about their well-being. Russia has allowed Ukraine to have below market prices for gas for nearly a decade and a half, even through the political turmoil from them until now. That is one reason why I can have this opinion.

 

[Futuristic Eskimo]

You were not specific at all. And also considering Russias policies toward former Soviet States it appears entirely like they are concerned about their well-being. Russia has allowed Ukraine to have below market prices for gas for nearly a decade and a half, even through the political turmoil from them until now. That is one reason why I can have this opinion.

I have to go through the entirety of Russian relations with its neighbors to satisfy you? That's on you breh. They give them low gas prices, Russia gets to have a stable (up until now) relationship with a country who gives them access to its Black Sea Fleet. I don't think altruism is the driving factor behind these deals. I think that the Russians threatening to raise their gas prices as a result of this recent debacle supports that line of reasoning.

 

[Kritic]

Russia Today Anchor Boldly Quit Her Job on the Air: ‘I Am Proud to Be an American’

“That is why personally I cannot be part of a network that is funded by the Russian government that whitewashes the actions of Putin. I am proud to be an American and believe in disseminating the truth. And that is why after this newscast I am resigning,” Wahl concluded.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ob-at-state-owned-tv-network-live-on-the-air/



what a stupid byatch. fuq outta here. where were you from 90's til today quiting everytime bush and barack did the same thing and were defended by ppl like you.
where's this bytch headed to fox news or msnbc?
you ain't built for politics. putin replace this bytch

 

[tru_m.a.c]

There's a valid argument to be made that the EU's us or them stance in this and their weak offer was a manipulation to cause these events. They knew what the situation on the ground was and that Yanukovych going back to the Russians would lead to a revolt in Western Ukraine. Now the west has basically successfully leveraged away the Western Ukraine from Russia's influence, which is a big plus.

Right. The only events they planned on causing were the riots. They thought Yanukovych would succumb to the pressure. They over played their hand and are now scrambling to save face. Look at them scrambling to pay the 15billion to show up Russia and be the good guys.

What have they won!? Western Ukraine? You think splitting a country is a good thing. Geez louis man. You think the EU, in 2014, wants to rebuild an Eastern European nation in political turmoil?

you either dont understand or are ignoring what Im trying to say

the eu/us fighting with russia over whos finna make ukraine their bytch is the main reason why we're involved.
and my point is we shouldnt be

this fight does not happen if there is no binary antagonism between the west and russia. plain and simple.

Ukraine at one point housed the 3rd largest arsenal of nuclear weapons in the world. What do you mean we "shouldn't be." This isn't an option. You don't turn your back on a security treaty.

Ukraine has WANTED to reap benefits of the EU. They're trying to walk a thin line between building an economically stable country with ties to the West and not upsetting the Russians.

Russia cannot take Crimea if Yanukovych isn't removed from power AFTER they brokered a deal. That is plain and simple.

 

[yseJ]

Ukraine at one point housed the 3rd largest arsenal of nuclear weapons in the world. What do you mean we "shouldn't be." This isn't an option. You don't turn your back on a security treaty.

Ukraine has WANTED to reap benefits of the EU. They're trying to walk a thin line between building an economically stable country with ties to the West and not upsetting the Russians.

Russia cannot take Crimea if Yanukovych isn't removed from power AFTER they brokered a deal. That is plain and simple.

how can ukraine as a country want something when government didnt want it ? are you speaking for all its people ? and you cant have ties to the west and not upset the russians. benefits from eu is one step away from nato in russia's eyes. those interests are diametrically opposite.

what the fukk do nuclear weapons mean in this context ? a riot happened because pro-russian govt decided not to fukk with eu. we decided to support the riot with our propaganda and try to get the elected govt out of there because it directly corresponded with our interests of ukraine entering the eu and being west-dependent on $ handout rather than the russians. the west/eu dont support the riot and its likely put down by a legitimate ukranian government. end of story.

but because it was pro-russian we decided to enter this. there is not much difference from the pinochet affair.

again, its basically a battle of who is going to feed a bum ass ukraine some nickels and dimes. us or them. no more, no less

 

[Kritic]

this is a very self-serving act. There has been no casualties so far(by the Russian army). And they arent the only country who has committed atrocities On the national stage there's no such thing as right or wrong. You either got power or you don't. If you fall into the latter then

RT reacts to Liz Wahl's resignation

During a live broadcast on Wednesday, RT America presenter Liz Wahl announced she was stepping down, citing her disagreements with the network’s editorial policy. RT issued a statement following her resignation.

Ms. Wahl's resignation comes on the heels of her colleague Abby Martin's recent comments in which she voiced her disagreement with certain policies of the Russian government and asserted her editorial independence. The difference is, Ms. Martin spoke in the context of her own talk show, to the viewers who have been tuning in for years to hear her opinions on current events – the opinions that most media did not care about until two days ago. For years, Ms. Martin has been speaking out against US military intervention, only to be ignored by the mainstream news outlets – but with that one comment, branded as an act of defiance, she became an overnight sensation. It is a tempting example to follow.
When a journalist disagrees with the editorial position of his or her organization, the usual course of action is to address those grievances with the editor, and, if they cannot be resolved, to quit like a professional. But when someone makes a big public show of a personal decision, it is nothing more than a self-promotional stunt.

We wish Liz the best of luck on her chosen path.

http://rt.com/usa/rt-reacts-liz-wahl-042/

 

[Futuristic Eskimo]

Right. The only events they planned on causing were the riots. They thought Yanukovych would succumb to the pressure. They over played their hand and are now scrambling to save face. Look at them scrambling to pay the 15billion to show up Russia and be the good guys.

What have they won!? Western Ukraine? You think splitting a country is a good thing. Geez louis man. You think the EU, in 2014, wants to rebuild an Eastern European nation in political turmoil?

Why are you trivializing the chipping away of Russian dominance of the region? These things aren't done in broad strokes. I never said its a good thing and made no judgement on whether these type of actions are moral or not.

I can see your point of view but I disagree and feel that the west covets the Ukraine much more than you are insinuating. They wouldn't set off this uncertain chain of events instead of kicking in a few more billion dollars to sweeten the deal for Yanukovych. I think they knew that he would stay with Russia so they low-balled and then pushed to oust him from power to set up their own little sphere of influence in the western half of the country. There was nothing to lose by doing this.

 

[Crakface]

White people problems that dont effect me. May have some unforseen cost on me as a consumer or taxpayer though.

 

[RAX 010]

Nobody has time to be fukkin around with Putin right now
Crimea is pro russia anyway so let them deal with it
in a civilized manner...besides Ukraine needs to worry
bout Kiev right now any fukkin way...

Obama need to snatch that 1 Billy up and cut black people some checks wit that shyt

 

[$lim]

I was talking to my Russian friend and she was all pissed about how Russia is being portrayed as the aggressor when she says the pact allows a military base, 25,000 soldiers, and Russian troops at the border(of Russia). Only in defense though. She said Russia has never been the aggressor and fights only out of defense. I wanna fukk her so bad.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

I can see your point of view but I disagree and feel that the west covets the Ukraine much more than you are insinuating. They wouldn't set off this uncertain chain of events instead of kicking in a few more billion dollars to sweeten the deal for Yanukovych. I think they knew that he would stay with Russia so they low-balled and then pushed to oust him from power to set up their own little sphere of influence in the western half of the country. There was nothing to lose by doing this.

Actually we both agree that Ukraine is a prize. You're not realizing how much more money/time/effort it will take to rebound from this sort of conflict. That cost is phenomenal. Like we have vids of people getting sniped in the street. The neo nazi element was given legit help. The impact of those images and decisions will never go away. This is a disaster.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

how can ukraine as a country want something when government didnt want it ? are you speaking for all its people ? and you cant have ties to the west and not upset the russians. benefits from eu is one step away from nato in russia's eyes. those interests are diametrically opposite.

Jesus Christ man. Just stop. Just go research the Ukraine economic situation a bit.

Striking the right balance between relations with the West and relations with Russia has always been Ukraine’s central foreign policy challenge. Ukraine’s leaders have sought to have it both ways: to grow relations with the United States, European Union and NATO while also trying to maintain a stable relationship with Russia.

Kyiv pulled off this balancing act in the 1990s. Its first steps to engage the West did not appear to threaten key Russian interests. Boris Yeltsin accepted Ukraine as an independent state. Vladimir Putin, however, is not Boris Yeltsin, and today’s Russia is not the Russia of the 1990s. The current Russian president wants to prevent Ukraine from slipping too far toward the West, has significant leverage over Kyiv and is prepared to use it. The Russians’ spectacularly ill-timed February 26 decision to launch a snap military exercise is not an encouraging sign, nor are the February 27-28 developments in Crimea.

Ukraine regained its independence following the Soviet Union’s collapse in 1991. While a small minority of ardent Ukrainian nationalists wished that Russia would simply disappear, Kyiv had no realistic divorce option. The Soviet system left the Ukrainian and Russian economies thoroughly intertwined. The Ukrainian energy sector remained hugely dependent on Russia for natural gas, oil and fuel rods for its nuclear reactors.
……
A Ukraine moving toward the West seriously threatens Putin’s geopolitical construct. Moreover, he strives to appear to his domestic political base as a strongman and protector of Russia’s national interests. “Losing” Ukraine would undermine that carefully cultivated image.

Putin thus has responded very differently than Yeltsin to Ukraine’s pursuit of its westward vector. In January 2008, Ukrainian President Victor Yushchenko requested a membership action plan (MAP) from NATO. A few weeks later, Putin stood next to Yushchenko at a Kremlin press conference and calmly threatened to target nuclear missiles on Ukraine. The MAP request failed to win consensus support at the April 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest.

Fast forward to 2013. Ukraine, now under President Victor Yanukovych, neared signature of an association agreement with the European Union, which includes a free trade arrangement. Its full implementation would prepare the ground for a future EU membership bid—and pull Ukraine irretrievably out of Moscow’s orbit.

Putin accordingly cranked up the pressure. Last summer, Russian customs inspectors began to block the import of Ukrainian goods. Kremlin officials threatened all manner of financial ruin should Kyiv go forward with signing the agreement.

The threats worked. Yanukovych suspended the association agreement process and instead accepted Putin’s gifts of a $15 billion credit line and cheaper gas. But the European Union exerts a powerful pull. Tens of thousands took to the streets of Kyiv in November in protest. Stoked by anger over brutal police tactics, the protest swelled to the hundreds of thousands, ultimately bringing down the Yanukovych regime.

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-f...aines-perpetual-east-west-balancing-act-pifer

But the government didn't want it…..

 

[Futuristic Eskimo]

Actually we both agree that Ukraine is a prize. You're not realizing how much more money/time/effort it will take to rebound from this sort of conflict. That cost is phenomenal. Like we have vids of people getting sniped in the street. The neo nazi element was given legit help. The impact of those images and decisions will never go away. This is a disaster.

Those costs might be substantial in the short-term, but I don't think the west is thinking short-term by doing this breh. As per the Neo Nazi element (the fact that this even exists in eastern europe deserve some serious sociological study btw), I feel that supporting these guys is a page out of the American playbook. We always prop up these kind of elements because their existence in power is more of a result of our support of them rather than some kind of organic politcal movement within a nation. As a result, we can manipulate and use these types of regimes more easily to our own benefit and to the detriment of the country's populace.

 

[YouMadd?]

lesbianest

most of these so called "protest" in Crimea wouldn't even count as a full court pick up game

until I see some molotov cocktails being hurled, I'll just wait until the back door negotiations are settled

Yeah... Remember the battle in Seattle back in 99'?