Russia's Invasion of Ukraine (Official Thread)

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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The HL self appointed geopolitical gurus have let me down again :mjcry:

i don’t know if I can emotionally handle another misguided, unrealistic take based solely off of bitterness and YouTube grifts that turns out to be wrong again :mjcry:
So much for this all being US propoganda :mjlol:
And these dudes are mods. That’s what I’m saying. The most consistently wrong dudes keep being rewarded on here.
 

jj23

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We can disregard this but Putin is a product of how the West acted since 1991. He's definitely had this whole Kievan Rus paradigm before then but we could pinpoint the Kosovo war and NATO's involvement has a key source of his world view.

Yes, dude is acting like a mad man and he's 100% wrong in what he's doing and has done to Ukraine but he doesnt exist in a vaccum and his Munich speech in 2007 is a good way to try to "get" him.

But you're right, this not the thread to do it. I'll stop derailing and focus on the current crisis from now on.
Point taken. I get where you are coming from now.
 

ZoeGod

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Putin isn’t a mad man. Nor is he like Hitler. He is acting more like a 16th century Czar. He is a product of the Russian mindset. People in the west mostly the American foreign policy apparatus think every nation thinks the same. This is why we failed in the Mideast and other foreign policy issues. Different nations have different cultural mindsets that developed from past history.
The Russian mindset is a mindset forged from repeat invasions from the Mongols, Swedish, Germans, Polish, French etc. In short Russia is an empire that kept expanding to geographical barriers to prevent invasion. Now they committed horrific crimes along the way. The collapse of the Soviet Union saw territories that were part of the Russian empire for a 1,000 years gone almost overnight. Russia was at its most vulnerable state in its entire history. In short they lost a lot strategic depth in the process. And what makes it worse is that the US promised not to expand NATO in 1997 but broke it anyway. For the Russians they have a mindset of not trusting western powers and putting their national security on the line based on flimsy promises from the US that can get broken over and over again. So in short they see NATO expansion as a threat to Russia as it will mean hostile enemy forces close to Moscow.
The next question I see asked here is why is Putin acting now. Simply because Ukraine’s military is getting stronger. Ukraine is a large nation with a large population. Western modern equipment is flowing to Ukraine’s military. Their military has plans to modernize which if Russia waits to long will make any future war with Ukraine very costly. This was always in the cards. There is a reason they have the 3rd largest foreign currency reserves and inking multi billion dollar deals with China. They know sanctions is coming so they prepared for it. And made the calculus for right now.
Many in America don’t understand because we have a peaceful history and haven’t had to worry about invaders. Last war fought on this soil was the civil war but that was hundreds of years ago. Face millions of Americans dying to fight off foreign invaders multiple times in history. In short we live in a bubble that makes us have foreign policy failures.

What Putin is doing isn’t right but you have to look at the mindset of these countries and figure out why they think that way. We just use lazy terms like Putin is a madman. Xi of China is a power hungry autocrat. The Iranians are a menace to peace. We seem to think democracy is the best form of government and try to spread it without thinking of the consequences. Hell we don’t have democracy in our own country with one party actively trying to undermine future elections with voter suppression. We think elections solve everything for these countries I mentioned without looking at the mindset and history of these nations. Different countries are wired differently and Washington still hasn’t accepted nor understand this.
 

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barese

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We can disregard this but Putin is a product of how the West acted since 1991. He's definitely had this whole Kievan Rus paradigm before then but we could pinpoint the Kosovo war and NATO's involvement has a key source of his world view.

Yes, dude is acting like a mad man and he's 100% wrong in what he's doing and has done to Ukraine
I'm just not sure how can you conclude he's a madman after mentioning the Kosovo war.

If the west believes in autodetermination of people above the post-communism borders, then the same is valid for Donbass, where Russians will be seen as liberators.

Actions of Putin in Donbass seem a perfectly logical step for him.
I do not see much of the difference compared to Russian annexation of Crimea.
 

Outlaw

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Putin isn’t a mad man. Nor is he like Hitler. He is acting more like a 16th century Czar. He is a product of the Russian mindset. People in the west mostly the American foreign policy apparatus think every nation thinks the same. This is why we failed in the Mideast and other foreign policy issues. Different nations have different cultural mindsets that developed from past history.
The Russian mindset is a mindset forged from repeat invasions from the Mongols, Swedish, Germans, Polish, French etc. In short Russia is an empire that kept expanding to geographical barriers to prevent invasion. Now they committed horrific crimes along the way. The collapse of the Soviet Union saw territories that were part of the Russian empire for a 1,000 years gone almost overnight. Russia was at its most vulnerable state in its entire history. In short they lost a lot strategic depth in the process. And what makes it worse is that the US promised not to expand NATO in 1997 but broke it anyway. For the Russians they have a mindset of not trusting western powers and putting their national security on the line based on flimsy promises from the US that can get broken over and over again. So in short they see NATO expansion as a threat to Russia as it will mean hostile enemy forces close to Moscow.
The next question I see asked here is why is Putin acting now. Simply because Ukraine’s military is getting stronger. Ukraine is a large nation with a large population. Western modern equipment is flowing to Ukraine’s military. Their military has plans to modernize which if Russia waits to long will make any future war with Ukraine very costly. This was always in the cards. There is a reason they have the 3rd largest foreign currency reserves and inking multi billion dollar deals with China. They know sanctions is coming so they prepared for it. And made the calculus for right now.
Many in America don’t understand because we have a peaceful history and haven’t had to worry about invaders. Last war fought on this soil was the civil war but that was hundreds of years ago. Face millions of Americans dying to fight off foreign invaders multiple times in history. In short we live in a bubble that makes us have foreign policy failures.

What Putin is doing isn’t right but you have to look at the mindset of these countries and figure out why they think that way. We just use lazy terms like Putin is a madman. Xi of China is a power hungry autocrat. The Iranians are a menace to peace. We seem to think democracy is the best form of government and try to spread it without thinking of the consequences. Hell we don’t have democracy in our own country with one party actively trying to undermine future elections with voter suppression. We think elections solve everything for these countries I mentioned without looking at the mindset and history of these nations. Different countries are wired differently and Washington still hasn’t accepted nor understand this.
Nobody is going to invade Russia. Nuclear weapons is a bigger deterrent than any primitive mindset of having a land buffer zone.
 

wire28

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Putin isn’t a mad man. Nor is he like Hitler. He is acting more like a 16th century Czar. He is a product of the Russian mindset. People in the west mostly the American foreign policy apparatus think every nation thinks the same. This is why we failed in the Mideast and other foreign policy issues. Different nations have different cultural mindsets that developed from past history.
The Russian mindset is a mindset forged from repeat invasions from the Mongols, Swedish, Germans, Polish, French etc. In short Russia is an empire that kept expanding to geographical barriers to prevent invasion. Now they committed horrific crimes along the way. The collapse of the Soviet Union saw territories that were part of the Russian empire for a 1,000 years gone almost overnight. Russia was at its most vulnerable state in its entire history. In short they lost a lot strategic depth in the process. And what makes it worse is that the US promised not to expand NATO in 1997 but broke it anyway. For the Russians they have a mindset of not trusting western powers and putting their national security on the line based on flimsy promises from the US that can get broken over and over again. So in short they see NATO expansion as a threat to Russia as it will mean hostile enemy forces close to Moscow.
The next question I see asked here is why is Putin acting now. Simply because Ukraine’s military is getting stronger. Ukraine is a large nation with a large population. Western modern equipment is flowing to Ukraine’s military. Their military has plans to modernize which if Russia waits to long will make any future war with Ukraine very costly. This was always in the cards. There is a reason they have the 3rd largest foreign currency reserves and inking multi billion dollar deals with China. They know sanctions is coming so they prepared for it. And made the calculus for right now.
Many in America don’t understand because we have a peaceful history and haven’t had to worry about invaders. Last war fought on this soil was the civil war but that was hundreds of years ago. Face millions of Americans dying to fight off foreign invaders multiple times in history. In short we live in a bubble that makes us have foreign policy failures.

What Putin is doing isn’t right but you have to look at the mindset of these countries and figure out why they think that way. We just use lazy terms like Putin is a madman. Xi of China is a power hungry autocrat. The Iranians are a menace to peace. We seem to think democracy is the best form of government and try to spread it without thinking of the consequences. Hell we don’t have democracy in our own country with one party actively trying to undermine future elections with voter suppression. We think elections solve everything for these countries I mentioned without looking at the mindset and history of these nations. Different countries are wired differently and Washington still hasn’t accepted nor understand this.
A lot of key strokes when the bold is all you need :wow:
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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I'm just not sure how can you conclude he's a madman after mentioning the Kosovo war.

If the west believes in autodetermination of people above the post-communism borders, then the same is valid for Donbass, where Russians will be seen as liberators.

Actions of Putin in Donbass seem a perfectly logical step for him.
I do not see much of the difference compared to Russian annexation of Crimea.
Russians invented the eastern Ukrainian crisis with their little green men
 
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