say cuz, why was there a camera on a deserted street in the middle of no where, where tony starks...

[David_TheMan]

Zola said "when history didn't cooperate, history was changed" and it showed The Winter Soldier. Directly after that he said "accidents will happen" and it showed Tony's dad.

People put two and two together long before "Civil War" came out. This is a full year before "Civil War":



It's not a stretch at all, unless you think Captain America couldn't come to the same conclusion a random guy on Youtube did. Not to mention there was articles about it before "Civil War" came out.

Fred.

yeah showed TWS starks parents, a dead fury, and other shyt, again Shield knew about hydra assasins and etc. The real reveal of the scene wasn't WS it was how Hydra had infiltrated Shield to do what it originally wanted.

Capt. America is a film man, it isn't real life, comoparing a movie watcher with a person in a film who has to follow plot points and story arcs is pretty strange to say the least.

You forgot to add " and I suspect my best friend might have been the one to kill them". Even if he had been wrong, in the back of his mind Cap thought Bucky might have killed them and didn't want to dig deeper possibly be proven right.

If Tony found out his parents were murdered by hydra he would do everything he could to find the person that pulled the proverbial trigger.

Again There is no reason for Cap to even have suspected Bucky at that point.
He had all the time of rebuilding Sheild, getting back with hidden Fury, working with the new avengers team and he couldn't have told Iron Man, hey man we found some info on your parents. Doesn't fit logically to me.

• There are three ways he could have known already pointed out to you. Bucky could have told him off camera, Zola's insinuations in WS could have informed him, the Black Widow file could have said as much. Yes, it isn't spelled out anywhere in clear black and white.
• He meaning Cap knew or at least suspected it was indeed Bucky who laid down the murder gameon H. Stark.
• Cap SAID he knew when asked by Tony directly. Is he lying? I doubt it and he could have found out a number of ways (see first bullet point).

Already discussed Zola.
They presented no evidence to show Cap suspected Bucky involved at all in the Stark's deaths
Cap did say he knew, which again is the point I"m making, its a plot hole, how did he know Bucky was involved?

 

[AnonymityX1000]

yeah showed TWS starks parents, a dead fury, and other shyt, again Shield knew about hydra assasins and etc. The real reveal of the scene wasn't WS it was how Hydra had infiltrated Shield to do what it originally wanted.

Capt. America is a film man, it isn't real life, comoparing a movie watcher with a person in a film who has to follow plot points and story arcs is pretty strange to say the least.


Again There is no reason for Cap to even have suspected Bucky at that point.
He had all the time of rebuilding Sheild, getting back with hidden Fury, working with the new avengers team and he couldn't have told Iron Man, hey man we found some info on your parents. Doesn't fit logically to me.



Already discussed Zola.
They presented no evidence to show Cap suspected Bucky involved at all in the Stark's deaths
Cap did say he knew, which again is the point I"m making, its a plot hole, how did he know Bucky was involved?

There are three ways he could have known but none of them spell it out and spoonfeed it to the audience. If that's not good enough for you, fine call it a plothole.

 

[hex]

yeah showed TWS starks parents, a dead fury, and other shyt, again Shield knew about hydra assasins and etc. The real reveal of the scene wasn't WS it was how Hydra had infiltrated Shield to do what it originally wanted.

Capt. America is a film man, it isn't real life, comoparing a movie watcher with a person in a film who has to follow plot points and story arcs is pretty strange to say the least.

It's not strange at all. People came to the exact same conclusion you're arguing it's impossible for Cap to come to. shyt makes no sense whatsoever.

Now, if Black Widow or Fury or somebody else seen that footage, and Cap never did....and it was never shown that they talked to him about it....that's a reason to complain. But Cap in the film seen the exact same footage we did, and (presumably) came to the same conclusion. The shyt is not nearly as confusing as you're making it out to be.

I honestly don't get movie fans. If things are spoon fed to you, people say movies are dumbed down. If they aren't explicitly spelled out, it's a plot hole.

Fred.

 

[David_TheMan]

There are three ways he could have known but none of them spell it out and spoonfeed it to the audience. If that's not good enough for you, fine call it a plothole.

You think by repeating your 3 theories that actually equates with building support for them, it doesn't for reasons I've spelled out.
As if building a coherent story is spelling out. SMH. A good story actually tells you what is going on.

If I wrote a story about a man and his friend fighting bad guys and dragons
We work up to the end where after finding and slaughtering draagons and being friends for years and going on advantures one friend says I don't think all dragons are bad.
Then they have more adventures and they finally face a big dragon and are looking like they might die and then the friend who said I don't think all dragons are bad turns into a dragon.
That would be a terribly told story, with a weak plot point and a plot hole with how a person could even turn into a dragon since it was never hinted at or established in story.

You seem like you would argue, oh they shouldn't have to hold your hand, see in this one he said he didn't think all dragons are bad, if you put the pieces together....

I don't roll that way, if you are telling a story and you don't provide visual evidence (talking about movies specifically) that a connection is made, knowledge is transfered, or evidence gathered and you just throw it out in the 3rd act to get to the climax, I'm going to say that is a plot hole or poor writing. Sorry

If you are upset discussing it fine, just don't reply to me, doesn't mean that much to me either way, its just a movie and I just watch and discuss them for entertainment.

 

[David_TheMan]

It's not strange at all. People came to the exact same conclusion you're arguing it's impossible for Cap to come to. shyt makes no sense whatsoever.

Now, if Black Widow or Fury or somebody else seen that footage, and Cap never did....and it was never shown that they talked to him about it....that's a reason to complain. But Cap in the film seen the exact same footage we did, and (presumably) came to the same conclusion. The shyt is not nearly as confusing as you're making it out to be.

I honestly don't get movie fans. If things are spoon fed to you, people say movies are dumbed down. If they aren't explicitly spelled out, it's a plot hole.

Fred.

People who watch movies see info that characters in a story aren't prone to seeing.. That is why if a reader can guess where a story is going, it isn't knock on a character or plot where the characters involved don't.

CW and TWS are movies, not documentaaries you know.

Cap didn't see any footage whatsoever that allowed him to make the connection to the point where he would sit on suspecting the Starks were not murdered and again and its only been addressed once, Starks losing the serum in the first place should have let Shield know it was an assasination from the jump.

Cap did see the film until Tony saw it at that point everyone knows Bucky killed the Starks.

Didn't say the movie was confusing at all, that might be some projection on your part, I said it was a plot hole inserted to start the climatic last battle.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

You think by repeating your 3 theories that actually equates with building support for them, it doesn't for reasons I've spelled out.
As if building a coherent story is spelling out. SMH. A good story actually tells you what is going on.

If I wrote a story about a man and his friend fighting bad guys and dragons
We work up to the end where after finding and slaughtering draagons and being friends for years and going on advantures one friend says I don't think all dragons are bad.
Then they have more adventures and they finally face a big dragon and are looking like they might die and then the friend who said I don't think all dragons are bad turns into a dragon.
That would be a terribly told story, with a weak plot point and a plot hole with how a person could even turn into a dragon since it was never hinted at or established in story.

You seem like you would argue, oh they shouldn't have to hold your hand, see in this one he said he didn't think all dragons are bad, if you put the pieces together....

I don't roll that way, if you are telling a story and you don't provide visual evidence (talking about movies specifically) that a connection is made, knowledge is transfered, or evidence gathered and you just throw it out in the 3rd act to get to the climax, I'm going to say that is a plot hole or poor writing. Sorry

If you are upset discussing it fine, just don't reply to me, doesn't mean that much to me either way, its just a movie and I just watch and discuss them for entertainment.

I said if you need it spelled out to you, you are within your right to say it is a plot hole. What's the problem?
Just because I and a few others don't agree with you we're wrong? But you the only one calling it a plot hole tho.

 

[David_TheMan]

I said if you need it spelled out to you, you are within your right to say it is a plot hole. What's the problem?
Just because I and a few others don't agree with you we're wrong? But you the only one calling it a plot hole tho.

Yeah I called it a plot hole and said why, whats the problem?

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Yeah I called it a plot hole and said why, whats the problem?

None, I just disagree.

 

[hex]

You think by repeating your 3 theories that actually equates with building support for them, it doesn't for reasons I've spelled out.
As if building a coherent story is spelling out. SMH. A good story actually tells you what is going on.

If I wrote a story about a man and his friend fighting bad guys and dragons
We work up to the end where after finding and slaughtering draagons and being friends for years and going on advantures one friend says I don't think all dragons are bad.
Then they have more adventures and they finally face a big dragon and are looking like they might die and then the friend who said I don't think all dragons are bad turns into a dragon.
That would be a terribly told story, with a weak plot point and a plot hole with how a person could even turn into a dragon since it was never hinted at or established in story.

You seem like you would argue, oh they shouldn't have to hold your hand, see in this one he said he didn't think all dragons are bad, if you put the pieces together....

I don't roll that way, if you are telling a story and you don't provide visual evidence (talking about movies specifically) that a connection is made, knowledge is transfered, or evidence gathered and you just throw it out in the 3rd act to get to the climax, I'm going to say that is a plot hole or poor writing. Sorry

If you are upset discussing it fine, just don't reply to me, doesn't mean that much to me either way, its just a movie and I just watch and discuss them for entertainment.

Going with your example, let's say in movie 1 the guy said not all dragons are bad. In movie 2, it was revealed he was a dragon.

If people were talking about "I bet that guy is a dragon" a full year before movie 2....then yeah, the problem is with you, not the movie.

People who watch movies see info that characters in a story aren't prone to seeing.. That is why if a reader can guess where a story is going, it isn't knock on a character or plot where the characters involved don't.

CW and TWS are movies, not documentaaries you know.

Cap didn't see any footage whatsoever that allowed him to make the connection to the point where he would sit on suspecting the Starks were not murdered and again and its only been addressed once, Starks losing the serum in the first place should have let Shield know it was an assasination from the jump.

Cap did see the film until Tony saw it at that point everyone knows Bucky killed the Starks.

Didn't say the movie was confusing at all, that might be some projection on your part, I said it was a plot hole inserted to start the climatic last battle.

It's obviously confusing to you if the internet at large had this figured out a full year before the movie, and here it is close to a year after the movie and you're still baffled by how Cap came to the same conclusion.

Cap didn't see footage....what? He seen the exact same Zola footage the fans did, in the same context. You could take that scene by itself and figure out it's heavily implied TWS killed them.

Actually, never mind all that. Why do you think people made the connection that Cap knew, but you never did? Just answer me that.

Fred.

 

[David_TheMan]

Going with your example, let's say in movie 1 the guy said not all dragons are bad. In movie 2, it was revealed he was a dragon.

If people were talking about "I bet that guy is a dragon" a full year before movie 2....then yeah, the problem is with you, not the movie.



It's obviously confusing to you if the internet at large had this figured out a full year before the movie, and here it is close to a year after the movie and you're still baffled by how Cap came to the same conclusion.

Cap didn't see footage....what? He seen the exact same Zola footage the fans did, in the same context. You could take that scene by itself and figure out it's heavily implied TWS killed them.

Actually, never mind all that. Why do you think people made the connection that Cap knew, but you never did? Just answer me that.

Fred.

If someone said I bet that guy is a dragon simply off the guy saying not all dragons were bad, fine, would't have anything to do with the element of him changing into a dragon being not supported by the story itself and just a deus ex machina.

It isn't confusing at all, its just a plot hole that I noticed. Seems to me you are confused.
Zola footage did not show Bucky killing the starks and only would have hinted to Cap that hydra was behind them killing these people, not that Bucky did all the killing himself.

Again you seem to be getting real life blurred with the logic presented in movie. that is where your confusion comes from.

None, I just disagree.

No problem with me.

 

[ciubaca]

lmao at these marvel stans rushing to explain these "complex plot points", like this was interstellar or something. Face it, vision could have put a stop to that airport fight... kill that ass hole in the start of the movie without any civilian casualties but he decided to make pancakes. Black widow should have died in that van explosion, wtf is she doing fighting super humans and aliens anyway? At least batman had a suit...
She is a spy she should stay behind the scenes like SamueL, but no, she's fighting aliens with her little colt 45 or whatever that is.
And how the fukk does black panther keep up with bikes and cars and shyt? Isn't he like a regular guy? except for that suit?

 

[hex]

Zola footage did not show Bucky killing the starks and only would have hinted to Cap that hydra was behind them killing these people, not that Bucky did all the killing himself.

Yet everyone came to the conclusion that TWS did it, but you. Why do you think that is? If it's such an obvious, glaring plot hole how was it so readily understood?

If it's not confusing to you, then how is this a problem for you, but no one else?

Fred.

 

[hex]

And how the fukk does black panther keep up with bikes and cars and shyt? Isn't he like a regular guy? except for that suit?

No. Not that the rest of your post didn't make some decent points but don't claim something is a plot hole and then not even know what you're talking about.

Fred.

 

[David_TheMan]

Yet everyone came to the conclusion that TWS did it, but you. Why do you think that is? If it's such an obvious, glaring plot hole how was it so readily understood?

If it's not confusing to you, then how is this a problem for you, but no one else?

Fred.

Who didn't understand the conclusion of the TWS?
Where the movie was going is easy to see, how it got there is where the plot holes and poor writing cam into play.
Very simple

 

[Bryan Danielson]

Bucky didn't even know he did it until he saw the tape, how would he talk about something he didn't remember?

Could've sworn there was a scene where he said (when asked by Stark "Do you even remember killing my parents?")

"I remember everything"


Either way.... it's over..... it's been debunked. Time to move on, this can never be criticized again because the mystery has been solved!


Guess cats gotta go back to "bu bu bu bu but them villains though."