Rolling Stone: Biggie was on the verge of leaving Bad Boy before he was murdered, lawyers were in legal battle with Diddy for publishing

[Awesome Wells]

The reason I said I don't think Big goes to Roc is because he was already top of food chain, and they were just getting started. Big had Undeas, and Un was already working on Untertainment, so I'm pretty sure Sony or Atlantic were gonna back up the truck to get Big. Especially Sony. Realistically, what could Big gain by signing to Roc then? Dutch, Spade & Charli have said the saw Un was getting crazy checks then, and had carte blanc. I think Sony would've given Big so much control and money he would've signed with them.

B.I.G. didn't have anything to do with Undeas or Undertainment. Those were Un's companies. Un wanted B.I.G. to sign with him, but Dame and Jay had already spoken with B.I.G. about The Commission. So Un always talks about how him and Dame used to fight over who would sign B.I.G after he left Puff. Those companies were owned solely by Un.

Cease said B.I.G. wanted to go with Rocafella because he felt that he could trust Jay and Dame, and not end up with a parent company that would do what Arista was doing to him with Puff. He wasn't interested in dealing with any more majors. He wanted to have his own thing and set up with dudes who had more of the indie spirit going. That was Rocafella at the time. Before they ended up going over to Def Jam.

 

[spliz]

So early in the thread it was Big's mom hates Puff and always have. Now it's she needs to stfu and is full of shyt. Which is it

She did. But she ALSO needs to fall back cause when Cease tried to get justice for her and her son years ago. She got on the radio and berated HIM for it and said her and Diddy are good. shyt made me lose respect for her. It made me realize she could be bought. Now when it's cool to pile on him she jumping out the window? I don't respect that. Plus her own son has history of abusing women. It's best for her to fall back before her dead son gets dragged thru the mud as well.

 

[nieman]

I need to google the Cease thing.. thats wild

It's the same interview/phone call

 

[Mike the Executioner]

Which lines up with Mase bringing Cam to BIG instead of Poof.

Like Greg Tate said, when Poof Diddy transitioned to being a rap star it proved aggressive mediocrity won the war over art and talent. I used to feel like I was losing my mind watching a nikka who couldn't dance, write a rhyme, or spit a ghostwritten with an ounce of style or rhythm be taken seriously.

If you have any insight into the human condition and psychology, and you watch the PE 2000 and Come With Me videos, you know you're looking at a psychopath capable of any and all evil. Come With Me in particular is a window into a maniac's mind - only the most malignant of narcissists could have conceived of that song and video.

The video begins with him dreaming of a sex scene of himself. Then he proceeds to spew insipid off-beat toddler rants over a sample of Kashmir. He jumps into the sky and his body transforms into a flock of doves. Suddenly he's floating into Times Square in a white suit while caterwauling “I cryyyyy/tears of sorrow/I diiiiie” after which he begins conducting an orchestra and scream rapping “tell me lies/time flies/close your eyes” and “I wanna fight you/fukkin bite you/I can’t stand nobody like you” and "I'm here to stay/forever/and ever/and a day/that's never/COME WITH ME"

His was such a staggering and disproportionate blend of talentlessness and grandiosity. That's a man who has zero regard for the world, the people in it, or the culture they create and sustain. Just the most contemptible and insidious sort of parasite there is.

Your posts always read like a classical poet.

I don't know why, but I imagine you sitting at a desk somewhere in a dark room with a quill pen and a cup of Earl Grey, expressing your unadulterated disgust towards the world.

 

[nieman]

B.I.G. didn't have anything to do with Undeas or Undertainment. Those were Un's companies. Un wanted B.I.G. to sign with him, but Dame and Jay had already spoken with B.I.G. about The Commission. So Un always talks about how him and Dame used to fight over who would sign B.I.G after he left Puff. Those companies were owned solely by Un.

Cease said B.I.G. wanted to go with Rocafella because he felt that he could trust Jay and Dame, and not end up with a parent company that would do what Arista was doing to him with Puff. He wasn't interested in dealing with any more majors. He wanted to have his own thing and set up with dudes who had more of the indie spirit going. That was Rocafella at the time. Before they ended up going over to Def Jam.

The story went that Undeas was secretly Biggie's label...no matter what was on paper. A lot of that was prob Undeas/Big Beat and us thinking that meant Biggie, and the stories of Biggie getting ready to leave Puffy to start his own label. Until we found out Big Beat had nothing to do with Biggie. I don't like looking at recent interviews over the past, because things change based on status. Biggie went from wanting to start his own label, to signing with Roc. But of course, you always seem to know a little more insider info, so I'll defer to your expertise.

But you have to think, why would big take JM/Kim to Un, if the play was indie..And then Chuck? And the Commission was always looked at as Biggie's supergroup; not Big and Jay. Jay wasn't even on the radar as anything other than Biggie's homie. I just can't see it, unless it was going to be a completely new label. I know Dame and maybe Jay had this duo vision, since they've said it numerous times over the decades, but I can't see Biggie being on a label where his mates are Jay the co-owner, Christion and maybe Rell. It's like starting from scratch again, without the track record, to be under another artist/CEO. They don't even have the money at that point to buy out whatever was going to be Puff's asking price.

 

[Rasille]

These publications make sure to be measured in terms of how they cover their own peoples. But it’s no holds barred when it’s black people. Diddy did some fukk shyt (a lot) but seeing these white publications piling on looks funny to me.

 

[Dzali OG]

Word I got from people in the industry, Biggie was killed as a direct result of Pac being killed.

Both sides were making big guap from the manufactured beef between pac and big. There were people eating good from the feud (not just rap people) and they were getting ready to do even more.

But when pac got killed by Loc it was looked at as being a result of the bounty puff allegedly had for deathrow chains.

So the call was made that since the WC cash cow was dead, the EC cash cow had to go too. I hear puff was given a choice, either bring biggie out there to die, or they were going kill him.

And he made the choice that he rather it be biggie than him.

This is from guys who were in the deathrow circle.

 

[Still Benefited]

Where is this info biggie put a hit on pac?

The dudes who did it all was connected to puff, puff was paying South side crips to take chains from death row.

Early that day one of the death row guys got robbed at the mall for his chain, pac saw him and charged him

Later same dudes killed pac after hunting him down.

Big wasn’t the one sending those guys off, they were connected to puff, due to his father friend, zip

You gotta put two and two together. I believe that Chuck Phillips interview is the true story to an extent.

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Yes,the story that said Biggie put a hit on Pac and was in Vegas that fateful night. Even gave Keefe his own gun he wanted Pac killed with



Now obviously this sounds crazy,and i think folks have said Biggie wasnt in Vegas that night. But im pretty sure alot of the info in that Chuck Phillipe article came from Keefe D. I believe this to be the true account,BUT he changed some names to protect the innocent,or in this case guilty. Instead of saying Zip gave him the guns,I think he just said Biggie instead.


You say all the guys involved were connected to Puff. Well,Zip was actually connected to Faith. And Keefe D is even on record saying Faith was mostly the go between.

10:20 mark



First time i heard about someone calling and asking "was That Us?" To Zip after pac was shot, the person asking was Faith Evans. Maybe they both called and asked the same thing. But either way Faith is still calling,and why would she need to call to ask that on Puffs behalf? If Keefe D is also saying Puff had a direct line to Zip? Is it possible she called on Biggies behalf as the go between?


I personally believe Keefe D told the real story to Chuck Phillips but just protected Zip. But doing so made the whole story sound ridiculous. I think Puffy got added into the mix later because dead men cant pay debts. I believe they felt Puff should pay what Biggie owed. Are we really going to ignore Biggies recorded confession as well("Long Kiss Goodnight")? Are we going to ignore the right person probably got killed,if a retaliation hit was put out for Pacs murder? The streets knew the truth and handled it accordingly. This is the smoothest,most realistic of all the theories. You just wont like it if your a Biggie fan and want to be able to paint him as a victim to keep his legacy intact

 

[Awesome Wells]

The story went that Undeas was secretly Biggie's label...no matter what was on paper. A lot of that was prob Undeas/Big Beat and us thinking that meant Biggie, and the stories of Biggie getting ready to leave Puffy to start his own label. Until we found out Big Beat had nothing to do with Biggie. I don't like looking at recent interviews over the past, because things change based on status. Biggie went from wanting to start his own label, to signing with Roc. But of course, you always seem to know a little more insider info, so I'll defer to your expertise.

But you have to think, why would big take JM/Kim to Un, if the play was indie..And then Chuck? And the Commission was always looked at as Biggie's supergroup; not Big and Jay. Jay wasn't even on the radar as anything other than Biggie's homie. I just can't see it, unless it was going to be a completely new label. I know Dame and maybe Jay had this duo vision, since they've said it numerous times over the decades, but I can't see Biggie being on a label where his mates are Jay the co-owner, Christion and maybe Rell. It's like starting from scratch again, without the track record, to be under another artist/CEO. They don't even have the money at that point to buy out whatever was going to be Puff's asking price.

When B.I.G. took JM and Kim to Un, Un still didn't have his deal yet.

Un was just managing them at the time, under Undeas. Clark Kent was the one that came in and signed them because he was A&R at Atlantic. Clark is also the one that introduced Jay to B.I.G. So B.I.G. didn't want Puff anywhere near JM or Kim, on paper, but he had people in Brooklyn who were set up at labels. So both JM and Kim signed to an Indie who was under a major. But Big Beat was around since the 80's. That was originally a house label, until the 90's, when they started signing mad underground MC's and artists, like Mad Skillz, and Artifacts, etc. Biggie's plan with Roc was the same thing that Cam and Beans did with them. Where they had their own label under Rocafella. Which is why Dame said he was mad at Puff because he wasn't letting B.I.G. get out of his deal or have his publishing. Another reason why Life After Death was a double. He was trying to fulfill his contract and get outta there.

The Commission was only one part of the planned label though. B.I.G. wanted to discover a lot of new talent and bring them over too, according to what Un always says. He wanted to just finish his deal with Puff and be out, but he still didn't even own his publishing, so they were in court over all of that too.

 

[Michael's Black Son]

How the hell was BIG magically getting out of his deal when he probably was on the hook for at least 4 albums (but likely 6) and wasn’t in a position where he or anyone else could’ve bought him out of his deal.

It’s not like he was only attached to Puff. That man signed a deal with Clive and BMG. Bad Boy was a vanity label. He was signed to a power larger than him that wasn’t going to let him walk away even if they told his handler (Puff) to step aside.

 

[JustCKing]

Charli's always been known to tell stories that are mad off. That's nothing new.

But B.I.G., Jay, Dame and recently Cease have all said the same thing. So I'm going with them.

She was already rapping in Philly, but she was going by something else. B.I.G. gave her the name. And Undeas was NOT B.I.G.'s company. Un had that company before he was even messing with B.I.G. He started that with a dude named Los from Flatbush. I knew all of these dudes back then. That had nothing to do with Biggie. The only company B.I.G. was able to have at the time was Brooklyn Mint. Which was clothes and accessories. His deal with Puff didn't allow him to be in any other entertainment companies, which is why he was suing to get off of Bad Boy.

There is no way they already had that name before she met Big. She is in the "Get Money" video, which was months before that movie came out.

Nah, Undeas was Big and Un. Both of them founded that company together in 1993.

 

[PHamm]

Yea, I don't see how anyone can listen to that interview and think puff was scared or the lox came out looking good. "We was just at the concert together and y'all didn't say anything" was enough for me

Very similar to how daz came off against Eazy E on the radio

 

[Awesome Wells]

There is no way they already had that name before she met Big. She is in the "Get Money" video, which was months before that movie came out.

Nah, Undeas was Big and Un. Both of them founded that company together in 1993.

She was just Tiffany when the "Get Money" video was done. But B.I.G. said in Stress that he gave her that name because he had it already as an idea and thought it would be dope. Dame just repeated the story recently too. The name idea came from Biggie's talks with Jay in '96, which is when he was recording Life After Death and working on tracks with Hov.

As far as Undeas, Clark brought Un into Atlantic and gave him the deal. It was a boutique management and production company. He started the company with Los and Just, who is his brother. Not Biggie. This was '94, not '93. B.I.G. was already on paper with Bad Boy and Puff for two years, so he wasn't even allowed to start or be involved in any other companies for music or management. This is why Un was telling B.I.G that he would sign him later, and that if he sees any other talent out there, to bring them to him because Biggie told him he was getting jerked by Puff.

Daddy-O and Special Ed got involved and brought the rest of JM to Un and that's when they put the whole group together, which included Kim. Un went to Daddy-O and he's the one that produced all of JM's and Kim's early demos. He told B.I.G. about his idea to start Undeas and that's when he went and started the company with his brother and B.I.G. brought him Cease and Chico. Un always talks about how he started the company with his brother, and how he was hoping to sign B.I.G. to it later.

 

[PHamm]

Dame, Jay and Cease said the plan was for BIG to go over to Rocafella and then move to Atlanta and run an office from there. The Commission was supposed to be the first project they dropped on the label. They had the name Charli Baltimore before they even met the girl who would use the name. But the plan was to team up with Hov and start over with a new label situation and new artists once he was able to get off Bad Boy.

Jay said BIG was calling him everyday to speak about the plan and the move to ATL.

This story makes me so sad/mad. Big was gonna go on a legendary run. Would have inevitably worked with Dre and other west coast producers eventually

 

[RAX 010]

Puff got Big killed yes we knew this already...

Suge was bad but Puff was way worse in comparison