She looks like she belongs in ancient Egypt

Bawon Samedi

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Err....Ethiopian groups like Agews/Ethio Jews, Amharas and others carry A3b2 at close to 40% frequencies.
So? That was most likely distributed to them by Nilo-Saharan speaking populations. Some Zulu's carry B-M109. Doesn't mean they're nilotic but it was distributed to them.

Additionally, your Ev32 map post in itself showed that after Somalis, one of the largest percentage of Ev32 is found among Darfurian Nilo-Sahran Sudanis.
It has been suggested that they're a recent bottleneck.

Anyway Admixture autosomal looks at full ancestry which is much more accurate rather than Y-Chrocosmes which could easily be affected by Bottlenecks and represents likely less than 1% of one's genetics a lot of times, Autosomal looks at the full picture.
Some Bantu populations have Nilo-Saharan admixture, doesn't mean they are. Of course Somalis and other Horners would have Nilo-Saharan admixture considering the horn has a significant umber Nilo-Saharan speakers.
 

Premeditated

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:mindblown::scust:You didn't even challenged what I said about the kohl and henna or the other facts. So much delusion. And the genetic evidence is non existent. What we do kmow is that Nubians were slaves inanvient egyptian society. And according to you they were also the ruling class....despite the fact that ancient egyptian differentiated themselves from the people and the land of kush.
why haven't you addressed this post yet @isthisreallife :whistle:

why on earth do you keep ignoring the dna results?
Actually they have!:biggrin:

King Tut's family were DNA tested by Zahi Hawass in this 2010 study.
hawass2010f101.gif

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185393

Zahi Hawass didn't like the findings and so he never revealed the population affinities.

Until DNAtribes THEMSELVES ran the STR values(obtained by Zahi Hawass people) into their computer to determind the population affinity which was this!
dnatribes.jpg


DNAtribes basically said. "this is how you do it retards". So yeah even though Zahi Hawass himself didn't reveal the population affinity and publish it, we can still do it OURSELVES like DNAtribies. All you need is just to be the STR values into a computer. Simple.
 

Bawon Samedi

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Your man @KidStranglehold said Egyptians portrayed Nubian as primitive because they were dark skinned though.

Negged for putting words in my mouth. That's a new low. I clearly elaborated that it had NOTHING to do with skin tone and that the Ancient Egyptians did that with ALL their enemies. Because the Egyptians thought of themselves as superior. And I even showed you that the Ancient Egyptians painted some of themselves as pitch black. Further proving it had nothing to do with dark skin. We even came to some sort of agreement. So now we're lying now?

I think about done with this thread, it seems people are just interested in trolling/lying now.
 

GetInTheTruck

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Negged for putting words in my mouth. That's a new low. I clearly elaborated that it had NOTHING to do with skin tone and that the Ancient Egyptians did that with ALL their enemies. Because the Egyptians thought of themselves as superior. And I even showed you that the Ancient Egyptians painted some of themselves as pitch black. Further proving it had nothing to do with dark skin. We even came to some sort of agreement. So now we're lying now?

I think about done with this thread, it seems people are just interested in trolling/lying now.

I didn't put words in your mouth the posts are here in the thread. Son posted that pic of Ramses going to war with some dark Nubians to prove his point and you responded by saying Oh they only look like that because they were enemies, so it was the product of a stereotypical depiction. Thats what you said. Then you danced around the matter and ignored my response to you.

You can neg me all you want, won't change anything.
 

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So? That was most likely distributed to them by Nilo-Saharan speaking populations. Some Zulu's carry B-M109. Doesn't mean they're nilotic but it was distributed to them.
Err....of course, that's what I was suggesting. Other haplogroups (Mainly of Caucasian and Omotic origin) were distributed by those groups to Narrow featured Horners. The main point being Cush*c is a mixed component in reality.


It has been suggested that they're a recent bottleneck.

Just Like Somalis then... Anyway the northern Nile valley origin of E-V32 cannot be denied. K too is hypothesised to have come to the Horn from the Nilley valley with it coming from the Sinai and Fertile crecent into Egypt and then the Sudan & Horn.

Some Bantu populations have Nilo-Saharan admixture, doesn't mean they are. Of course Somalis and other Horners would have Nilo-Saharan admixture considering the horn has a significant umber Nilo-Saharan speakers.
Er... according that study they are 40-50% Nilo-Saharan, the rest of their ancestry is Omotic and Caucasian which is exactly what I suggested. Nilo-Saharans are a parent population to narrow featured Horners. No Bantu group carrys Nilotic at 50% rates. Max is 20% and even then, there is at least a principle BANTU Component (Cameroonians might be a good representative of it), Cush*tic seems to be a mixed component at the basic level of Omotic-Nilotic and Caucasian with roughly no principle base.
 

Bawon Samedi

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And just so people understand my argument. No I am not dismissing Afro-Asiatic influence in Egypt. The Egyptians spoke the language so obviously there was influence. What I am just saying nilotic trumped it and it also trumped the Niger-Congo influence. This is because Nilotic people were the oldest people on the Nile:

To sum up, Nubia is Egypt’s African ancestor. What linked Ancient Egypt to the rest of the North African cultures is this strong tie with the Nubian pastoral nomadic lifestyle, the same pastoral background commonly shared by most of the ancient Saharan and modern sub-Saharan societies. Thus, not only did Nubia have a prominent role in the origin of Ancient Egypt, it was also a key area for the origin of the entire African pastoral tradition.
http://www.academia.edu/545582/The_..._Africa_A_View_from_the_Archaeological_Record

Accordingly, through limited on number of aDNA samples, there is enough data to suggest and to tally with the historical evidence of the dominance by Nilotic elements during the early state formation in the Nile Valley, and as the states thrived there was a dominance by other elements particularly Nuba / Nubians. In Y-chromosome terms this mean in simplest terms introgression of the YAP insertion (haplogroups E and D), and Eurasian Haplogroups which are defined by F-M89 against a background of haplogroup A-M13.
http://etd2.uofk.edu/view_etd.php?etd_details=4312


the question of the origin of the royal ‘ka’ and the other concerns the origin of the red and white crowns. Wilkinson presents strong evidence that Naqada I was an archetypal representative of the traditional African cattle-culture, a type of society that still exists in a remarkably pure form in the southern Sudan, despite years of civil war. Among Sudanese Nilotes, cattle are raised as symbols of wealth, as the medium for all social transactions (like marriage), and as sources of renewable food (blood and milk). The people rarely kill cattle for meat, which they obtain by hunting wild game. Wilkinson’s overview of the evidence for Naqada I transhumance and cattle burial, coupled with his analysis of the rock art, suggests that Egyptian civilization sprang from a society of broadly similar characteristics. Cows with artificially deformed horns, so common among Nilotes today, are often featured in the early rock art of Egypt and Sudan as well as in Egyptian dynastic art (Kendall 1989, 680–88, fig. 1, 9–12). Even the historic Egyptian symbols of royal office — the crook and the flail — recall a time when the king was seen as the chief herdsman of his people.
http://wysinger.homestead.com/crown.html

In simple words it would have Nilo-Saharan/Nilotic>Afro-Asiatic>Niger-Congo.
 

Raptor

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Why does this dude keep quoting me? :what:


And without published books or academic journals I might add :mindblown:
So, as I've just before as I've said a million times already, ancient Egypt was a multicultural society, there's a good chance there's ssa input . And what "journals have you supplied to the thread, there's a host of info on this thread.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4631043/1/
The mummies in the studies don't resemble full SSA, they have uncoiled flowing hair. You've provided one flimsy proof from a report that wasn't peer reviewed. And yet still most who specialise in ancient Egypt would consider your premise as merely facetious.
 

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It's junk. It flies completely in the face of genetic and anthropological studies regarding NE Africa and vicinity.

You need a minimum of 13 core STR loci to determine an individuals genetic profile. (Butler, Forensic DNA Typing: Biology, Technology, and Genetics of STR Markers; 2005)

DNATribes only used 8 and their results were not peer-reviewed. None of the mummies tested resemble South African profiles or hair type at all.
 

Bawon Samedi

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@isthisreallife


Wow posting quotes of opinions from other people not not peer-reviewed material. Classy. No duh DNAtribes was not peer-reviwed but it doesn't escape the fact that anyone could have plotted those STR results into a computer. That's all DNAtribes needed to do. And I don't get how more than 8 cores would have changed anything?

But more importantly I think this is what they are referencing:
"Thus the answer to the question “How often is a pair of individuals from one population genetically more dissimilar than two individuals chosen from two different populations?” depends on the number of polymorphisms used to define that dissimilarity and the populations being compared. The answer, can be read from Figure 2. Given 10 loci, three distinct populations, and the full spectrum of polymorphisms (Figure 2E), the answer is ≅ 0.3, or nearly one-third of the time. With 100 loci, the answer is ∼20% of the time and even using 1000 loci, ≅ 10%. However, if genetic similarity is measured over many thousands of loci, the answer becomes “never” when individuals are sampled from geographically separated populations."
http://www.genetics.org/content/176/1/351.full

The error rate the Witherspoon paper is talking about refers NOT to identifying individuals' ancestry but whether or not two individuals from one population will be found to be more dissimilar from each other than two individuals from two different populations. The Witherspoon quote says nothing about the utility of STRs in determining individuals' ancestry which is what DNATribes is trying to measure. Just more bytching to decredit the results. :rolleyes:

And lol @ using Zetaboards.
 

Raptor

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This year, Ugandans have witnessed the use of DNA tests to settle prominent public cases in the media concerning the paternity of children and of celebrities who have died. What has not been known to many people is the dispute concerning the ethnicity of the ancient Egyptians by scholars in the 20th Century. This dispute has been solved scientifically by the DNA tests conducted on the mummies of the ancient Egyptians in 2012 and 2013.

In December 2012, DNA tests were conducted on the mummies of Pharaoh Rameses III and his son, which proved that they belonged to human Y chromosome group E1b1a. This is the Y chromosome group of Sub Saharan Africans who speak Niger–Congo languages.

The disclosed Y chromosome group of the Pharaoh, at the time of releasing the report, was considered as just one of the details to make the investigation scientifically solid with facts. But its revelation caused a stir equal to the purpose of the original forensic investigation.
Another group of mummies from the Amarna period of Egyptian pharaohs were tested by DNA Tribes, an American Company which specialises in conducting DNA tests, in 2013.

The conclusion of the tests were that the mummies autosomal profiles would be most frequent in the present day populations of the African Great Lakes region and Southern Africa. Subsequent analysis of the autosomal profile of the mummy of Pharaoh Rameses III also concluded that this matched the genetic profiles of the population of the Great Lakes region as well.

It was reported in the DNA Tribe’s digest of February 2013, that the DNA match results of the ancient Egyptian Amarna royal mummies with the present day world regions reflect the population changes in Africa after the time of Rameses III .
One issue which remains unresolved is that of language. The language of ancient Egypt is classified as belonging to the Afro-Asiatic family of languages, which are spoken by people like the Somali and Amhara of Ethiopia, while the genetic profiles of the mummies match those of Niger–Congo language speakers. The most likely explanation is that some of the Niger-Congo speaking people, who were carriers of human Y chromosome E1b1a, moved into ancient Egypt along the Nile from the Sahara region as the region dried up and fused with the Afro-Asiatic speaking people, giving rise to the unique language of ancient Egypt.

However, these speakers of the Niger–Congo language went on to form the ruling class producing pharaohs for Egypt, while retaining the customs which they practiced in common with their relatives who had migrated south into the Great Lakes region as the genetic tests have shown.

THE CONNECTIONS

The strong cultural connection between the ancient Egyptians and the modern people of the Great Lakes region of Africa have long been noted for more than a century now by ethnographers (people who study ethnicity). The following examples illustrate this connection.

Female heirs. The Egyptian pharaohs, like the rulers of the Great Lakes kingdoms of East Africa, ascended to their thrones with their sisters or cousins as co-rulers. In Bunyoro and Tooro kingdoms, the sister was called the Rubuga, but is currently called the Batebe. In Buganda kingdom, she was called the Lubuga, now called Nalinya. In Buganda, this custom from antiquity of having female co-heirs is still practiced in all cultural succession events.
Royal drums. Secondly, in all the Great Lakes kingdoms, ceremonies were carried out at certain intervals to welcome the appearance of the new moon. Regalia such as the royal drums and twin objects were brought out on these occasions to pray for the wellbeing of the kingdoms as was done in the courts of the ancient Egyptian pharaohs.

Bows and arrows. Another custom of the pharaohs in common with the kings of Great Lakes kingdoms were the use of bows and arrows in the coronation ceremonies. The coronation rituals of the pharaohs were repeated in the Sed festivals of the pharaohs, a record of which has been kept by historians. A description of the bow and arrow part of the coronation section reads: “Next, the pharaoh was carried to the chapels of the gods Horus and Seth, where he was handed a bow and arrows with which he shot an arrow in each of the four directions” i.e. East, West, North and South.

In Bunyoro. An identical ceremony was enacted during the coronation of the Omukama of Bunyoro Kingdom. In his book: Abakama Ba Bunyoro Kitara, published in 1947, John William Nyakatura, a historian and a county chief of Bunyoro Kingdom, recorded the following ceremony for the new king: “Then the king was handed bows and arrows. He shot four arrows in all directions- one arrow was shot in the direction where the sun rises (Buganda and Busoga), the second one was shot in the direction where the sun sets, the third one in the southward direction (Nkore and Rwanda), the fourth one was shot in the northward direction (Bukedi and other countries). This action meant every rebel/rival who came from any of these directions would be killed with an arrow.

In Buganda. Buganda Kingdom in precolonial times also had a bow and arrow coronation ceremony as part and parcel of the enthronement rituals of the kings. In fact, the one of Buganda was deadly. A captive would be shot with an arrow by the new Kabaka to indicate that he would be vigorous in protecting his kingdom. The victim would then be killed by the king’s guards thereafter.
Musical instruments. The similarities between ancient Egypt and the Great Lakes also extended to the material culture. Scholars have noted the resemblance of the musical instrument in ancient Egypt and the kingdoms of the Great Lakes, notably the bow- harps and flutes. This fact is mentioned in the display of Ugandan bow harps at the Uganda Museum.

The plank sewn canoes on Lake Victoria used in precolonial times were bound together using vegetative materials and were assembled in a similar way to the boats used by the ancient Egyptians on the Nile. This similarity was noticed by the scholars when British rule was established in East Africa.
Civilization. In the 19th Century, explorers and anthropologists encountered the Great Lakes kingdoms and noted the unexpected sophistication of the societies in these kingdoms. It was assumed that Egyptian culture had influenced the culture of the Great Lakes region. In the actual fact, the direction of influence was the other way round. The anthropologists were observing a society similar to one out of which the ancient Egyptian civilization had emerged.

Again these just jat prove that ancient egyptian were multiracial .
 
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