Reasons Why Outkast Will Never Be Seen As GOAT Contenders By Most Real Heads
- Thread starter Wacky D
- Start date
Dope post. Some parts I disagree but overall on point. If this was the first post then I think a lot of misunderstanding wouldn't have occurred in this thread.
No Limit and CMR were wildly popular. Nobody's denying that. What I'm arguing is that their standing in Southern Hip Hop is being exaggerated. You're comparing a duo (OutKast) and at most a collective to a record companies. We're not just talking any record label here, we're talking labels who were pumping out music at a much faster rate than Kast or Dungeon Family. My argument is that such a comparison shows how impactful Kast and Dungeon Family were. We're talking about a handful of Dungeon Family albums vs. 20-40 No Limit releases and about 10 CMR releases in a much shorter span of time. How many of those No Limit and CMR were as big as Southernplayalistic, ATLiens, Aquemini, Soul Food, or Still Standing. I'm not talking about albums that were poppin', I'm talking albums that are at the very least hailed as Southern classics.
The fact that you're acknowledging that Dungeon Family had their own lane is what I'm getting at. The music that they were doing was much different than what their peers were doing. The sound was still Southern, but more atmospheric with live instruments.
If we're talking about The South, UGK and Eightball & MJG are very relevant because we're talking about a region in which they were very popular.
No Limit did not the break The South. The South was viable before No Limit, which is one of the reasons why No Limit was viable. The other reason No Limit was viable is because they were filling a void left open by Biggie and Pac. Then there was Snoop Dogg who helped solidify their standing in the West. A lot of Pac stans latched on to No Limit because of the tributes, homages, and even blatant biting (which No Limit caught a lot of flack for). You can't say No Limit broke artists in the South and then say Dungeon Family didn't is laughable. Both camps were essentially putting on artists from their respective cities.
A Mt. Rushmore for the South would include the figures you mentioned in terms of importance regarding the business aspect. Musically, some of them wouldn't be on it.
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no UGK, 8ball & MJG are absolutely NOT relevant to this discussion. this whole side-argument is about breaking the south thru nationally. those guys were regional legends. come on man. be smart.
smh @ the bolded. youre not comprehending. i wasnt talking about no limit just breaking artists in the south or in their crew. im talking about UN-RELATED artists & labels getting deals & drawing actual interest off the back of what no limit was doing. thats what opening the floodgates and making a region viable is all about. they drew the interest of the public to wanting more south music and the labels wanted their piece of the pie. the dungeon family didnt do any of that. hell, the majority of DF fans outside of the south dont even like southern rap, so who in the hell were they putting on for besides their own? again, this goes back to what i was saying about you being an A&B thinker. you have to think critically breh.
no limit & cash money's standing isnt being exxaggerated. youre just not aware of their standing because youre too caught up in internet speak, which is why you think they were fads.
i dont know what youre comparing. you can compare the entire dungeon family to them, and its the same result. master p alone was a bigger draw than the dungeon family. just so that theres no confusion here.
lol @ washed-up snoop dogg solidifying no limit on the west coast. no limit started their breakthrough ON THE WEST. cmon man. youre just desperately pulling chit out ya ass and running with it. that chit aint wavey cannon.
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UGK were regional, but Eightball & MJG weren't. They even had solo albums that popped off.
Again, you're comparing a label to a crew. Dungeon Family wasn't a label. I already acknowledged what No Limit's business model did for Hip Hop which is completely irrelevant when the entity you're comparing them too wasn't ran as a label. Dungeon Family was a crew and the members had deals with different labels.
No Limit didn't open the floodgates. They didn't make The South a viable market. What happened was artists looked at what No Limit was able to do as an independent and started brokering their own label deals. It wasn't because No Limit turned the whole world on it's ears (and I'm not saying that they No Limit didn't have massive appeal), it's because the unique business model that P had in place. He, like, many artists in the South at the time went from slanging tapes out of his trunk to slanging them to Mom & Pops. Then he got the distribution deal with Priority, which gave him 75%-80% of the profit. That was pretty much unheard of and it allowed other artists to then broker their own deals based off of that. It wasn't because people were like, "well The South is a viable market", because they'd already seen successful Southern artists and labels in The South before. Artists were getting deals.
I'm not caught up in Internet speak. As a listener, I saw how both camps rose to prominence and how fans of No Limit became CMR fans. I was also aware of the criticisms of No Limit and CMR.
I didn't say Snoop Dogg broke No Limit through on the West, I said he helped solidify them on the West. That's undeniable. Even a washed up Snoop was still more important than anybody on No Limit. When he joined No Limit, it was a big deal and possibly the label's biggest acquisition.
8ball & MJG were regional breh. they never popped like that.
and if you know UGK was regional, then why did you keep trying to bring them up?
do you even read my posts? i just said str8 up that master p alone was bigger than the dungeon family.
i stopped reading after that, seeing that you clearly didnt show me enough respect to read my post. its one thing for you to sit here and talk out ya ass, but dam, you aint even read my post after i read all your bullchit? i feel some type a way.
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i couldnt help but to skim thru this while scrolling down.
there were labels like no limit long before them. they just didnt pop like no limit. neither did 98% of the labels that came after them
the rest of this is you trying to find an angle to push in hopes of downplaying their run.
you spent all this time downplaying no limit & cash money because you cant back up the stuff youre trying to give outkast credit for. im still waiting to find out how they so-called put the south on the map.
mystikal was the label's biggest free agent acquisition. not no dam snoop dogg.
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but again, i respect @JustCKing.
at least he fights the good fight, unlike dudes like @mrken12 whose in the background neggin people.
what a fakkit. hes been trolling after i called him out for being a cooon in TSC yall.
at least he fights the good fight, unlike dudes like @mrken12 whose in the background neggin people.
what a fakkit. hes been trolling after i called him out for being a cooon in TSC yall.
8Ball & MJG were not a regional group. This was established pages ago. They were consistent sellers (solo and group) and had joints that got play outside of The South as well as features. On Top of the World, which dropped in '95 was their breakthrough on a mainstream level.
Only reason I'm even bringing UGK up is because they are pioneers who helped put The South on the map. You really can't discuss Southern Hip Hop without mentioning them.
You saying 98% of the labels didn't pop after No Limit pretty much negates your argument about No Limit opening the floodgates. The proverbial floodgates were not opened in the South until the early '00's with the explosion of Screwed, Crunk, and Trap. Labels were signing artists from The South left and right regardless if they were garbage one hit wonders are were talented lyricists primed for longevity.
I'm not downplaying No Limit. If we're talking about being ground breaking and influential in regard to music in terms of art and not commerce, then Dungeon Family wins. If we're talking about commerce and business, then yes, credit goes to No Limit. When I say Dungeon Family showed a different aspect of The South, I'm saying they showed that you can't put all Southern artists into a box. They introduced people to the Southern experience from the everyday joe perspective. They gave you the street aspect, the political aspect, and the common man aspect years before No Limit had an impact.
at Mystikal being No Limit's biggest free agent acquisition. For starters, Mystikal wasn't a free agent. He was still signed to Jive the entire time he was with No Limit despite him dissing Jive all over both his No Limit albums and on his features. There's a Jive logo on the back of all of Mystikal's albums except the original pressing of his self titled debut which later became Mind of Mystikal. Even Mystikal's No Limit albums had ads for albums from Jive's artists. Secondly, he was nowhere near as big as Snoop. As much of a decline in quality as Snoop's music took from Doggystyle to Doggfather, Snoop Dogg was still huge. He was bigger than anyone on No Limit (Master P included).8Ball & MJG were not a regional group. This was established pages ago. They were consistent sellers (solo and group) and had joints that got play outside of The South as well as features. On Top of the World, which dropped in '95 was their breakthrough on a mainstream level.
Only reason I'm even bringing UGK up is because they are pioneers who helped put The South on the map. You really can't discuss Southern Hip Hop without mentioning them.
You saying 98% of the labels didn't pop after No Limit pretty much negates your argument about No Limit opening the floodgates. The proverbial floodgates were not opened in the South until the early '00's with the explosion of Screwed, Crunk, and Trap. Labels were signing artists from The South left and right regardless if they were garbage one hit wonders are were talented lyricists primed for longevity.
I'm not downplaying No Limit. If we're talking about being ground breaking and influential in regard to music in terms of art and not commerce, then Dungeon Family wins. If we're talking about commerce and business, then yes, credit goes to No Limit. When I say Dungeon Family showed a different aspect of The South, I'm saying they showed that you can't put all Southern artists into a box. They introduced people to the Southern experience from the everyday joe perspective. They gave you the street aspect, the political aspect, and the common man aspect years before No Limit had an impact.
we already corrected you about 8ball & mjg pages ago. im not going is circles.
UGK arent pioneers of anything. you said it yourself that they were regional, so how can you turn around and say they put the south on the map? THIS MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. and it just reminds me that you dont understand what it means to put something on the map.
which renders this entire side-argument pointless since you dont understand the basics of it.
lol @ the floodgates being opened thru screwed, crunk & trap. im convinced that you werent around in the '90s.
mystikal was still stuck on jive but he was out of the big boy deal and got on no limit.
mystikal was way more popular than snoop dogg in the late '90s. sure, snoop dogg carried a household name, but the same could be said in 2016. does that mean that hes currently the biggest rapper in the game? your get wires crossed too easily breh.
Who is the "we" that corrected me?
UGK pioneered most everything that rappers like No Limit were doing musically.
for lacking knowledge on Southern Hip Hop. Before No Limit, Ridin' Dirty was going Gold without radio and video play. That set the precedent for what No Limit would do with C-Murder, Kane & Abel, and other artists on the roster who were successful without having videos or singles in rotation.The floodgates in The South were opened in the 2000's. That's when the South became dominant. It was everywhere to the point you now have artists from everywhere rapping over Southern beats and biting Southern artists. It's when you had artists from all over The South amassing success. You had artists from Tennessee (Memphis), Texas (Houston), Georgia (Atlanta), and Mississippi all making noise on a much larger scale than in the 90's. Southern rappers were THE biggest artists in the game (from Wayne to Luda to T.I. to Jeezy to Rick Ross). You're 100% clueless on Southern Hip Hop and you're trying to speak on it as an outsider who isn't even privy to what was really going on down here.
Big Boy Records was an imprint. It wasn't Mystikal's parent label.
Mystikal was more popular than Snoop in the 90's? Then you're going to claim I wasn't around in the 90's.
because this is just laughable on every level. Snoop today is a far cry from being as popular as he was in the late '90's. Late 90's Snoop was far more popular than late 90's Mystikal. Snoop was still one of the biggest rappers on the planet in the late 90's.
...and some waffle fries
Superstar
Who is the "we" that corrected me?
UGK pioneered most everything that rappers like No Limit were doing musically.
The floodgates in The South were opened in the 2000's. That's when the South became dominant. It was everywhere to the point you now have artists from everywhere rapping over Southern beats and biting Southern artists. It's when you had artists from all over The South amassing success. You had artists from Tennessee (Memphis), Texas (Houston), Georgia (Atlanta), and Mississippi all making noise on a much larger scale than in the 90's. Southern rappers were THE biggest artists in the game (from Wayne to Luda to T.I. to Jeezy to Rick Ross). You're 100% clueless on Southern Hip Hop and you're trying to speak on it as an outsider who isn't even privy to what was really going on down here.
Big Boy Records was an imprint. It wasn't Mystikal's parent label.
Mystikal was more popular than Snoop in the 90's? Then you're going to claim I wasn't around in the 90's.
Im convinced you not from the South or was off the porch in the 90s. You fabricating so much stuff its just laughable. You looking real clownish
Who is the "we" that corrected me?
UGK pioneered most everything that rappers like No Limit were doing musically.
The floodgates in The South were opened in the 2000's. That's when the South became dominant. It was everywhere to the point you now have artists from everywhere rapping over Southern beats and biting Southern artists. It's when you had artists from all over The South amassing success. You had artists from Tennessee (Memphis), Texas (Houston), Georgia (Atlanta), and Mississippi all making noise on a much larger scale than in the 90's. Southern rappers were THE biggest artists in the game (from Wayne to Luda to T.I. to Jeezy to Rick Ross). You're 100% clueless on Southern Hip Hop and you're trying to speak on it as an outsider who isn't even privy to what was really going on down here.
Big Boy Records was an imprint. It wasn't Mystikal's parent label.
Mystikal was more popular than Snoop in the 90's? Then you're going to claim I wasn't around in the 90's.
the "we" is the other people you were arguing with.
you dudes and this fakkit chit yall be on, trying to pretend that im the only one saying this chit just cuz im the main one arguing. as if we cant just go back and see you getting sonned by other posters in here.
and look right on time, somebody else just came in and sonned you. right above. go head and address that.
UGK was influential. but they didnt pioneer the south. of course i know about the stuff they did with no limit and all that. but no limit had way more than just southern influence in their music. way more.
and master p was gold before UGK buddy.
lol @ you still trying to push this narrative that the floodgates were opened thru that crunk & snap bullchit. you sound like you just got finished watching one of those VH1 documentaries. you clearly werent around in the '90s.
late '90s mystikal was one of the most genuinely popular rappers of the era. snoop was already just a guy milking his glory days. youre basing your opinion off of his celebrity brand value. by that logic, snoop is the biggest rapper in 2016 too.
the "we" is the other people you were arguing with.
you dudes and this fakkit chit yall be on, trying to pretend that im the only one saying this chit just cuz im the main one arguing. as if we cant just go back and see you getting sonned by other posters in here.
and look right on time, somebody else just came in and sonned you. right above. go head and address that.
UGK was influential. but they didnt pioneer the south. of course i know about the stuff they did with no limit and all that. but no limit had way more than just southern influence in their music. way more.
and master p was gold before UGK buddy.
lol @ you still trying to push this narrative that the floodgates were opened thru that crunk & snap bullchit. you sound like you just got finished watching one of those VH1 documentaries. you clearly werent around in the '90s.
There was one other person who questioned what I said about UGK wanting to be regional.
Nobody sonned me (he still hasn't clarified the claim he was making) and if we're talking about sonned, look at how many arguments you are involved in in this thread where people are not only disagreeing with you but calling you out on the BS you're spewing.
UGK is one of the pioneers of Southern Hip Hop. Master was Gold WITH radio airplay. That's the difference and one of the biggest songs on said album features UGK.
The floodgates in The South were not opened until the early '00's to the point where you had Southern artists blowing up from everywhere.
bu bu but before it was "who is WE?"
ice cream man got airplay where? the same places as UGK?
and the UGK song wasnt no dam single.as for the bolded: you CLEARLY werent around back then and dont know what youre talking about. the south sold more records in '97-00 than they did in any other time period. and they were blowing up from everywhere after no limit put it down. and thats what opened the door for all that mid-00s(not early, its mid) chit that youre trying to push in here. thats probably when you got into rap.
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