Reasons Why Outkast Will Never Be Seen As GOAT Contenders By Most Real Heads

[tuckgod]

Outkast is easily one of the greatest artists hip hop has seen.

This thread is silly and disrespectful on so many levels.

This is just a sample of the progression of their greatness, and this small collection of songs alone shyts on most groups entire catalogs.

(Big Boi was the coolest rapper ever back then)


(mortality and the whole concept of growing old has always been on Dre's mind)


(the moment I knew Dre was the best rapper on the planet..... for the haters)


(Next level, we still haven't caught on to this frequency, yet)


(Dre achieved his final form)

 

[H.S.]

you gonna really sit up here and act like outkast was a group that people sat around arguing about? STOP IT

This is kind of a good point. Around my way, Outkast was an act that everyone liked, but they weren't anyone's favorite. I've encountered way more diehard fans of Mobb Deep, Dipset, EPMD, etc.

 

[ILLMMORTAL]

For one! This hiatus of not putting out a full length album in years and not hearing any new music from OutKast the group will help make a strong case as to why they won't be considered as goat contenders! U have to do more than just reunite for a few concert dates,be seen and perform! Them boys been off the seen wayyyyy too long! We need and want the music! PERIOD!

 

[DANJ!]

I done seen it all now... Outkast's first album... an Arrested Development/PM Dawn inspired money grab...

Wacky... you don't believe that yo' gotdamn self. I see what you doin' tho'- play on, playa

 

[50CentStan]

Crazy that op actually has a point.

 

[SirBiatch]

You know what I find funny about this thread? @Wacky D telling y'all shyt that is blatantly obvious if you listen to enough hip hop. Hip hop, for all its complexities, is pretty straight forward if you think about shyt critically. That's the beauty of it.

We know who is pop/hybrid hip hop and actual hip hop. We know that casuals/non hip hop fans are the ones that are really into Outkast, Fugees, Kendrick Lamar, Drake, J Cole, etc because the hybrid shyt is easy for them to digest. It's not as aggressive and intricate as actual hip hop. Yes there are casuals and pretenders that listen to Mobb Deep, Nas, EPMD, etc but they're nowhere in number to the amount of casuals that flood the hybrid lane. Hybrid shyt is by far the most accessible and the sales charts show this repeatedly.

Organized Noize are on record saying that their whole vibe was rap mixed with RnB/live instruments. They're also on record saying that they hid their intentions so they wouldn't doom Outkast from the start. But the reality is that true hip hop listeners can tell. You know by the hardness of the groove and the overall song structure what a 100% hip hop record is versus some hybrid shyt.

But y'all will play dumb and hurl insults instead of discussing hip hop, a genre you claim to love

 

[Wacky D]

The Grammy was the icing on the cake.

Another point to show how silly your post was.

They got the Grammy for Album of the Year for an experimental album that came out AFTER their prime.

During their prime, they dropped 2 - 3 certified classic albums, was a big part of one of the most beloved movements in hip hop (Organized Noize), and influenced a countless number of artists.

What list of groups from '93 - '00 do you put over 'kast?

you act as if the experimental album isn't the reason that they got the grammy, and as if the Grammy committee knows what their prime was. lol. some of you dudes just don't get IT. I feel like I'm wasting my time.

outkast doesn't have any certified classics. I know youre gonna claim that I'm hating, but I say that about a lot of artists on here, when people get carried away. and for the record, SPCM is a classic in my book. but when you use the term "certified classic", youre going into a different realm.

organized noise wasn't no dam movement. and there were PLENTY of crews that were way more beloved than dungeon family, who weren't really all that popular in comparison to the crews that actually fit your description.

not sure what youre asking me at the bottom. youre responding to a comment that I made, saying that they weren't a top tier group in their prime. then you ask me something else.

 

[Wacky D]

This is kind of a good point. Around my way, Outkast was an act that everyone liked, but they weren't anyone's favorite. I've encountered way more diehard fans of Mobb Deep, Dipset, EPMD, etc.

THIS
THANK YOU.

the problem is, theres a bunch of people in here playing stupid, but they know what it is.
then of course, theres the ones that really don't know any better.

yea, outkast was a well-liked group that either you liked or you just didn't pay attention to. they fall into the liked category. but they were never LOVED. theres levels to this. they weren't even popular enough to have haters.

you cant just skip over the loved category and go str8 to goat debates. that's like winning a wildcard game and going str8 to the super bowl.

THERES CERTAIN CRITERIAS THAT NEED TO BE MET.

 

[tuckgod]

outkast doesn't have any certified classics.

We may as well stop wasting each other's time, breh.

 

[Way Of The Gun]

the love below is responsible for half of that 20 million. you do know that, right?

they were not #3 in '96. they werent even the top group IN THEIR LANE.

atliens isnt even a classic.

i never said that they sold out. i just said that most of their success isnt a product of hip-hop.

they didnt last longer than bone & wu. those groups basically fell apart, and even then theyve done more recent things of relevance than outkast.

nice touch at the end. real mature. im keeping track of all of this. so when i start chittin on niccas, i dont want to hear nobody try to make me seem like the bad guy on some "he didnt do anything to you" type chit.

I'm going to keep it civil and mature bruh just to say you are WRONG about ATLiens being a classic and you're on some bullshyt right now..

BUT...I'm going to say YOU MIGHT have a point in this thread....due to Dre3000's quirkiness experimental steez/outlook on the musical aspect of Hip Hop that could be possibly because Erykah putting that Badu on him..or maybe he's the type that get bored quick..or maybe Dre was really trying to push that "Outkast" philosophy that was explained in Big Rube's speech in "True Dat" from their first album.

Operatin' under the crooked American system too long
OutKast, pronounced outcast
Adjective meaning homeless, or unaccepted in society
But let's look deeper than that
Are you an OutKast?
If you understand and feel the basic principles and
Fundamental truths contained within this music, you probably are
If you think it's all about pimpin hoes and slammin cadillac doors
You probably a cracker, or a nikka that think he a cracker
Or maybe just don't understand
An OutKast is someone who is not considered to be part of the normal world
He's looked at differently
He's not accepted because of his clothes, his hair
His occupation, his beliefs or his skin color
Now look at yourself, are you an OutKast? I know I am
As a matter of fact, fukk being anythang else
It's only so much time left in this crazy world
Wake up nikkaz and realize what's goin on around you
Poisonin' of the food and water
Tamperin' of cigarettes
Disease engineering control over your life
Take back your existence or die like a punk
This is Big Rube, sayin' right on to the real, and death to the fakers

Maybe I'm wrong but his style of dress and outlook didn't stop him from dropping powerful verses. Big Boi was a little more grounded and also had potent verses as well, whereas Dre was the one "out there" with his being one of the original martians of Hip Hop...with Kool Keith of Ultramagnetic MCs who was first even before Wayne and Future adopted the "martian" persona. Both of them carried this "Outkast" theme throughout their entire careers though.

In all honesty, the way Dre came off on that persona turned some people off to Outkast.

 

[JustCKing]

You know what I find funny about this thread? @Wacky D telling y'all shyt that is blatantly obvious if you listen to enough hip hop. Hip hop, for all its complexities, is pretty straight forward if you think about shyt critically. That's the beauty of it.

We know who is pop/hybrid hip hop and actual hip hop. We know that casuals/non hip hop fans are the ones that are really into Outkast, Fugees, Kendrick Lamar, Drake, J Cole, etc because the hybrid shyt is easy for them to digest. It's not as aggressive and intricate as actual hip hop. Yes there are casuals and pretenders that listen to Mobb Deep, Nas, EPMD, etc but they're nowhere in number to the amount of casuals that flood the hybrid lane. Hybrid shyt is by far the most accessible and the sales charts show this repeatedly.

Organized Noize are on record saying that their whole vibe was rap mixed with RnB/live instruments. They're also on record saying that they hid their intentions so they wouldn't doom Outkast from the start. But the reality is that true hip hop listeners can tell. You know by the hardness of the groove and the overall song structure what a 100% hip hop record is versus some hybrid shyt.

But y'all will play dumb and hurl insults instead of discussing hip hop, a genre you claim to love

Huge fallacy in this part of the post. You might have a point with Mobb Deep, but not with Nas. Nas came out of the gate with Illmatic. That album was initially slept on even with the media hailing it as a classic. Nas blew up with It Was Written, purists dismissed it as a commercial, Pop sellout album. So really, who were the fans that bought the album and pretty much made Nas the star he became because It Was Written and the albums that followed sold significantly more than Illmatic. As time went on, Illmatic became the de facto Nas album and the go to album that people used as a credibility card as a Hip Hop head even though Illmatic nor pre-Illmatic Nas was their introduction to him. While Nas is my favorite rapper, he along with Jay and any other highly successful Hip Hop artist is the result of being a hybrid vs. actual Hip Hop according to you.

In terms of Organized Noize: that's another part of the fallacy. If we dismiss their blend of R&B/live instruments to create their sound, then what are we really listening to. There are Hip Hop producers more respected than Organized Noize who blend other genres of music to create their sound. DJ Premier's sound is a hybrid of Jazz and Hip Hop, so much so that it is the reason why Christina Aguilera tapped him to produce songs for her. And you can tell by the groove of Premier's records that it's a hybrid of both Jazz and Hip Hop.

And in regard to Organized Noize's sound, these records definitely don't have a R&B groove to them: "Hootie Hoo", "Myintroletuknow", "Git Up, Git Out" (check the bassline), "Deep", "Call Of Da Wild", "Ain't No Thang". You're also ignoring that Organized Noize isn't even responsible for the vast majority of Kast's production. They did all of Southernplayalistic, 9 songs on ATLiens, four songs on Aquemini, three songs on Stankonia, no songs on Speakerboxxx/Love Below, and four songs on Idlewild. OutKast's biggest songs were self-produced or co-produced by them and Mr. DJ.

When OutKast debuted, their sound leaned toward G-Funk (specifically the singles "Player's Ball" and "Southernplayalisticcadillacmuzik"), the same sound pioneered by EPMD and popularized by Dr. Dre.

 

[JustCKing]

The whole notion that Kast benefited from the La Face machine is ignorant. First, you have to understand what the La Face machine is before you could even make such a claim. Babyface and L.A. Reid were a writing and production duo before they started that label. They wrote and produced for R&B and Pop artists. When they started La Face, their fingerprints were all over the albums. They essentially wrote and produced slow jams and ballads. Their writing nor their production never touched Kast albums. They were however, largely hands on with Toni Braxton and TLC. Monica and Usher even had songs written and produced by them. Kast never did. Sonically, Kast's sound was the antithesis of the "La Face sound". What Organized Noize was doing with OutKast and Dungeon Family in general was new territory for them.

La Face dominated the R&B charts with most of their acts. Kast never had much success on that chart until "Ms. Jackson" (peaked at #1) dropped. Before "Ms. Jackson", only "Elevators" and "Player's Ball" made a significant impact, peaking at #5 and #12 respectively. On the Rap charts, "Elevators" and "Player's Ball" peaked at #1. "Southernplayalistic" and "ATLiens" peaked at #9 and #8 respectively. "Jazzy Belle" peaked at #7.

 

[rubberbandmane]

hey na pop tarts

 

[SirBiatch]

Huge fallacy in this part of the post. You might have a point with Mobb Deep, but not with Nas. Nas came out of the gate with Illmatic. That album was initially slept on even with the media hailing it as a classic. Nas blew up with It Was Written, purists dismissed it as a commercial, Pop sellout album. So really, who were the fans that bought the album and pretty much made Nas the star he became because It Was Written and the albums that followed sold significantly more than Illmatic. As time went on, Illmatic became the de facto Nas album and the go to album that people used as a credibility card as a Hip Hop head even though Illmatic nor pre-Illmatic Nas was their introduction to him. While Nas is my favorite rapper, he along with Jay and any other highly successful Hip Hop artist is the result of being a hybrid vs. actual Hip Hop according to you.

Nas was a hip hop star prior to Illmatic and especially the moment Illmatic came out. The fukk are you talking about?

IWW was cross-over music. Purists were right.

In terms of Organized Noize: that's another part of the fallacy. If we dismiss their blend of R&B/live instruments to create their sound, then what are we really listening to. There are Hip Hop producers more respected than Organized Noize who blend other genres of music to create their sound. DJ Premier's sound is a hybrid of Jazz and Hip Hop, so much so that it is the reason why Christina Aguilera tapped him to produce songs for her. And you can tell by the groove of Premier's records that it's a hybrid of both Jazz and Hip Hop.

You're reaching super hard with this one. Premo's shyt is 100% hip hop. I probably told you this before but you were acting obtuse and still will be obtuse - but there is a huge difference between taking something outside of hip hop and making it 100% hip hop with hard ass hip hop drums (e.g. the sample for the Mass Appeal melody) and making jazz fusion hip hop records.

 

[JustCKing]

Nas was a hip hop star prior to Illmatic and especially the moment Illmatic came out. The fukk are you talking about?

IWW was cross-over music. Purists were right.

Nas was no Hip Hop star prior to Illmatic. Having a buzz =/= being a star.

Purists being right is neither here or there. The point is, Nas gained a lot of fans from that crossover audience and that includes people that became fans of Illmatic and his features before Illmatic. His success is the product of what you're describing as "hybrid".

You're reaching super hard with this one. Premo's shyt is 100% hip hop. I probably told you this before but you were acting obtuse and still will be obtuse - but there is a huge difference between taking something outside of hip hop and making it 100% hip hop with hard ass hip hop drums (e.g. the sample for the Mass Appeal melody) and making jazz fusion hip hop records.

"All I was trying to do was be different," says Premier. "I did not want us to sound like all the other producers. Everybody was into James Brown at the time, including myself. But again I wanted to have an outlook where everybody would look upon me as original. You had to be a leader, and I thought 'Nobody is tapping into the jazz stuff, so I can go into that world and see if I can put beats together with that type of music.'"

DJ Premier |

^^^ His own words. How is him saying "so I can go into that world (in reference to the jazz stuff) and see if I can put beats together with that type of music" not a hybrid? Tell me if this isn't a Hip Hop/Jazz fusion:

If you're taking something outside of Hip Hop, throwing some hard Hip Hop drums on it doesn't make it 100% Hip Hop at least not according to Coli posters. Because you're claiming these are hybrids:




but, on the same note, want to claim these as 100% Hip Hop:




I'm arguing that BOTH are Hip Hop.