Reasons Why Outkast Will Never Be Seen As GOAT Contenders By Most Real Heads

[JustCKing]

I also wanted to add something in regard to No Limit and CMR. Both labels had rather huge followings, but in comparison to OutKast, they didn't have the credibility or respect. I'm not saying that they weren't good, because No Limit actually had nice lyricists (more so than CMR even though each member of the Hot Boys had their moments). The thing is, CMR and No Limit were frowned upon for various reasons. They caught it harder than Kast did. Even now when people mention The South, people will straight up on every Southern artist, but will make exceptions for Scarface and OutKast. No Limit is actually blamed for killing Hip Hop (which I disagree with, but a lot of people hold that opinion). Same goes for CMR with bling, people cite that as a downfall for Hip Hop as well. Even still, the one thing you can't take away from No Limit or knock them for is the business model they set up. I wouldn't say they opened the floodgates for The South, but it helped pave the way for labels like CMR (their deal with Universal) and Hypnotize Minds in breaking through the mainstream.

That being said, YES, OutKast was ground breaking. Before them there was the Geto Boys, 2Live Crew, Eightball & MJG, UGK, and a plethora of bass artists. Kast opened ears up to different aspects of Southern music showing that you could be lyrical, but creative with it as well. They made people pay attention to The South who otherwise slept and just wrote Southern acts off as gimmicks. Even now, when Southern music is discussed, OutKast still belongs to a small circle of Southern artists won't get you laughed at if you mention them among greats.

 

[Wacky D]

I also wanted to add something in regard to No Limit and CMR. Both labels had rather huge followings, but in comparison to OutKast, they didn't have the credibility or respect.

the credibility or respect from whom? writers & internet purists?

the core rap audience f*cked with those cliques much harder than they f*cked with the dungeon family.

and lol @ giving outkast credit for bringing lyrics & creativity to the south as if they were the 1st to do any of that.

 

[JustCKing]

the credibility or respect from whom? writers & internet purists?

the core rap audience f*cked with those cliques much harder than they f*cked with the dungeon family.

and lol @ giving outkast credit for bringing lyrics & creativity to the south as if they were the 1st to do any of that.

It wasn't writers and critics who were Anti- No Limit/CMR, it was core rap audiences that were critical of No Limit. How many times have you seen people swear that 90% of the music No Limit made was wack and that they made it cool for wack rappers to get shine.They favored and still favor Dungeon Family over No Limit and CMR. I'm talking about people who place emphasis on lyrics and content over production. You're not being honest if you don't constantly see statements from Hip Hop fans that on nearly every Southern act, but hold Kast and Scarface in high regard and even say Kast and Scarface are the only Southern acts they ever respected like that. Later, Ludacris started getting the same kind of respect as an MC too. Some people even put Wayne and to a lesser extent, T.I. in that echelon of rappers too in regard to Southern rappers. Most every other Southern rapper is underrated in that regard.

I didn't say OutKast was the first to bring creativity and lyricism to the South. I'm saying that they opened up ears because when Kast came on the scene, The South was still marginalized. The South wasn't looked at in the same light as the East or the West.

 

[360dagod]

You're making up criteria.

UGK was regional and that's by choice. They weren't trying to be huge. The only validation they wanted was validation from The South. Pimp C even dissed BET.

Eightball & MJG and Suave House were bigger than just The South. Eightball had a Source cover. Their videos were on BET. They were doing features with artists outside of The South. Rakim had a Suave House remix on his album.

Master P even saw Suave House as equals.
at you talking about taking us backwards as a people in a discussion about a music group. Then to top it off, you still don't know what regional means.

Then why did they sign to a major with a standard record deal when there were indies throughout the south during that time?

I think they wanted to keep their regional sound...But to say they wanted to be regional is something I would find hard to believe..

Suave House had distribution thru universal and realitivity during their times..So they had access to covers like the Source...

 

[Wacky D]

It wasn't writers and critics who were Anti- No Limit/CMR, it was core rap audiences that were critical of No Limit. How many times have you seen people swear that 90% of the music No Limit made was wack and that they made it cool for wack rappers to get shine.They favored and still favor Dungeon Family over No Limit and CMR. I'm talking about people who place emphasis on lyrics and content over production. You're not being honest if you don't constantly see statements from Hip Hop fans that on nearly every Southern act, but hold Kast and Scarface in high regard and even say Kast and Scarface are the only Southern acts they ever respected like that. Later, Ludacris started getting the same kind of respect as an MC too. Some people even put Wayne and to a lesser extent, T.I. in that echelon of rappers too in regard to Southern rappers. Most every other Southern rapper is underrated in that regard.

I didn't say OutKast was the first to bring creativity and lyricism to the South. I'm saying that they opened up ears because when Kast came on the scene, The South was still marginalized. The South wasn't looked at in the same light as the East or the West.

im in a rush.

- the only people that file under the core rap audience that hated on NL & CMR were people who had coastal bias and hated the fact that they were changing the game.
- of course when youre on the frontline, moving the needle & changing the game, youre gonna get hit with stones. thats all apart of progress.
- even after outkast blew up, the south was still seen in the same exact light. they changed nothing.

i feel like i need to scrap this and start you off with the basics. im not trying to be disrespectful but you have no hip-hop acumen whatsoever. its like you jumped in this head-first with no understanding and you want to argue to the death about things. i feel like alot of people who have a problem with this thread are in the same boat, but just arent as articulate as you.

 

[Wacky D]

Then why did they sign to a major with a standard record deal when there were indies throughout the south during that time?

I think they wanted to keep their regional sound...But to say they wanted to be regional is something I would find hard to believe..

Suave House had distribution thru universal and realitivity during their times..So they had access to covers like the Source...

i wish i worded my posts like this without all the anger.

i dont mean to dog out @JustCKing the way i do. i always get mad at myself for it. i just dont have the patience like you and some others.

i wish yall would post more in these threads. you always hold it down tho.

 

[JustCKing]

Then why did they sign to a major with a standard record deal when there were indies throughout the south during that time?

I think they wanted to keep their regional sound...But to say they wanted to be regional is something I would find hard to believe..

Suave House had distribution thru universal and realitivity during their times..So they had access to covers like the Source...

Jive is a major, but UGK still moved like they were on an indie. They were moving units without having much promo or radio or video play. Signing with Jive helped them reach markets in The South beyond just Texas, they probably wouldn't have reached by staying indie. Them wanting to stay regional is not a stretch. They turned down a lot of opportunities that could've potentially made them bigger. Not only that, but again, you had Pimp C making it a point that they didn't want or care about mass appeal even within Hip Hop circles.

Distribution didn't get you a Source cover though. There's a lot of artists who were huge that never got a Source cover.

 

[Wacky D]

They turned down a lot of opportunities that could've potentially made them bigger..

dog.

they were featured on big pimpin & sippin on syrup at the same dam time.
they were all over no limit albums to the point that alot of people thought they were signed to master p
in the latter years, bun b appeared on dam near everybodys album.
theres been a ridiculous movement amongst south rappers & the industry to bolster UGK's legacy into that of an all-time top 10 group and theyre still pushing.

and after all that........theyre still regional legends.

if they aint national after all that, then it just wasnt in the cards for them. doesnt matter whatever opportunities they turned down.

 

[JustCKing]

im in a rush.

- the only people that file under the core rap audience that hated on NL & CMR were people who had coastal bias and hated the fact that they were changing the game.
- of course when youre on the frontline, moving the needle & changing the game, youre gonna get hit with stones. thats all apart of progress.
- even after outkast blew up, the south was still seen in the same exact light. they changed nothing.

i feel like i need to scrap this and start you off with the basics. im not trying to be disrespectful but you have no hip-hop acument whatsoever. its like you jumped in this head-first with no understanding and you want to argue to the death about things. i feel like alot of people who have a problem with this thread are in the same boat, but just arent as articulate as you.

They weren't people who had coastal bias because the same people who hated on NL & CMR were the same ones who'd tell you they bumped Scarface and Outkast.

No Limit wasn't just being hit with stones. Those weren't just some whispers in the street. This was even addressed on their albums. No Limit was hit with everything from being biters to killing Hip Hop.

The South wasn't seen in the same light. The South wasn't exactly what it became in the mid-'00's where you heard Southern acts everywhere, but OutKast made it to where you couldn't just overlook or write The South off as some fluke.

 

[JustCKing]

dog.

they were featured on big pimpin & sippin on syrup at the same dam time.
they were all over no limit albums to the point that alot of people thought they were signed to master p
in the latter years, bun b appeared on dam near everybodys album.
theres been a ridiculous movement amongst south rappers & the industry to bolster UGK's legacy into that of an all-time top 10 group and theyre still pushing.

and after all that........theyre still regional legends.

if they aint national after all that, then it just wasnt in the cards for them. doesnt matter whatever opportunities they turned down.

And again, everybody is familiar that Bun B and Pimp C were split on doing "Big Pimpin" and that them doing that song caused the label to try to force them to make a Part 2.

"Sippin' On Syrup" and their features on No Limit was nothing outside of the realm of UGK sonically or content wise. UGK were not rappin' over beats that sounded anything like "Big Pimpin".

 

[SirBiatch]

I'm not following this convo so I can't really side with anyone here but this comment caught my attention:

the credibility or respect from whom? writers & internet purists?

the core rap audience f*cked with those cliques much harder than they f*cked with the dungeon family.

and lol @ giving outkast credit for bringing lyrics & creativity to the south as if they were the 1st to do any of that.

I have to agree with you on this one.

I was a No Limit guy and my brother was a Cash Money dude. Neither of us have ever owned an Outkast CD.

I remember hearing Aquemini in 99 and thinking it was straight doo doo (with the exception of the Slick Rick joint)

Looking back on it, I never liked Cash Money with the exception of Juvenile. I thought they were stone cold trash. Like "killing hip hop" wack. Funny how I never felt that way about No Limit. So I can understand if older listeners (I was in high school in 99) thought both of those camps were stone cold trash.

Anyway, carry on

 

[shopthatwrecks]

these dudes are like the tim teebow of hip-hop(really, it should be the other way around. but yall get the point). so i guess that makes me stephen a.

im trying not to lose my cool when arguing with idiots. plus im not down with boosting thread numbers for dudes that i dont know. its time to do a part 2 to one of the goat threads in internet history.

and im gonna keep it civil by focusing in on the task at hand. FOR THE RECORD, i was listening to outkast before most of their hipster internet fans that argue me down were even listening to rap. i didnt have a problem with them until the past 8 years when the media started revising history in their favor, and suddenly all these little internet dudes started claiming outkast as goat group contenders out of nowhere.

heres the thing. you cant just say that somebody is in the running for goat, simply because theyre your favorites. they have to possess the credentials of such a group. and they dont. they lack in just about every category. and we're gonna break it down in here.

and im gonna start with this. this is one of my favorites:

1.) when they were actually good and in their prime, they werent even a top tier group. how could you possibly be a top 5 all-time group when you werent even top 5 when you were hot? and do remember, they were always one of the better promoted groups, had one of the goat machines behind them, and were promoted better than half the groups that were ahead of them.

stay tuned. more on the way.

good in their prime...who was better....

 

[Wacky D]

I'm not following this convo so I can't really side with anyone here but this comment caught my attention:



I have to agree with you on this one.

I was a No Limit guy and my brother was a Cash Money dude. Neither of us have ever owned an Outkast CD.

I remember hearing Aquemini in 99 and thinking it was straight doo doo (with the exception of the Slick Rick joint)

Looking back on it, I never liked Cash Money with the exception of Juvenile. I thought they were stone cold trash. Like "killing hip hop" wack. Funny how I never felt that way about No Limit. So I can understand if older listeners (I was in high school in 99) thought both of those camps were stone cold trash.

Anyway, carry on

yep.

pretty much, the moral to the story is that with relevance comes criticism.

@JustCKing needs to realize that dungeon family was void of criticism from the CORE audience because people didnt care for them like that. they were one of the MANY artists who you either liked or you didnt. they were basically in the backpack bracket. nobody sat around debating about no dungeon family. the only people sitting around thinking about them like that - generally speaking - were the journalists and the types that share their line of thinking. so, yea of course theyre gonna get high marks and 5 mics for an album that niccas wasnt even checkin for.

as opposed to what @SirBiatch is saying about him being a no limit guy and his brother reppin CMR. they probably argued about that chit on the reg too. just like millions of others.

 

[Wacky D]

i know right?

aquemini is a 4 tops.
really i give it 3.75

good in their prime...who was better....

we covered that for like 20 pages already.

 

[Wacky D]

They weren't people who had coastal bias because the same people who hated on NL & CMR were the same ones who'd tell you they bumped Scarface and Outkast.

No Limit wasn't just being hit with stones. Those weren't just some whispers in the street. This was even addressed on their albums. No Limit was hit with everything from being biters to killing Hip Hop.

lol.

youre proving my point and you dont even realize it.

And again, everybody is familiar that Bun B and Pimp C were split on doing "Big Pimpin" and that them doing that song caused the label to try to force them to make a Part 2.

"Sippin' On Syrup" and their features on No Limit was nothing outside of the realm of UGK sonically or content wise. UGK were not rappin' over beats that sounded anything like "Big Pimpin".

but yet they still did big pimpin..........and they were still stuck at square one.
they did sizzzurrpp and no limit songs.........and they were still stuck at square one.

what more do you want? they just didnt have IT on a national scale.