Of course, I am talking about at the highest of levels. I am not speaking in general. We are talking about two high end QB prospects. My expectations are sky high for both
This is like a Bron v. MJ debate. We are talking about this best of the best.
Shedeur Sanders vs Caleb Williams as NFL prospects
- Thread starter Apprentice
- Start date
This is like a Bron v. MJ debate. We are talking about this best of the best.
Dr. Narcisse
Veteran
Lowkey think the poor drafts of offensive skill positions is catching up with the Chiefs. I mean they could have drafted George Pickens or even a Christian Watson. Instead went defense (which is cool).
Now its a bunch of small fast guys that just arent replicating Tyreke. Mahomes/Reid greatness overcame it last year but they are running a risk this year.
DropTopDoc
20/20 Vision With my Buffs On
West Coast Avenger
West Coastin & Smokin
....some of you nikkaz just try way to hard.....
I go by prototypes. That's how Baker who was an elite college QB has just been a decent at best QB in the NFL.
Baker was a balanced QB at OU. He wasn't athletic enough in the NFL to be that. He didn't have the cognitive ability and processing speed to be an elite pocket passer so he just didn't translate.
Caleb for the most part is a mobile QB who likes to operate as a balanced QB when he has a clean pocket. He has his flaws but his ability to do both at this level gives him such an edge.
That said, mobile QBs really have to get a good OC. Most OCs in the NFL are build to deal with pocket passers or game managers. Balanced QBs take the longest to bake but they are also the best when developed.
It's not easy to be a mobile QB and not all of them translate. I had Justin Fields as an elite mobile QB prospect and he hasn't been anywhere close to that. He's basically a running QB in the NFL but running QBs are require a specific type of coach who can deal with that type of QB.
Talent is only so much in this league. It's about fit and coaching. OCs in the NFL are insanely smart and gifted but they struggle with genius. They do better with the he's basically a 2nd coach type of QBs. They see eye to eye with them. Not everyone will handle Caleb well. Don't assume because of USC, it's going to be seamless.
Apprentice
RIP Doughboy Roc
Naw he not better than Penix, Maye, or Leonard fr fr
Dr. Narcisse
Veteran
Imo what Sanders is doing schematically is no different that what Caleb is doing.
The only difference is Sanders is working with less so he's better built to deal with tougher circumstances and having to really work on processsing.
The TWO issues though imo.
Sanders actually isnt doing more than Caleb when he actually should. Because the windows are tighter, because their is a lesser Oline, he should be throwing more with anticipation, navigating the pocket, etc etc.
Right now they are just doing typical air raid stuff of if we throw it enough the defense will tire down and make mistakes eventually. They should let Shedeur throw more over the middle of the field. Not care about his completion % with all these check downs and instead challenge himself to throw more tight window throws. Right now he's either throwing short passes or throwing deep passes.
The other issue though is as of now Im not sure he's twitchy enough. Caleb is very twitchy so even if he's not using the proper eye movement to find his reads he can still create out of structure. Ideally there's enough there to work with to get him to work within structure at a high level one day.
Right now Shedeur seems heavy footed like Jameis was. Its why Shedeur retreats when there is pressure and doesnt slide (when his Oline gives him a throwing lane) to throw the ball. Shedeur got the easier/smoother throwing motion so he wont have the issues Jameis has in terms of being rushed and his accuracy failing.
However, he's not as twitchy as Geno was in college (yet). And frankly Im so use to even the pocket passing QBs like Darnold having really good athleticism that its jarring to see Shedeur lumber out there (until he gets up to speed).
Hopefully he spends more time working with Brady on footwork. They gotta get him lighter on his feet so he can reach his full potential.
The only difference is Sanders is working with less so he's better built to deal with tougher circumstances and having to really work on processsing.
The TWO issues though imo.
Sanders actually isnt doing more than Caleb when he actually should. Because the windows are tighter, because their is a lesser Oline, he should be throwing more with anticipation, navigating the pocket, etc etc.
Right now they are just doing typical air raid stuff of if we throw it enough the defense will tire down and make mistakes eventually. They should let Shedeur throw more over the middle of the field. Not care about his completion % with all these check downs and instead challenge himself to throw more tight window throws. Right now he's either throwing short passes or throwing deep passes.
The other issue though is as of now Im not sure he's twitchy enough. Caleb is very twitchy so even if he's not using the proper eye movement to find his reads he can still create out of structure. Ideally there's enough there to work with to get him to work within structure at a high level one day.
Right now Shedeur seems heavy footed like Jameis was. Its why Shedeur retreats when there is pressure and doesnt slide (when his Oline gives him a throwing lane) to throw the ball. Shedeur got the easier/smoother throwing motion so he wont have the issues Jameis has in terms of being rushed and his accuracy failing.
However, he's not as twitchy as Geno was in college (yet). And frankly Im so use to even the pocket passing QBs like Darnold having really good athleticism that its jarring to see Shedeur lumber out there (until he gets up to speed).
Hopefully he spends more time working with Brady on footwork. They gotta get him lighter on his feet so he can reach his full potential.
You’re blaming other people for your personal inability to communicate coherently and effectively like a child yet lecturing about what adults do, nah nikka it don’t work like that …what YOU wrote sounded amateur, buffoonish and incompetent… What YOU wrote doesn’t sound like an individual that’s worth listening to at all tbh… especially without having a resume we can cross reference it’s practically worthless information .. That’s not the next man’s fault …that’s your problem and your deficiency and apparently speaks to the ineptness of your mystery “coach” friend…. You can’t even be accountable yet expect anyone to think the rest of this shyt is worth reading? Lmao … good luck to your “friend” this season tho
he sounds like he needs it
For college QBs, these are some of the best we have seen. Shedeur has everything you want from a college prospect who's a pocket passer. The only thing you want more is him being a better game manager. If you can get that package, he will fly off the boards.Bron vs MJ
Aight bruh
For me
Tier 1
1. 2
2. Caleb
Tier 2
3. Penix
4. Maye
Tier 3
No one for now
Tier 4
5. Ewers
6. Rattler
7. Ward who I am still closely evaluating
Then you got guys I can't get a grade on like JJ, Pratt, DJ, Nix, etc.
I'll take 2 over any pocket passing prospect other than Burrow in the last 10 years. There hasn't been many over the last 10 years that's 1st rounders as teams have gone away from pocket passers in the 1st but he's definitely the best after Burrow. Even have him higher than Stroud.
Could Caleb end up being the goat, possibly but how do we know right now. We don't, it's the unknown.
The issue I have with this is it just misses a lot.
2 is a better passer. He's much smarter. He processes much faster. When he hits his last drop, he's always finished with his progressions and reset his progression or waiting for a route to be completed where he can time it correctly. He makes better decisions. He's more more composed than Williams. He's superior within the pocket. He makes his OL look better than what they are. Williams by his player type does as well but he's not like that in the pocket.
You talk about heavy footed. I see exceptional footwork speed in the pocket. Now when he's moving laterally is it good, no but that's more agility based and it's a mobile QB or balanced QB skill. Footwork speed and technique is what's critical to me since he's a pocket passer. What messes up Jameis is his feet are slow, his technique is better than 2 but when you have slow footwork like him and Leftwich, the defense is generally in your grill before you compete your drop.
He isn't the level of athlete that Geno and it doesn't really matter. Unlike Geno, he's was world class are presnap reads as a true freshman. He's just mentally on another level. His post snap reads are much better right now than Geno.
Shedeur's footwork technique is the area where I want to see the most growth but it takes time. Rarely do you see a college kid with exceptional footwork technique. Josh Rosen had it but he had horrendous footwork speed which killed him in the NFL.
He's just a massively better player than most of the guys you named. He's got aways to go but there might be a chance he could be seen in regard to Brady. He's got a lot to work on
Grades don't lie, this kid is the real deal.
DropTopDoc
20/20 Vision With my Buffs On
I want to ask if you trolling, but you gon die on this hill, ok man, everyone is entitled to their opinion
Trojan 24
Veteran
Here's the reality of Sheduer to start this year. Good game against TCU, shaky start at Nebraska, played like shyt for 58 minutes against CSU before they handed away the game and he stat padded in the OTs, was embarrassing against Oregon and finally was horrible for a half against USC before Grinch got to work.
He has skills and will get better, but he hasn't been lights out or even close to it
He has skills and will get better, but he hasn't been lights out or even close to it
I don't give a fukk about your opinion. fukk you! Speak your peace, I'll speak mines