SI: Tim Duncan hates Kevin Garnett

[Angel On The Rag]

There actually is a pretty big difference in the skills that Duncan and Garnett possess. One is a low post player and the other isn't but both can do what the other does but not as "effective"

 

[Wayans Brehs]

I don't think Pierce is better than KG. Pierce gave the fans more memorable moments. That's all I was referring too.

Yea I know you weren't saying Pierce > KG but I did miss that you were simply referring to memorable moments. All good.

 

[Rekkapryde]

@ anyone thinking KG > Timmy.

Negs need to be handed out....

 

[Malta]

1 hunnid. Just to add some quick analysis

To me if we are looking at KG and Duncan individually, they impact the game the same way. One of the main arguments for Duncan vs KG seems to be the way their offensive games contrast. A lot of people think Duncan posting up = Duncan being a better scorer and/or having more impact. Excuse me if I'm wrong but I don't buy this at all. Garnett managed to put up similar #s on similar efficiency while shooting turnaround jumpers. KG holds a respectable ~55% career TS and managed to command so much attention that he was averaging 5 and even 6 assists in his prime years (averages 4 for his career as a PF). Putting this in perspective, Duncan doesn't have a single year where he even averaged 4. Factoring the teams that these guys have had around them makes this even more impressive.

It IS true that KG did have some pretty good teams in Minny and simply couldn't get it done though. shyt happens. To me this shouldn't be a slight on KG. Instead, big up Duncan for getting it done even when the odds seemed against him (03). I will always concede Duncan being the better player because of that year. He rose to the occasion more than a few times that year and in general and as a result won ring after ring.

Here's some cold hard numbers going back to 2003 -

03 -
KG - 23% of shots inside paint, 59% of all shots assisted
Duncan - 40% of shots inside paint, 46% of all shots assisted

04 -
KG - 25% of shots inside the paint, 67% of all shots assisted
Duncan - 44% inside the paint, 53% of shots assisted


05
KG - 31% of shots inside the paint, 66% of all shots assisted
Duncan - 42% of shots inside the paint, 51% of all shots assisted


06
KG - 30% of shots inside the paint, 61% of total shots assisted
Duncan - 44% of shots inside the paint, 50% of all shots assisted

07

KG - 23% of shots inside the paint, 60% of total shots assisted
Duncan - 49% of shots inside the paint, 46% of total shots assisted




Should I go on, or do you get the point? One of them battles in the paint and scores buckets on his own without someone else creating for him, while the other shoots jumpers and only plays in the paint sometimes. Duncan's low post game, and his ability to create on the low post, and the ball movement that comes from those kickouts is why he is better.

Give me a low post scoring big over a versatile jumpshooting big any day of the week.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I didn't touch defense because they are both big time there. I would say KG is better because the 08 Celtics were one of the best defenses ever but I'm admittedly biased towards KG because of what he's done for the Celtics. A little strange that Duncan doesn't have a DPOY under his belt.

Come on bruh. KG was never a better defender than Duncan in their primes. He might be now though. Could KG guard prime Shaq one-on-one in a playoff series?

 

[Wayans Brehs]

Here's some cold hard numbers going back to 2003 -

03 -
KG - 23% of shots inside paint, 59% of all shots assisted
Duncan - 40% of shots inside paint, 46% of all shots assisted

04 -
KG - 25% of shots inside the paint, 67% of all shots assisted
Duncan - 44% inside the paint, 53% of shots assisted


05
KG - 31% of shots inside the paint, 66% of all shots assisted
Duncan - 42% of shots inside the paint, 51% of all shots assisted


06
KG - 30% of shots inside the paint, 61% of total shots assisted
Duncan - 44% of shots inside the paint, 50% of all shots assisted

07

KG - 23% of shots inside the paint, 60% of total shots assisted
Duncan - 49% of shots inside the paint, 46% of total shots assisted




Should I go on, or do you get the point? One of them battles in the paint and scores buckets on his own without someone else creating for him, while the other shoots jumpers and only plays in the paint sometimes. Duncan's low post game, and his ability to create on the low post, and the ball movement that comes from those kickouts is why he is better.

Give me a low post scoring big over a versatile jumpshooting big any day of the week.

Nope. I see your point 100%. In fact I'm not surprised. I'm well aware that KG gets assisted on a lot of his shots. Most big men do.. especially jumpshooting ones.

What I am wondering however, is how your research refutes my point about the impact of KG though? Putting up 20/10 while outside of the paint is the exact same 20/10 put up in the post. The assists show that KG was somehow was able to create MORE opportunities for his teammates than Duncan in spite of not playing down low as much. The post play difference isn't nearly as significant as many Duncan advocates would lead you to believe. Plain and simple.

 

[Wayans Brehs]

Come on bruh. KG was never a better defender than Duncan in their primes. He might be now though. Could KG guard prime Shaq one-on-one in a playoff series?

shyt... beats me KG was rail thin so he didn't go up against centers much until now so who knows

Guy was and still is a monster though

 

[malbaker86]

I'll miss them both when they're both gone in 2-3 years though


we ALL can agree on that

 

[Wayans Brehs]

And for the record, on average, yes I would take the post play big over the jumpshooting one. But KG isn't just any jumpshooting big. The guy is one of the best bigs to ever play

 

[I.V.]

Nope. I see your point 100%. In fact I'm not surprised. I'm well aware that KG gets assisted on a lot of his shots. Most big men do.. especially jumpshooting ones.

What I am wondering however, is how your research refutes my point about the impact of KG though?

He showed you that - historically - you can put the ball in Duncan's hands, and he can get you buckets.

Whereas you have to put Garnett in a position to score - swinging it to him for open kickout jumpers from 17 feet, picking and popping, or driving and dishing it to him for the easy 2.

One creates nearly half of his own baskets, one has to be created FOR 2/3's of the time.

 

[CHICAGO]

THE POST PLAYER HAS SHOT BELOW 50% 7 SEASONS IN HIS CAREER THOUGH.



​

 

[Wayans Brehs]

He showed you that - historically - you can put the ball in Duncan's hands, and he can get you buckets.

Whereas you have to put Garnett in a position to score - swinging it to him for open kickout jumpers from 17 feet, picking and popping, or driving and dishing it to him for the easy 2.

One creates nearly half of his own baskets, one has to be created FOR 2/3's of the time.

Yet in the end, both end up putting the same #s on the board

God bless

Nah but ya'll make a good point with that obviously. Just putting in my piece about the impact of their play. I already said Duncan is better and that I also prefer a post player to a jumpshooter. What more do yall want

 

[Malta]

Nope. I see your point 100%. In fact I'm not surprised. I'm well aware that KG gets assisted on a lot of his shots. Most big men do.. especially jumpshooting ones.

What I am wondering however, is how your research refutes my point about the impact of KG though? Putting up 20/10 while outside of the paint is the exact same 20/10 put up in the post. The assists show that KG was somehow was able to create MORE opportunities for his teammates than Duncan in spite of not playing down low as much. The post play difference isn't nearly as significant as many Duncan advocates would lead you to believe. Plain and simple.

The impact is from the ball movement that comes from kicking out a double from the low block, just because Duncan wasn't racking up assists doesn't mean his pass out of a double had no impact. It's from the constant pressure applied on the defense from having an offensive threat 14 and in, it's why even though his offense is crude as hell Dwight has such a big impact on the game today. Sending a double down on someone that knows how to pass out of the double and has shooters waiting outside is far more devastating than what KG brought to the table.

You can't downplay the importance of a post game, far too many rings are the results of dudes taking lesser men into the torture rack on that low block.


Ps. If 55% TS is so great, why isn't Shareef Abdur Rahim one of the greatest PFs ever? Gaudy numbers, great TS, and very little impact on the game.

 

[Malta]

THE POST PLAYER HAS SHOT BELOW 50% 7 SEASONS IN HIS CAREER THOUGH.



​

The post player was creating for himself......

 

[Wayans Brehs]

The impact is from the ball movement that comes from kicking out a double from the low block, just because Duncan wasn't racking up assists doesn't mean his pass out of a double had no impact. It's from the constant pressure applied on the defense from having an offensive threat 14 and in, it's why even though his offense is crude as hell Dwight has such a big impact on the game today. Sending a double down on someone that knows how to pass out of the double and has shooters waiting outside is far more devastating than what KG brought to the table.

You can't downplay the importance of a post game, far too many rings are the results of dudes taking lesser men into the torture rack on that low block.


Ps. If 55% TS is so great, why isn't Shareef Abdur Rahim one of the greatest PFs ever? Gaudy numbers, great TS, and very little impact on the game.

At the bold, I obviously agree. However I HAD to use assists as my crutch as it's pretty much the only objective thing I could use when discussing creating opportunities for others. My main point with the assists... KG was able to force doubles and use kick outs to his advantage even though he wasn't on the block as much as a guy like Duncan

Post play is important. Agreed.

As far as the true shooting, Duncan has the same TS pretty much. I only listed it to show that KG basically as efficient as Duncan while being further away from the basket. You indirectly countered with your post on baskets assisted. Fine.

Shareef though?