Russia's Invasion of Ukraine (Official Thread)

[Orbital-Fetus]

part of me wants to Finland and Sweden to join NATO just to see what happens.

 

[newarkhiphop]

 

[The_Unchosen_One]

Of course, sure they were technically neutral, but the writing was on the wall that Ukraine wanted to become more integrated in the Western economic system and defensive pacts. They were going to have American oil companies set up shop to exploit the new gas reserves found in Crimea, which would put them in direct competition with Russia, plus they currently control the gas lines needed to send energy to Europe and was taxing Russia for it.

Putin’s goal was putting a stop to any Westernization of Ukraine. Codifying this is a different thing then just presuming neutrality. But it’s all bullshyt I guess, you’re dealing with Russia here.

So maybe calling Russia’s bluff is the thing to do? That’s fukkin dangerous, Putin’s painted himself in a corner.

And now you know why Russia wants Crimea as part of Russia in this deal so they get the gas they found... so Ukraine is supposed to just be a poor country that can't do anything for themselves...

If Ukraine were to get this gas set up, they could end Europes dependence on Russian gas

 

[Tony D'Amato]

You would accede to those demands and go back to the Rubble?

I suppose I am talking big because my people got enslaved, trampled on and got no reasonable restitution.

We see the effects of that to this day.

Justice is important. Russia needs to rebuild what they destroyed.

Hey, I don't live there. I was just asking if it was reasonable. Especially those territories where leadership seems cloudy anyways

 

[Tony D'Amato]

Probably posted, but powerful

 

[jj23]

Hey, I don't live there. I was just asking if it was reasonable. Especially those territories where leadership seems cloudy anyways

Maybe I should rephrase.

It is entirely Ukraine's right to consider these demands and determine if they are reasonable or not.

That being said, the Russian demands cannot happen in a vacuum. Restitution also needs to be negotiated. IMO, restitution precedes any Russian demand.

 

[Loose]

Hasn't Russia already took Crimea? Thats been gone.

Doesn't matter, you don't recognize such an invasion as legitimate as a nation if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[Reality]

Ask a country to surrender it's ability to join a military alliance formed to counter an invasion by you after you just invaded them brehs

Ask a country to cease military action as you continue military action brehs

Leave the countries cities in ruins and ask to formally carve out other regions brehs

Russia with the usual goofy ass negotiating terms. Gtfoh. If I'm Ukraine I'd rather see this through than throw Russia a lifeline at this point.

 

[Tony D'Amato]

Doesn't matter, you don't recognize such an invasion as legitimate as a nation if you want to be taken seriously.

The way they handled the Russian military, they will definitely be taken serious now

 

[Cuban Pete]

Aka Please give up, this isn't going how we thought it would.

Those are all non starters, they're doing it on purpose to have a reason to keep pummeling the ukrainians. Russia has weird logic, theyre still trying to kinda sorta save face internationally but not really

 

[Adeptus Astartes]

L for whom?

I can see Ukraine complying with this

Ukraine will need assurances and money to rebuild their infrastructure plus reparations for those killed and displaced by Russian military.

 

[MushroomX]

Somewhat off-topic, but linked to Russia's freakout.

Russia has beef with Liechtenstein and San Marino; the latter being a population of less than 40k.

 

[Hood Critic]

Do you take the deal and put a stop to the fighting or do you show Putin you'll fight against any aggression shown towards border states?

Outside of maybe #3 I don't know if I'd agree to any of these.

No, because a negotiation signifies that you have something to offer. There is no recognition of Ukraine's sovereignty in those demands. Just a lay down your weapons and we're going to annex multiple parts of your country. Russia isn't offering anything other than we'll clumsily stop attacking you.

If they want negotiations to be taken seriously, they have to come back to the table with something tangible other than we'll stop attacking.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Is this really unreasonable?

To be fair, we wouldn't allow Canada or even Cuba to just post up missile systems

It's completely unreasonable because it allows Russia to capture territory violently. Normalizing that is a bytch.

However, if they can work a LOT of assurances in from the Russians it could be the best current move for the Ukrainian people. But they're going to have to find a way to guarantee that Russia backs the fukk off and can't just start violating again a few years from now.

 

[Liu Kang]

Only point of the 4 listed that make sense is Donetsk and Luhansk recognition. Not necessary as a agreement but as a negociation starter.

Ukraine's war with them has been going on for 8 years, what's the point in keeping those breakaway regions. Too much blood has been shed and the point of no return is probably passed now. I think a special autonomy status would be a sweet spot to aim.