Reasons Why Outkast Will Never Be Seen As GOAT Contenders By Most Real Heads

[JustCKing]

LOL. you claim that theres no support to my premise, but ive sat back and watched numerous people son you for pages, without me even chiming in most of the time.

and that's not even my most-dapped post. but whatever. I'm not into daps and all that little internet chit. i mean, i appreciate the daps, and i always dap others, even if i don t agree with them, but that chit dont make or breaky my posts. and overall, the whole point of this exchange is for you dudes to STOP LYING. saying "nobody agrees with you" when youre arguing with someone else besides me half the time, is the most low-level form of a desperation post.

and yea, outkast is obviously a top 2 favored group on this board. that's pretty much the whole point of the thread, smart guy.

I didn't state there was NO support. My point is that the there's an overwhelming amount of support in this thread of Kast being GOAT contenders. It doesn't matter what's happened or what you think happened in other threads. In THIS thread, your thread, there's an overwhelming amount of people disagreeing with you.

You mentioned the daps first. I pointed out that the "tons of daps" you claimed you got was considerably less than the ones that are disagreeing with you. Nobody's lying.

Why are you even arguing this if you already know Kast is a top 2 favored group on this board?

There's far more artists that are favored on this board that don't get that kind of support offline. Nothing in the OP is specific to The Coli.

 

[JustCKing]

we already covered this. youre going in circles.....in fairness, you may not have been involved with that, so its cool.
but we already know that hip-hop journalists were on their top since day one. that's one of the main reasons why they got booed at the source awards. not just because theyre from the south, like theyre trying to paint it as in hindsight. chit, they even tried to give SPCM 5 mics out the gate.

I'm talking about mass media pushing hard for their legacy. not just the magazines & their lil chit.

but you live thru media, so its a waste of time going back n forth about this with you.

I'm not going in circles. You stated that the media started pushing Kast as a GOAT group around 2004. I pointed out that Kast got praise from the jump. You didn't know that.

Breh, they didn't get booed because the media were pushing them. You're making up excuses like you always do. They were there. I'm sure they know more about why they were booed than you do.

You're claiming that I'm the one living through the media, but the media, according to you, is one of the reasons you're getting at Kast. You're letting them influence how you view an artist and their music. Just because your opinion is contrary to how Kast is portrayed by the media, doesn't mean that their opinion hasn't influenced yours, you've stated as much. You're no different than the impressionable mind that sees a magazine saying such and such is GOAT, so they base their entire opinion around that quote. The only difference is that your opinion is contrary. The media is still influencing your opinion.

 

[JustCKing]

I never discredited them as a legit hip-hop act at all. youre getting me confused with some of the numerous other people that youre in here arguing with.......even tho, you like to claim that youre just arguing with me.

what I discredit is their sales, because their numbers were always boosted by sales outside of the genre, hence the reason why their impact never matched the amount of retail sold.

you can never compare outkast to a jay-z. LOL. that's laughable.
for starters; this analogy is way off, seeing that jay & outkast didn't come from the same situation.
- jay-z was indeed poppin in '96. he was an independent street artist, who still made noise commercially, and managed to be a bigger factor in the game than outkast, who were signed to laface/arista. not only in '96, but from their inception.
- reasonable doubt was indeed classic in the streets up north. and he went gold and had hit records. he did what he was supposed to do.
- jay was the clearly the man in 2000-2002. and why would you even bring up this argument? when was outkast ever anywhere near being them dudes?
- in hip-hop, jay was bigger before he married beyonce
- jay is not in my top 5, and I cant stand the guy nowadays, but youre short-changing him. if its all about commercial success & media hype, then a lot of different names would be in that conversation.
- no argument against the wave-riding.

its not about just having the overrated tag attached to you because youre up there in goat convos. this thread is about a group that doesn't belong in such convos, and the fact that the majority of their fans that are pushing for them, quite frankly aren't hip to what was and is going on, and don't really belong PERIOD. I remember a time when most of these L7s wouldn't even be hip-hop fans. youre one of them, by the way. GET MAD CHUMP.

You did try to discredit them:

theyve had minimal impact on the culture. im not talking about in the pop world or the r&B realm. im talking about in HIP-HOP. i could care less how many records they sold off of "hey ya" and how many grammies and fruity accolades they got off that extra-curricular chit. and for the record, SB/TLB only sold 5 mil. not 10. it was a double cd, and it came out when double cds were cheap on top of that.

^^^ That's an attempt to discredit.

Like I said, the Jay comparison wasn't intended to start another argument. It was a comparison of arguments used against him by people who think he doesn't belong in GOAT convos. Every point about Jay are all points that people use to discredit Jay or say he's overrated. Nowhere did I say they were true statements. Seeing as you understand how ludicrous such statements are, you're making up the same type of garbage to discredit Kast. What's funny is you question my comprehension, but you went on to argue each bullet point after I clearly stated those were points people use to discredit Jay. You can't say it isn't true because one of the few times I've agreed with you was a thread about Jay not poppin' in '96 in which we agreed that he actually was poppin'. Jay wasn't bigger than no OutKast in '96 though. They had three hit singles and a platinum album. Jay didn't have a platinum album until '97 nor did he have a single bigger than Kast singles until around '98.

There are posters who truly believe no "real Hip Hop head" would put Jay Z in a GOAT convo either. I've seen it and what's funny is the poster who stated (don't know if it was this board or another one), but they used DJ Premier's quote about Jay being "just a rapper" vs. being an MC to justify the argument. That's why I made the comparison because what you're doing with this thread is no different than what they were doing.

As proven, you're nobody to be saying who does or doesn't belong in a GOAT convo. All you can do is get mad that people do. You're fighting an already lost battle.

 

[Wacky D]

"real heads"


. It's all subjective bro, they're some people's GOAT group, others have different GOAT groups. . Check their track record, as long as the work says that it's plausible then it can be argued, that's all that matters.

I have checked their track record. it reads more like a top 25-40 group.

theres a difference between being somones favorite and someones GOAT. but most people don't realize that, and everything gets lost in translation because of it.

 

[JustCKing]

I have checked their track record. it reads more like a top 25-40 group.

theres a difference between being somones favorite and someones GOAT. but most people don't realize that, and everything gets lost in translation because of it.

There's also a difference between you thinking they aren't in a GOAT discussion and them being actually being in a GOAT discussion. You don't realize that and that's why you're lost in translation because of it.

 

[Wacky D]

You stay contradicting yourself. Just admit it breh, you were not up on La Face in the 90's. That's why you keep moving goal posts from the parent label (Arista) to the city of Atlanta. Atlanta is part of The South, a region you claim didn't blow until No Limit and CMR. Now all of a sudden, Atlanta had a takeover that occurred in the early 90's. Let me guess who you think spearheaded this takeover (Kriss Kross, Arrested Development, R&B groups like Silk and TLC). LOL.

Breh, I'm already me and have no desire to be built like someone who lacks a solid foundation and is built on straw (conjecture, generalizations, and glat out lies).

Breh, you argue your points like you're still 5, so yeah I wouldn't compare myself to someone who supports an argument with statements like:

- you weren't around

- you don't go outside

i didnt contradict anything. youre combining 2 different topics as one. this is why youre always a ball of confusion.

master p/no limit blew the southern rap scene up as a viable coast in the hip-hop world.
BUT in terms of black music & entertainment as a whole, Atlanta has been establishing itself as the black entertainment capital since the early '90s. if YOU were up on laface like you claim, then you should know this. SMH. theres a reason why so many people packed up and went down there to get deals. you just mentioned TLC. look at how they formed. theyre a prime example. the biggest star of that group is from philly. she went down there to get a record deal. I'm sure you know this. use some common sense. you mention SILK. come on. keith sweat is from new York but hes down there in Atlanta, putting on groups like silk & kut klose.

BE SMART SON.

new Orleans made the south into a viable coast IN HIP-HOP.
but in black music as a whole, Atlanta was already up there with new York, and prolly greater than new York by that point. they just didn't capture the hip-hop crowd. it was moreso r&b and mainstream rap that was r&b-based or attracted r&b crowds in the same vein.

as for the bolded, those are indeed important factors.

 

[Wacky D]

There's also a difference between you thinking they aren't in a GOAT discussion and them being actually being in a GOAT discussion. You don't realize that and that's why you're lost in translation because of it.

lol. stop trying to repeat & flip my words back on me.

the bolded doesn't even make sense. you don't speak the language.

 

[Wacky D]

outkast didn't have a big arista in the early 90s, that happened in 2000.

it says they sold the remaining 50%.

who do you think owned the other 50% already?

be smart son.

 

[Wacky D]

just observing that's all. funny you think everything results in a struck nerve or are insults.

like someone that isn't you posting = mad and isn't have fun either.

then why are you just observing me? why not observe everybody?

as for the bolded, you should ask yourself that question. especially considering that youre the one that started this exchange.

I see ole boy disappeared from the thread after that.

one of those tu-bob posters that smile in your face, then try to pull some chit like this.

we checkin nuts and everything in this thread.

 

[Deltron]

why should I have to argue with you? What type of exchange were you looking for?

You're basically trying to force your opinion as facts, which is funny in itself.

 

[JustCKing]

i didnt contradict anything. youre combining 2 different topics as one. this is why youre always a ball of confusion.

master p/no limit blew the southern rap scene up as a viable coast in the hip-hop world.
BUT in terms of black music & entertainment as a whole, Atlanta has been establishing itself as the black entertainment capital since the early '90s. if YOU were up on laface like you claim, then you should know this. SMH. theres a reason why so many people packed up and went down there to get deals. you just mentioned TLC. look at how they formed. theyre a prime example. the biggest star of that group is from philly. she went down there to get a record deal. I'm sure you know this. use some common sense. you mention SILK. come on. keith sweat is from new York but hes down there in Atlanta, putting on groups like silk & kut klose.

BE SMART SON.

new Orleans made the south into a viable coast IN HIP-HOP.
but in black music as a whole, Atlanta was already up there with new York, and prolly greater than new York by that point. they just didn't capture the hip-hop crowd. it was moreso r&b and mainstream rap that was r&b-based or attracted r&b crowds in the same vein.

as for the bolded, those are indeed important factors.

It is contradictory. La Face was a separate entity even though Arista was the parent company much like Bad Boy was it's own entity though it operated under the Arista umbrella. Two different things. Then you claimed you were too lazy to type out La Face .

Master P/No Limit did not blow up the Southern rap scene as a viable coast in the Hip Hop world. You admitted as much when you pretty much agreed that they were erroneously viewed in the same light as Lil' Jon. Many viewed Master P/No Limit as the downfall of Hip Hop and erroneously boxed them in as some simple country bumpkins with no lyrics or substance. It's a stance that I don't agree and easily debunked because Mac, Mystikal, Mia, and Fiend had lyrics. Master P even had his moments. Even Silkk. They also had a lot of substance. Unfortunately, a lot of the singles didn't showcase that.

La Face didn't establish Atlanta as the Black entertainment capital. It helped, but Atlanta establishing itself as the Black entertainment capital was a culmination of things. TLC and how they were formed had nothing to do with Atlanta becoming the Black entertainment capital. And even with La Face, nobody on that label repped Atlanta as hard as Kast and Goodie Mob. Kast and Goodie wasn't some R&B based music or music that primarily attracted R&B crowds.

New Orleans didn't make the South into a viable coast because a lot of them weren't even taken serious like that. Master P put New Orleans on the map. The South already had artists from Florida, Texas, and Georgia that had blown and you still had Tennessee that was making noise as well.

Again you're contradicting yourself. You're putting Atlanta up there with New York during that time, but want to argue that New Orleans made The South viable in Hip Hop. You do realize that Kast already had two platinum albums before anyone from New Orleans even blew. Master P was still doing West Coast music and even he didn't put out the first Down South Hustlers compilation until '95.

 

[Wacky D]

OutKast was not an off shoot of West Coast groups. An off shoot is something that is or was a part of another, but becomes its own separate entity i.e. OutKast and Goodie Mob are off shoots of Dungeon Family. Kast was influenced heavily by Dr. Dre's The Chronic and Souls of Mischief, which is something they have stated.

Mobb Deep was not a bigger factor across the map.

OutKast not existing would make a difference. They are one of the pioneers in Southern rap and along with The Geto Boys and Scarface forged a level of respect for Southern Hip Hop that wasn't there. They also pushed boundaries in Hip Hop in terms of what could be done musically. Therefore OutKast was a factor because before them The South was the region of booty anthems and one hit/one albun wonders outside of Geto Boys and Face.

youre right about the "off-shoot" thing. a poor choice of words on my part. that's not the term I was looking for.

outkast didn't pioneer anything. the pioneer southern rappers were late '80s-early '90s. outkast was nowhere to be found.
nor did outkast have a hand in blowing the south up. that was the new Orleans boys.

what level of respect did outkast forge? you mean when they got booed out of the building?

pushed what boundaries? you mean stat-padding by making albums that were most purchased outside of the rap crowd? that lane was already available before outkast. they weren't even the first in their crew that pushed those boundaries. cee-lo was already at it, and doing it better actually.

nothing would be different had they not existed.

 

[Wacky D]

why should I have to argue with you? What type of exchange were you looking for?

You're basically trying to force your opinion as facts, which is funny in itself.

but you came in here arguing with me already. trying to make it look like I had a problem, because you cant conjure up a good argument.

and your posts had nothing to do with the topic, so the 2nd line of this post is bullchit dap-fishing, just like your whole "stance" in this thread.

but hey, dont mind me. I was just catching up with the posts I didn't read in this thread, and came across our exchange. we were somewhat cool before this. its funny how quick a lot of yall will flip the switch. but that's that new-internet culture. ole tu-bob ass.

you cant even look me in the face(TAG ME)

go observe that.

 

[JustCKing]

outkast didn't pioneer anything. the pioneer southern rappers were late '80s-early '90s. outkast was nowhere to be found.
nor did outkast have a hand in blowing the south up. that was the new Orleans boys.

what level of respect did outkast forge? you mean when they got booed out of the building?

pushed what boundaries? you mean stat-padding by making albums that were most purchased outside of the rap crowd? that lane was already available before outkast. they weren't even the first in their crew that pushed those boundaries. cee-lo was already at it, and doing it better actually.

nothing would be different had they not existed.

OutKast are pioneers. They were a part of the Southern pioneers of the early 90's. Kast had a platinum album in '94. No rapper from New Orleans would sniff that until '97.

OutKast aside from Face and Geto Boys were the only Southern acts that got respect for lyrics. Something that "the New Orleans boys" didn't get props for.

They pushed boundaries with albums like ATLiens and Aquemini. They were incorporating elements into their music that you wouldn't hear from other artists especially on a mainstream level. Nothing sounded like "Elevators", "ATLiens", "Rosa Parks", "Spottieottiedopalicious", "E.T.", "Synthesizer" etc.

A lot would be different had they not existed. Had Kast not existed, you wouldn't be making this ridiculous thread butt-hurt over the fact that they do exist. Your existence as a poster would be null and void.

 

[Wacky D]

It is contradictory. La Face was a separate entity even though Arista was the parent company much like Bad Boy was it's own entity though it operated under the Arista umbrella. Two different things. Then you claimed you were too lazy to type out La Face .

Master P/No Limit did not blow up the Southern rap scene as a viable coast in the Hip Hop world. You admitted as much when you pretty much agreed that they were erroneously viewed in the same light as Lil' Jon. Many viewed Master P/No Limit as the downfall of Hip Hop and erroneously boxed them in as some simple country bumpkins with no lyrics or substance. It's a stance that I don't agree and easily debunked because Mac, Mystikal, Mia, and Fiend had lyrics. Master P even had his moments. Even Silkk. They also had a lot of substance. Unfortunately, a lot of the singles didn't showcase that.

La Face didn't establish Atlanta as the Black entertainment capital. It helped, but Atlanta establishing itself as the Black entertainment capital was a culmination of things. TLC and how they were formed had nothing to do with Atlanta becoming the Black entertainment capital. And even with La Face, nobody on that label repped Atlanta as hard as Kast and Goodie Mob. Kast and Goodie wasn't some R&B based music or music that primarily attracted R&B crowds.

New Orleans didn't make the South into a viable coast because a lot of them weren't even taken serious like that. Master P put New Orleans on the map. The South already had artists from Florida, Texas, and Georgia that had blown and you still had Tennessee that was making noise as well.

Again you're contradicting yourself. You're putting Atlanta up there with New York during that time, but want to argue that New Orleans made The South viable in Hip Hop. You do realize that Kast already had two platinum albums before anyone from New Orleans even blew. Master P was still doing West Coast music and even he didn't put out the first Down South Hustlers compilation until '95.

clive davis had more vested interest in laface than bad boy.

quote my whole statement. in the bolded, I said they were viewed that way by SOME. the biased types. and that's not a bad thing, because lil jon & esb are the ones that made Atlanta into a viable scene on the rap map. NOT OUTKAST. so youre digging a hole by bringing that lil jon convo into this thread.

as for the Atlanta entertainment capital thing; youre just arguing for the sake of arguing, and not trying to use your brain - which is what everybody says when they get into a back-n-forth with you.
lol. the groups that you name-dropped and how they got on, are proof of what I'm saying. USE YOUR BRAIN. ITS NOT ABOUT REPPIN ATLANTA. nobody has to rep it at all. it was clearly a go-to place for the industry since the EARLY '90s.

it doesn't matter who was taken serious and who wasn't by certain people. LETS BE REALITY, most hip-hop heads still don't take the south seriously in 2017. BE SMART SON!!!!!!

nobody is saying that the south didn't already have artists. clearly that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the south wasn't a factor before master p. there were successful acts, but the region as a whole wasn't checked for beforehand. you get checked on this regularly by a lot of people, btw.

yes I know that outkast was successful but AS MANY PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU, they were a hybrid group. that's what boosted their sales. they couldn't even put make Atlanta relevant on the RAP MAP.