BlackAchilles
Veteran
Also: Anjin-san was definitely a pirate right?
Shogun (FX/Hulu) - February 2024 :ohhh:
- Thread starter Jmare007
- Start date
Json
Superstar
I mean, he and the other regents are still pledged to fight for Ishido I think. Ochiba assured Toranaga secretly that the heir’s army won’t fight.
So I guess he will lose and have to kill himself
Json
Superstar
Nah.
He had papers and flew under a nation’s banner I believe.
He just wasn’t a merchant or military vessel.
He was a privateer/ mercenary
Neo. The Only. The One.
THE ONE
did I misunderstand the ending? I thought once Ochiba removed the heirs banners, that meant that Ishido would no longer have the law on his side and that meant he would have to stand down and surrender.
EzekelRAGE
Superstar
No, he was just on a mission to destroy christian stuff from how I read the situation
Nah, it was said that once the heir removed his banners, the other regents would turn on Ishido. Ochiba siding with Ishido was the only thing keeping the other regents from turning on Ishido for the shyt he did (holding their family hostage/ denouncing the christian shyt etc).
BlackAchilles
Veteran
That's what I figured, although depending on who ones asking he could def be considered a pirate
Neo. The Only. The One.
THE ONE
No, he was just on a mission to destroy christian stuff from how I read the situation
Nah, it was said that once the heir removed his banners, the other regents would turn on Ishido. Ochiba siding with Ishido was the only thing keeping the other regents from turning on Ishido for the shyt he did (holding their family hostage/ denouncing the christian shyt etc).
So that brings us back to my question. Toranaga brothers family wasn't hostage and he wasn't a Christian. So does he stay and fight alongside Ishido?
Json
Superstar
Ishido isn’t going march out to the field with no army. So I’m guessing once they are out there is when he will find the rug pulled out from under him like in the “vision” Toranga told.
The other regents don’t know about the heir’s army so they would all find out at the same time.
So they still pledged their armies to Ishido.
EzekelRAGE
Superstar
Nope, he most likely gonna follow the other regents and lady ochiba. Ochiba/the heir the only "good" side in this.
The fact that Toranaga used his brother to give Ishido the declaration of war letter leads me to believe Toranaga would let his brother live. He probably sees what Saeki did as part of the game.
Im trying to think, I dont think Saeki did anything thing betrayal wise on the level of Yas. Ishido just got to him first and offered him a better deal.
Json
Superstar
No I don’t think so.
The council’s job was to protect the throne for the heir. Ishido and Ochiba keep trying to find people who would vote that Toranaga had become a threat to the heir.
Crimson Sky was meant to undermine council’s authority as legitimate in the eyes of noble houses. That they were no longer following this order so having Ochiba denounce the war would mean Ishido had no leg to stand on to ask for people to support killing Toranaga.
Ishido’s men still follow his orders, like with Mariko at the gate, but they would be outnumbered and have no one to ask for help.
EzekelRAGE
Superstar
No, they didnt pledge their armies to Ishido, they pledged it to the heir and the banner. That's why it was so important for Ishido to have the banner. The banner legitimizes their side and makes toranaga's side the bad side.
The vision showed that once the banner isnt present for Ishido, they would turn on Ishido on the field.
least that's how I saw it, they would turn on him on the battlefield.
Json
Superstar
I’m not a naval historian but just what I remember from history classes.
Pirates just took whatever they wanted
Privateers had agreements for payment. The amount of ships they sunk or a percentage of what was on the vessel.
Digital Omen
All Star
No, they didnt pledge their armies to Ishido, they pledged it to the heir and the banner. That's why it was so important for Ishido to have the banner. The banner legitimizes their side and makes toranaga's side the bad side.
The vision showed that once the banner isnt present for Ishido, they would turn on Ishido on the field.
least that's how I saw it, they would turn on him on the battlefield.
Yeah, once the heir removes his banner the other regents would stand down, go home, etc
they would look at Ishido going head up with Toronaga and hit the
Of course, after Toronaga puts Ishido's head on a spike the other regents would quickly submit to the gawd
Json
Superstar
No, they didnt pledge their armies to Ishido, they pledged it to the heir and the banner. That's why it was so important for Ishido to have the banner. The banner legitimizes their side and makes toranaga's side the bad side.
The vision showed that once the banner isnt present for Ishido, they would turn on Ishido on the field.
least that's how I saw it, they would turn on him on the battlefield.
The battle is a month away. The council is still under the impression they are acting under his banner. Ochiba could have simply announced at any time “ nah fam” and this is over like Mariko said.
The letter Ishido reads on the battlefield is letting him know what is going on. His only option is to pull back. He already knows Mariko’s death angered the regents and noble houses. The banners aren’t there cause they aren’t going to fight, The soldiers are there most likely though.
Just like the permit stopped Mariko from committing seppuku, declaring an action doesn’t mean you can’t stop. Toranaga is giving him the chance to step back.
thats how I read it.
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That's a pirate
