So a Frenchman, Latvian & Spaniard Walk Into Bar, Melo Takes All The Shots Offseason NYK Thread

ikbm

Formerly ikillbabymamas
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Spread Love - The Player Way
I didn't say anything about the Sixers nor Bucks pimp, who's to say that if they can stay healthy or keep their core together. Nobody knows what the landscape will look like in 3-4 years.
true....but theyre in better shape the last few years than the knicks....
they've been the rebuilding (particularly the bucks) and still winning more games than us
and you were sending shots at giannis and embiid all last season
cmon bruh :pachaha:
i aint gotta tag witnesses
 

#SOG_soldier

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It just occurred to me that the THJR contract is actually a contract that might make sense for the Knicks.

First off, the Knicks are not going to be good in the next 4 years. As they've already announced, they're going "young." So the fact that you tie up $71 million dollars in a player like THJR does look excessive in a vacuum, but within context, what's the alternative? Where else do you spend the $71 to get back clear superior value as the Knicks? For this summer and the next 3 summers who are the free agent targets that the Knicks have any hope at all of signing, especially with the current Warriors situation? Even if hypothetically they can land some impact players over the next 3 summers, to what end will that be? To be a mid tier playoff team in the east like Miami?

Your three best assets are 23 and younger. Your best asset is 21. 4 years takes him right into the beginning of his prime. People try to imagine what THJR real ceiling is (20, 4, 4?), and think can it justify this deal, and realistically, that would justify the deal. But even if he stayed where he currently is, what's the worse case scenario? The knicks get 3 lottery picks over the next three years? They'll probably get at least 2 lottery picks over the span of his deal even his exceeds all expectations.

Realistically what is the Knicks primary goal right now? It's simple, re-sign Kristaps to a max deal in 2 years when his rookie deal is up. That's it! Knicks have no other realistic goals between now and then but to create an attractive situation for Kristaps to re-sign to in 2 years.

So best case scenario, THJR's deal ends when Kristaps will be 25, hopefully already re-signed to a max contract extension; Frank will be 22, hopefully developing into a nice piece; the Knicks will have been bad for 3 seasons but trending in the right direction having made 3 lottery selections, hopefully with 1 or 2 of them trending into a quality player. You go into free agency when THJR's contract is expiring with the Warriors dominance over the NBA winding down, Lebron likely retiring, with a very strong core of young players ready to attract the quality players who were drafted this year (2017) who are coming off of their rookie deals for the first time.

What's so bad about that? And if you got something negative to say about, what was the alternative that would make a CLEAR positive impact over this signing?
Exactly just sign young pieces and build a culture. I think Jeff will get the best outta these young players. Especially with the way he runs his offense.
 

DPresidential

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Right, but young players who love to compete kind of conflicts with full tank mode sentiments of 25% of this thread no?

That's kind of my point:
25% of this thread wants to bottom out every year for the next 3-4 years at 15 wins or less. But then they complain, laugh, and point finguers when the knicks make all the wrong possible moves.
25% of this thread wants young players who compete. But then you guys don't admit that young players that compete and can't win is just tanking with flair. And then you can't admit that young players that compete and can't win aren't worth being in the NBA
25% of this thread is fine fielding a 1st round and done team.
25% of this thread wants to max out the salary and trade all picks to give melo and KP the best chance to win now

Of those 4 groups, the only thing you guys agree on is that KP is a great player.

Some of y'all love melo, but wanna tank, but don't want to admit that tanking tarnishes Melo's image in the media and basketball credibility
Some of y'all love KP, but wanna tank, but get all :damn: when KP ignores the team all summer because of the dysfunction

Matter or fact, that's where the delusion comes in. Half of this thread wants a peaceful and productive tank "process". It's a complete pipe dream.

Half this thread wants Melo and KP to accept losing, while developing young hungry players who compete, young hungry players who are not allowed to win more than 15 games, but somehow every one remains happy and thankful for the opportunity of playing in NY, every one has the talent to kick it into playoff mode in 4 years, free agents look past the tank mode seasons, and other teams and the media stop laughing at our franchises dysfunctional ways.

It's a clusterfukk in here.
Great post.

My best attempt ----


Start ----> Keep the analytics guys happy by going full rebuild, albeit they won't be perfectly happy because ---> keep hardcore l want my players/team to try to win fans happy by signing guys who will still play game 82 hard as hell even if they lost the last 81, albeit the won't be perfectly happy because ----> keep I LOVE WATCHING PLAYERS DEVELOP fans happy by keeping a project type player out there in crunch time so he gets that experience even though we might lose, albeit they won't be perfectly happy because ---> keep I'm Loyal to veteran Knicks players fans happy by not disrespecting their contribution to the profession and their career by not completely isolating said veterans and providing as well of a fine-tuned environment when they are here, albeit they won't be perfectly happy because ----> Collect $200 and GO BACK TO START

I agree. You HAVE to attempt to intersect as many of those categories as possible.

Listen, this IS ENTERTAINMENT.

I mean, for the most analytical people - yes, straight up Philly style tanking is the best way to get the next Warriors squad. When you look at NY media, which has a lot of influence, they don't even know what angle they are criticizing from. I guarantee you even though Mills said basically that he's in full rebuild mode, if the Knicks win 5 games this year and get the no.1 pick, they will make it out to be a failure of NY goals. NY Media affects fans and they don't want to just straight up do everything to lose in the best way.

There are fans like me who really are coming around to the excitement of the lottery but at least want to see brehs and the coach trying to win the particular game said fan decides to watch or purchase a ticket to.

If I take my boys to the game next year, I'm hoping the knicks trail by 10, make a late 4th quarter run, start showing glimpses of future greatness and as me and my kids are at the edge of our seats, Porzingis hits the game winner so me and my boys can talk about it until they fall asleep in the car. And every night, there are a gang of fans like that.

With that being said, strictly focusing on young, competitive prospects, with fan favorite potential allows multiple fans to find SOMETHING to root for.

I do think it's possible to make multiple groups of fans happy, but they just have to look at the forest instead of the trees.
 

I.V.

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First off, the Knicks are not going to be good in the next 4 years. As they've already announced, they're going "young." So the fact that you tie up $71 million dollars in a player like THJR does look excessive in a vacuum, but within context, what's the alternative? Where else do you spend the $71 to get back clear superior value as the Knicks?

I would spend that 71 million (or similar cap space) absorbing picks and bad contracts. The Carroll deal being an example of how to extract picks to help people clear space. That is the new currency and the way business is done in the NBA.

The problem with the Hardaway deal is you overpaid on the bet that he's going to get better. But BY overpaying, you end up eliminating a lot of the value, even if he does improve. At 17M per, he would have to become a perennial all star to feel like you got a good deal for his contract. To feel like he OUT-PLAYED $17M per year.

That is not smart business. That is why I don't like the deal. I DO like putting young talent next to KP. I like putting some of that young talent on the wing, as a scorer to take the pressure of Porzingis, especially if Melo gets bounced.

But I care about value, because getting better value for your deals allows for better fitment and a stronger overall roster.

I'm going to try to go with a metaphor here, and it won't exactly be 1-to-1, but bear with me:

Picture buying a brand new Benz, you go for an AMG E Class with some fixings. Acoustic Sound package, Panoramic Moon roof, 20" wheels with the black accents, got the Logos all deleted so the shyt is looking mad mysterious, but also has a sense of grandiose and poise. You opt for tan leather on the inside, for a touch of class, the seats are ventilated and heated, and the Black paint has a slight metallic tone.

It is a dream ride for some, right. And for $80K it's a lot of money, but you know what that thing can do... and it is a fine piece of german engineering. You know how it will perform on the road, you know how it will make you feel to drive and own, and you know how people are going to react when they see you in it. There is upside there, a car is social status, and it brings some gravitas when you hop out of that thing for a meeting.

But the thing is, your apartment isn't that nice. Maybe it's in a decent neighborhood, but the truth is if you pick somebody in your car, and then bring them to THAT apartment, there is going to be a definite discord. Like, the car can help you, but only so much.

Wouldn't it be a smarter move to pick up a used E class from 2014 or 2015? Save the extra $30K+, and maybe use, let's say HALF of that money, to a nicer apartment building? Maybe also upgrade your wardrobe? Hit up suit supply, grab a nice fit off the rack, get it tailored, maybe come some AE's on sale... now when you roll up to the work meeting you look great, your car is still impressive, and if you happen to get a number at the bar, during that post-meeting drink, you bring somebody back to your place, and the place confirms that you are a person of taste, means, thoughtfulness, and above-average love-making performance.

:merchant:

Aaaaaanyway.

Basically what I'm saying is, I don't like the idea of paying a premium for a commodity that may not be able to move the needle on its own, when that flexibility allows you to accrue multiple assets at once, all of which will help you more, long term. Tim is great, but by the time this team is any good, assuming that was because he made a great leap, and is now WORTH that contract, we'll have to pay him again as he opts out.
 

nyknick

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We have to get Dolan out of here which in turn would clear every one else out so we can start fresh:snoop:
Dolan is 62 so it's possible for him to go for another 15 years. I think he has 6 kids and with our luck the biggest fukk up out of the bunch will probably take control of the team, if we even live long enough to see it.
 

Ironman

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Dolan is 62 so it's possible for him to go for another 15 years. I think he has 6 kids and with our luck the biggest fukk up out of the bunch will probably take control of the team, if we even live long enough to see it.
I'm going to die without seeing a title :snoop::mjcry::wow:
 

DPresidential

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@I.V. nice analogy.
But...

Isn't tanking sort of saying, let's defraud welfare by reaping a benefit when I know I could actually do better and on the mean time I'm going to cop the Benz anyway and save up the other income to get the Brownstone after welfare that probably should have went to another person helped me save up for when I'm ready?

:troll:
 

I.V.

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@I.V. nice analogy.
But...

Isn't tanking sort of saying, let's defraud welfare by reaping a benefit when I know I could actually do better and on the mean time I'm going to cop the Benz anyway and save up the other income to get the Brownstone after welfare that probably should have went to another person helped me save up for when I'm ready?

:troll:


Only if you know you won't get caught. :smugdraper:
 
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