Software Development and Programming Careers (Official Discussion Thread)

kevm3

follower of Jesus
Supporter
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
16,292
Reputation
5,551
Daps
83,494
The boot camp shyt has really fukked up the industry. Now it's impossible to get in. Even folks with 5+ years experience have trouble getting a job in this field.

I tried to tell people about this. Bootcamp has created a flood of lower level developers who will work for cheap just to get their first job and pay off the tens of thousands in debt from bootcamp. All of that stuff about guys were getting 100k straight from bootcamp was during a very short period when it was very hard to find developers and the demand greatly outpaced the supply. Now there are a ton of entry level developers, you have to grind super hard just to get that 60k job. These companies only want people with two+ years of experience and preferably a big company on your resume.

I'll go as far to say that there is no such thing as 'entry level' programming jobs. You have to come in pretty much knowing what you're doing and you will have to learn whatever stack they have relatively quickly. They don't really want to teach you anything. To get a job now you have to have several of your own sites already deployed and you have to apply nonstop for months.
 

Rozay Oro

2 Peter 3:9 if you don’t know God
Supporter
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
41,228
Reputation
5,272
Daps
75,015
I tried to tell people about this. Bootcamp has created a flood of lower level developers who will work for cheap just to get their first job and pay off the tens of thousands in debt from bootcamp. All of that stuff about guys were getting 100k straight from bootcamp was during a very short period when it was very hard to find developers and the demand greatly outpaced the supply. Now there are a ton of entry level developers, you have to grind super hard just to get that 60k job. These companies only want people with two+ years of experience and preferably a big company on your resume.

I'll go as far to say that there is no such thing as 'entry level' programming jobs. You have to come in pretty much knowing what you're doing and you will have to learn whatever stack they have relatively quickly. They don't really want to teach you anything. To get a job now you have to have several of your own sites already deployed and you have to apply nonstop for months.
Damn
 

PikaDaDon

Thunderbolt Them Suckers
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Messages
9,361
Reputation
2,335
Daps
25,316
Reppin
NULL


From where I'm sitting it seems Java is losing steam despite topping the TIOBE index this year. It was primarily used for 4 things: Desktop applications, frontend web development, android, and backend. It has lost prominence in all categories except backend.

Less people are using it for desktop development. C/C++ is faster. The c#/.net ecosystem provides better tooling for windows development. And python's simpler syntax provides better productivity.

For frontend, all of the major browsers have blocked Java and Javascript has surpassed it in usage/popularity: Firefox 52 drops Java plugin support, expands HTTP ‘not secure’ warnings Thanks for no longer supporting Java, now no one using Firefox can use my WordPress blog, which REQUIRES Java. Good job. Opera is now my default browser. | Firefox Support Forum | Mozilla Support

For android development Google officially supports Kotlin:


If you get a job doing Java backend work you'll more than likely work on a legacy enterprise codebase. But these big companies can't rely on old Java technology forever. Eventually they'll have to migrate to something new.

I tried to tell people about this. Bootcamp has created a flood of lower level developers who will work for cheap just to get their first job and pay off the tens of thousands in debt from bootcamp. All of that stuff about guys were getting 100k straight from bootcamp was during a very short period when it was very hard to find developers and the demand greatly outpaced the supply. Now there are a ton of entry level developers, you have to grind super hard just to get that 60k job. These companies only want people with two+ years of experience and preferably a big company on your resume.

I'll go as far to say that there is no such thing as 'entry level' programming jobs. You have to come in pretty much knowing what you're doing and you will have to learn whatever stack they have relatively quickly. They don't really want to teach you anything. To get a job now you have to have several of your own sites already deployed and you have to apply nonstop for months.

If one were desperate for employment it seems like the only solution is to move to a small market where there's more jobs than programmers. Knew a guy in Columbus, Ohio who was learning javascript and still managed to get a job. I couldn't believe it.
 
Last edited:

kevm3

follower of Jesus
Supporter
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
16,292
Reputation
5,551
Daps
83,494
From where I'm sitting it seems Java is losing steam despite topping the TIOBE index this year. It was primarily used for 4 things: Desktop applications, frontend web development, android, and backend. It has lost prominence in all categories except backend.

Less people are using it for desktop development. C/C++ is faster. The c#/.net ecosystem provides better tooling for windows development. And python's simpler syntax provides better productivity.

For frontend, all of the major browsers have blocked Java and Javascript has surpassed it in usage/popularity: Firefox 52 drops Java plugin support, expands HTTP ‘not secure’ warnings Thanks for no longer supporting Java, now no one using Firefox can use my WordPress blog, which REQUIRES Java. Good job. Opera is now my default browser. | Firefox Support Forum | Mozilla Support

For android development Google officially supports Kotlin:


If you get a job doing Java backend work you'll more than likely work on a legacy enterprise codebase. But these big companies can't rely on old Java technology forever. Eventually they'll have to migrate to something new.



If one were desperate for employment it seems like the only solution is to move to a small market where there's more jobs than programmers. Knew a guy in Columbus, Ohio who was learning javascript and still managed to get a job. I couldn't believe it.


Yep, might have to do a couple of years in a nonpreferential city.
Another solution is to learn an emerging language or tech like dart and google flutter and deploy some projects. That way you arent competing with guys with 5 to 10 years experience.
 

MMA

Superstar
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
5,801
Reputation
2,823
Daps
29,184
This is so true, it's truly what is creating so much struggle in all fields for the current youth coming out of college etc. Companies have no interest in training someone new anymore.
I want to bridge that gap but I know what it's like setting aside hours for someone to learn everything and even wasting your own time for them to up and leave once a year of experience is done to get 10-20K more somewhere else.
 
Last edited:

intruder

SOHH Class of 2003 and CASUAL sports fan
Supporter
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
30,344
Reputation
4,465
Daps
58,056
Reppin
Love
For the brehs in here who are backend web developers

Is Sequelize rally that common in most environment or can you use regual SQL language for your CRUD stuff?

I've always been good at SQL and i have no clue why the fukk they had to come up with Sequelize to supposedly make it simpler but honestly I feel like this shyt makes it harder if anything.
 

Rozay Oro

2 Peter 3:9 if you don’t know God
Supporter
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
41,228
Reputation
5,272
Daps
75,015
For the brehs in here who are backend web developers

Is Sequelize rally that common in most environment or can you use regual SQL language for your CRUD stuff?

I've always been good at SQL and i have no clue why the fukk they had to come up with Sequelize to supposedly make it simpler but honestly I feel like this shyt makes it harder if anything.
I'd quote people if you want an immediate answer
 

kevm3

follower of Jesus
Supporter
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
16,292
Reputation
5,551
Daps
83,494
For the brehs in here who are backend web developers

Is Sequelize rally that common in most environment or can you use regual SQL language for your CRUD stuff?

I've always been good at SQL and i have no clue why the fukk they had to come up with Sequelize to supposedly make it simpler but honestly I feel like this shyt makes it harder if anything.

From what I seen, they try to get away from raw SQL queries and use ORMs of some sort. Reason for that is say you want to migrate from one database to another. There can be differences in SQL between vendors, so you would have to alter a lot of code. On the other hand, with an ORM, it sort of takes care of that for you.

I think it's important to learn and understand the raw SQL output, but definitely learn an ORM.
 
Top