Russia's Invasion of Ukraine (Official Thread)

[Micky Mikey]

The American left took a huge L this.

Even the Majority Report. SMH.

Everyone is so aggrieved by US imperialism that they have a hard time accepting that other world powers can operate the same way. And after the debacle in Iraq many people just don't see the US intel community as trustworthy.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

Everyone is so aggrieved by US imperialism that they have a hard time accepting that other world powers can operate the same way. And after the debacle in Iraq many people just do see the US intel community as trustworthy.

They salvaged their reputation with this whole Ukraine thing tho



Funny thing is... Russia NOT invading Ukraine would have had America taking the bigger L.

If our intelligence had been out there saying he was gonna do it and he never did it, then we would have looked even more untrustworthy and the American government's rep would have taken a huge hit.

 

[Outlaw]

nikkaz talkin bout being victims of Russian disinformation as if they ain’t intensely watching American coverage which is in itself propaganda from a US/West perspective. It’s pretty funny actually. Obviously right now opinions are firmly rooted in their corners but let’s at least bring those opinions together to make a common consensus. Many things can be true at once:

- Russia/Putin is threatening the stability of Europe on a level not seen since WWII.

- NATO overplayed its hand in the 90s with its expansionist endeavors which has brought about this response.

- Russia/Putin is still pissed at NATO for fanning the flames of the Maidan revolution in the mid 2010s which resulted in the overthrow of a corrupt govt in favor of Russia for a corrupt govt in favor of the West along with the Crimean annexation and this is the other shoe dropping.

- NATO cannot appear weak to their Baltic allies/Poland or backtrack from their 90s/00s expansion into Russia’s sphere of influence if NATO is to remain a viable institution moving forward.

To me, what could’ve/would’ve solved this is if Central/Eastern Europe had taken a similar stance as Sweden/Finland at the end of the Cold War by being out of NATO but maintain a balanced relationship between the two sides. The viability of that kinda policy is another question entirely since Central/Eastern Europe isn’t on the level of Sweden/Finland. I won’t even suggest that abolishing NATO would solve it because there’s no way America would’ve allowed for that. But at the very least you can say a neutral position like that of Sweden/Finland has been successful and less antagonistic than choosing to be dojas in NATO.

Also, as someone else brought up, the way in which the West carried things after the Cold War would make any nation of similar stature and history feel like NATO won’t even act in good faith. America enjoyed the hell outta that goofy drunk Yeltsin which can’t possibly be helping to convince those of Putin’s mindset that the West is a fair party to deal with. On the contrary, it proves that nothing is fair in war and geopolitics.

You act like America’s media is state run. CNN and Fox News aren’t getting marching orders from the DoD. Can you say the same thing about RT?

This autocrat apology is sickening. It’s almost to the level of Trumpism. I can see why both figureheads are in bed together

 

[th_412]

Interesting how all the bytchass MAGA disinformation grifters like Candace Owens and Jack Posobiec have spent the last 24 hours on social media trying to justify Putins actions

 

[barese]

It's one thing to try to take Donbass and Lougansk because those are provinces that are "Russian" in all but name and territory but we know he wants Kiev otherwise he would not have circled Ukraine in Belarus. Trying to swallow another country is madness to me.

I understand what you mean, but this seems a stretch.
This desire could be true for Kiev (although I doubt they would execute on this), but does not seem true for Lviv.

Donbass and Lougansk regions should have seeked autonomy with special status within Ukraine rather then go to war in 2014. It would have been better for everybody but Russia was financing the whole thing and placed key agents to seize power by proxy. Since then, it was basically impossible for this conflict to end another way than war.

"Seeking autonomy with special status" is a two way street, and difficult with a government that bans Russian language (i.e. that denies some existing rights).

Language policy in Ukraine - Wikipedia

A 2012 law, called the law "On the principles of the State language policy" gave the status of regional language to Russian and other minority languages. It allowed the use of minority languages in courts, schools and other government institutions in areas of Ukraine where the national minorities exceed 10% of the population.

Immediately after the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, on 23 February 2014, the Ukrainian Parliament voted to repeal the law. This decision was vetoed by the acting President Oleksandr Turchynov, who instead ordered drafting of a new law to "accommodate the interests of both eastern and western Ukraine and of all ethnic groups and minorities."[12][13] However, in October 2014 the Constitutional Court of Ukraine started reviewing the constitutionality of the law,[14] and on 28 February 2018 it ruled the law unconstitutional.[15]

In April 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted a new law, "On provision of the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language" [uk]. On 16 June 2019, the law entered into force.

So, the Ukrainian government in 2014 cancelled the right of Russian minority to its language.
It would be foolish to think such government would grant an autonomy with special status.

 

[newarkhiphop]

 

[Liu Kang]

On the one hand, you agree that Donetsk and Luhansk are full of Putin backed conspirators who are purposely acting for Russia to invade. But then on the other hand, you say "well maybe there's some Ukrainians there who want them to invade anyway"



...

My position is clear :
Ukraine has separatists regions that are pro-Russia on its eastern part. They have been rebelling since 2014 and Russia is using and financing that uprising to get a grip on Ukraine as Putin believes Ukraine should be part of Russia or under Russian influence to recreate some modern day Kievan Rus

Donetsk and Lugansk people are populated with people who directly (armed rebels) and indirectly (sympathizers) want to secede from Ukraine. Donetsk people rather be with Russia, Lugansk rather be with themselves. There are most likely people in those regions that rather stay in Ukraine and be Ukrainians but the majority is not.

Is nuance that hard to understand when it comes to Russia ?

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

Interesting how all the bytchass MAGA disinformation grifters like Candace Owens and Jack Posobiec have spent the last 24 hours on social media trying to justify Putins actions

You see it in this thread in real time.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

My position is clear :
Ukraine has separatists regions that are pro-Russia on its eastern part. They have been rebelling since 2014 and Russia is using and financing that uprising to get a grip on Ukraine as Putin believes Ukraine should be part of Russia or under Russian influence to recreate some modern day Kievan Rus

Donetsk and Lugansk people are populated with people who directly (armed rebels) and indirectly (sympathizers) want to secede from Ukraine. Donetsk people rather be with Russia, Lugansk rather be with themselves. There are most likely people in those regions that rather stay in Ukraine and be Ukrainians but the majority is not.

Is nuance that hard to understand when it comes to Russia ?

I'm saying that the government of Ukraine doesn't care what those regions want, rightfully so.

Texas and Florida are always talking about how they want to secede. The federal government doesn't care and if Texas were to try to secede and join back with Mexico, the US military would run that fade with all involved.

Just because Donetsk and Luhansk have russian sympathizers or have ppl that want to secede from Ukraine doesn't give them the right to do so. That's a civil internal issue that they need to resolve, and no other countries should get involved in that.

You could draw parallels with the US Civil War. We forbade other countries to get involved.

This issue is a Ukraine issue, and Russia using this as a pretext for invasion is not gonna work out well for them.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Everyone is so aggrieved by US imperialism that they have a hard time accepting that other world powers can operate the same way. And after the debacle in Iraq many people just do see the US intel community as trustworthy.

That’s a big issue in this too. America did a lot of damage to its reputation from the Gulf War to the present. It was different during the Cold War since you had another antagonistic superpower to justify the behavior. Now it’s different.

You act like America’s media is state run. CNN and Fox News aren’t getting marching orders from the DoD. Can you say the same thing about RT?

This autocrat apology is sickening. It’s almost to the level of Trumpism. I can see why both figureheads are in bed together

Lol, are we really playing this game? Corporate interests RUN this country, and likewise they benefit from supporting certain foreign policy. When we went to war with Iraq/Afghanistan the pushback was minuscule compared to the war drum beating from mainstream media. But it’s privately owned so who cares if people are killed over it? At least they weren’t state operated media outlets….

Why is nuance not allowed in this situation is what I’d like to know? At the very least, let’s honestly look at the causes instead of remaining in our red white and blue bubbles.

 

[Outlaw]

That’s a big issue in this too. America did a lot of damage to its reputation from the Gulf War to the present. It was different during the Cold War since you had another antagonistic superpower to justify the behavior. Now it’s different.



Lol, are we really playing this game? Corporate interests RUN this country, and likewise they benefit from supporting certain foreign policy. When we went to war with Iraq/Afghanistan the pushback was minuscule compared to the war drum beating from mainstream media. But it’s privately owned so who cares if people are killed over it? At least they weren’t state operated media outlets….

Why is nuance not allowed in this situation is what I’d like to know? At the very least, let’s honestly look at the causes instead of remaining in our red white and blue bubbles.

Corporate interest may run this country but Tucker Carlson isn’t going to go missing just because he bashes Biden on a nightly basis.

One side is waging a barbaric land expansionary war and the other side is pleading for diplomacy and peace. The sides are very cut and dry and aren’t really grey.

All I’m seeing is a bruised ego justification for this invasion.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

Corporate interest may run this country but Tucker Carlson isn’t going to go missing just because he bashes Biden on a nightly basis.

One side is waging a barbaric land expansionary war and the other side is pleading for diplomacy and peace. The sides are very cut and dry and aren’t really grey.

All I’m seeing is a bruised ego justification for this invasion.

Yep.

 

[wire28]

You act like America’s media is state run. CNN and Fox News aren’t getting marching orders from the DoD. Can you say the same thing about RT?

This autocrat apology is sickening. It’s almost to the level of Trumpism. I can see why both figureheads are in bed together

HL, 2022

 

[Liu Kang]

I understand what you mean, but this seems a stretch.
This desire could be true for Kiev (although I doubt they would execute on this), but does not seem true for Lviv.

I dont think they will go for Lviv also, way too far within Ukraine and if they try for it, let's be honest, this'll be WWIII. Poland wouldnt tolerate Russian weapons from its southeast on top of Belarus and Kaliningrad. Plus this would totally isolate the Baltic states.

But Kiev from Belarus looks within the realm of possibilities. Putin annexed Crimea to get that Sebastopol base and they may aim at pushing from the south too. Now succeeding with this pincer is a whole nother thing but I can see the attempt. Anyway, those are conjectures, I obviously dont have any intel from them

I think the most likely outcome is an annexation of Donetsk and Lougansk and possibly the whole Donbass. If Putin goes further, he'll truly be a mad man.

"Seeking autonomy with special status" is a two way street, and difficult with a government that bans Russian language (i.e. that denies some existing rights).

Language policy in Ukraine - Wikipedia





So, the Ukrainian government in 2014 cancelled the right of Russian minority to its language.
It would be foolish to think such government would grant an autonomy with special status.

I didnt know about the language issue.
I knew those russophone regions weren't favored and that's where the resentment came from (as well as the cultural proximity to Russia) but didnt know rhis specifically. This most likely fueled and deepened the west/east divide. Feels like Ukrainians leadership dropped the ball there smh.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Corporate interest may run this country but Tucker Carlson isn’t going to go missing just because he bashes Biden on a nightly basis.

One side is waging a barbaric land expansionary war and the other side is pleading for diplomacy and peace. The sides are very cut and dry and aren’t really grey.

All I’m seeing is a bruised ego justification for this invasion.

No, fair point. Still, that doesn’t mean certain consequences don’t come at all if certain lines are crossed. Sure, being blackballed isn’t the same as being viciously poisoned but America isn’t above the fukk shyt either.

I bet if we were watching RT during the Invasion of Libya they would’ve used similar language regarding NATO/US to what you’re saying now regarding Russia/Ukraine and Libya had no relevance compared to Russia/Ukraine. In fact, the instability caused by that invasion ended up burdening many NATO members in the aftermath. Even in the dubious cases of Iraq/Afghanistan at least there was tiny traces of justification. We’ve seen both sides of this coin, America acts unreasonable on the world stage and countries like Russia push back and Russia acts unreasonable and countries like the U.S. push back.

Likewise, all I’m seeing is a lot of people refusing to at least see the other side of the argument. Doesn’t mean Putin is right or justified but like @mastermind said it comes off as very naive and heavily reliant on an American view of the world. Clearly, this is an issue with a layered history going back hundreds of years and cannot be defined simply from a Cold War perspective.