Rand Paul Confronts the GOP's Race Problem

[Dyce25]

well again unless you have been living under a rock, its been and is used as a metric in public policy

you are the one that keeps bringing up segregation and keeps saying that segregation is bad by definition, you said that there are "densely packed minority areas" and im asking what is wrong with having "densely packed minority areas" and you keep saying they are bad by definition

IMO by you making the "densely packed minority areas" a negative by defintion you are using that as a way to measure how how well minorities are doing

so you can deny it but in the end you are using segregation as a metric

segregation is bad when it is government mandated otherwise its actually none of the government's business unless somebody's right to live wherever they want to live is being violated



i understand what you are saying, what i am saying is that you maybe have misunderstood what i meant by an open economic system, i mean it literally

im not a libertarian, i use their ideas but i dont support an libertarian economic system

i do agree with libertarians on the importance of an open economic system in economic development so i support policies that promote an open economic system

I've already explained why it's a bad thing, but I guess you've chosen to ignore that, unless your comprehension skills have once again failed you. They certainly have on the second bold section, because you STILL aren't getting my point. Saying I misunderstand your position on a Libertarian style open economic system is just incorrect (as this is the first time you've said you don't support it). I understand your position, and I'm telling you that the people of this nation would become polarized as minorities were drawn into concentrated areas (directly as a result of that type of system). This would result in almost complete separation and only hurt minority populations overall (as I've already explained).

 

[Dyce25]

Im telling you @Dyce25, @theworldismine just likes to hear himself talk.

Well, I'm new around here, so I figured I'd give him a chance to speak his mind. It now just appears that I'm arguing with someone that isn't ignorant (though his misunderstandings and misrepresentations are making me question this presumption now), but is definitely not too educated on this topic overall and the intertwining issues at hand here. Thanks for that warning earlier; I should have listened.

 

[theworldismine13]

I've already explained why it's a bad thing, but I guess you've chosen to ignore that, unless your comprehension skills have once again failed you. They certainly have on the second bold section, because you STILL aren't getting my point. Saying I misunderstand your position on a Libertarian style open economic system is just incorrect. I understand your position, and I'm telling you that the people of this nation would become polarized as minorities were drawn into concentrated areas (directly as a result of that type of system). This would result in almost complete separation and only hurt minority populations overall (as I've already explained).

and if you think its a bad thing thats fine, and we disagree, i think its whatever, im not worried about "densely packed minority areas" im worried about violation of rights

and i never said libertarian style open economic system, i just meant it literally, that it is important to have an open system, meaning everybody is allowed to participate

an open economic system will not hurt minorities, that is ridiculous, what hurts minorities is when their economic and individual rights are violated

 

[Dyce25]

and if you think its a bad thing thats fine, and we disagree, i think its whatever, im not worried about "densely packed minority areas" im worried about violation of rights

and i never said libertarian style open economic system, i just meant it literally, that it is important to have an open system, meaning everybody is allowed to participate

an open economic system will not hurt minorities, that is ridiculous, what hurts minorities is when their economic and individual rights are violated

You've been arguing in favor OF Libertarian style economics this entire thread until you just now said you do not support it; yet, you still weirdly have explained your position in favor of it. The bold is correct. You just don't seem to understand that those would inevitably occur if minorities were drawn back into concentrated areas. We already have a theoretically "open economy" in America.

 

[theworldismine13]

You've been arguing in favor OF Libertarian style economics this entire thread until you just now said you do not support it; yet, you still weirdly have explained your position in favor of it. The bold is correct.

ive been arguing that the framework used by libertarians that frames the issue as a violation of economic and individual rights is superior to the framework that says racism and segregation is the cause of problems in minority communities

and i actually stated that i disagree with the libertarian notion that economic discrimination is acceptable

so im simply saying the parts a agree with, i was not endorsing a libertarian economic system

You just don't seem to understand that those would inevitably occur if minorities were drawn back into concentrated areas. We already have a theoretically "open economy" in America.

and i understand your assertion, i just disagree with it, there is nothing wrong with "densely packed minority areas" unless it is government mandated or rights are being violated

america has never had an open economic system, i have no idea what you are talking about, america has had government mandated limits and discrimination that limited who can participate in the economy

 

[Dyce25]

ive been arguing that the framework used by libertarians that frames the issue as a violation of economic and individual rights is superior to the framework that says racism and segregation is the cause of problems in minority communities

and i actually stated that i disagree with the libertarian notion that economic discrimination is acceptable

so im simply saying the parts a agree with, i was not endorsing a libertarian economic system



and i understand your assertion, i just disagree with it, there is nothing wrong with "densely packed minority areas" unless it is government mandated or rights are being violated

america has never had an open economic system, i have no idea what you are talking about, america has had government mandated limits and discrimination that limited who can participate in the economy

Um... Maybe it is you that is mistaken about what an "open economy" is. A "closed economy" has no imports or exports. It's economy is closed to the outside world; it is self-sufficient. An "open economy" on the other hand, is one that allows "economic activities between domestic communities and outside" qtd. on simple Wikipedia. I hope you aren't seriously claiming America has a "closed economy." If you are, then, yes, you are totally too un- or under-educated to speak on this subject at all, and especially to engage with me on this subject. I'm hitting the sheets for tonight.

 

[theworldismine13]

Um... Maybe it is you that is mistaken about what an "open economy" is. A "closed economy" has no imports or exports. It's economy is closed to the outside world; it is self-sufficient. An "open economy" on the other hand, is one that allows "economic activities between domestic communities and outside" qtd. on simple Wikipedia. I hope you aren't seriously claiming America has a "closed economy." If you are, then, yes, you are totally too un- or under-educated to speak on this subject at all, and especially to engage with me on this subject.

sure, in terms of the world economy the us is relatively open, its not exactly open either way, but compared to other countries it is open

but i think already said that when i said open economic system i meant it literally and i thought its obvious i was talking about the domestic economy

and im saying that the american economy has been closed off to certain people through discrimination, government mandates and the violation of the economic and individual rights of african americans and native americans, that has been the history of the us

its absurd to say that the us economy has been historically open to black people, so from the point of view of black people the us economy is not open

 

[Dyce25]

sure, in terms of the world economy the us is relatively open, its not exactly open either way, but compared to other countries it is open

but i think already said that when i said open economic system i meant it literally and i thought its obvious i was talking about the domestic economy

and im saying that the american economy has been closed off to certain people through discrimination, government mandates and the violation of the economic and individual rights of african americans and native americans, that has been the history of the us

its absurd to say that the us economy has been historically open to black people, so from the point of view of black people the us economy is not open

I didn't say it was an open economy "historically." I said it is an open economy today. You're basically saying you like the status quo as you want an "open economy," but not a Libertarian one. Well, fortunately, that's exactly what we have today. It seems as if you think because there is some regulation, that it is somehow not an "open economy." I'm sorry, but that's just not the way an "open economy" works (were you perhaps searching for another term?). I'm honestly not trying to be rude, but it seems you have a lot to learn on this subject. Saying that the U.S. isn't an open economy, thankfully, isn't a serious position to hold as it is a fact that it is; therefore, it's not a position I have to argue vehemently against as my view is founded in fact - not just an opinion.

 

[Mook]

I wish they could discriminate. then you'd see some goat soul food spot every corner

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[theworldismine13]

I didn't say it was an open economy "historically." I said it is an open economy today. You're basically saying you like the status quo as you want an "open economy," but not a Libertarian one. Well, fortunately, that's exactly what we have today. It seems as if you think because there is some regulation, that it is somehow not an "open economy." I'm sorry, but that's just not the way an "open economy" works (were you perhaps searching for another term?). I'm honestly not trying to be rude, but it seems you have a lot to learn on this subject. Saying that the U.S. isn't an open economy, thankfully, isn't a serious position to hold as it is a fact that it is; therefore, it's not a position I have to argue vehemently against as my view is founded in fact - not just an opinion.

the only valid point youve made is in the previous post that 'open economy' usually refers to trade between nations, so its not really the right phrase to use in discussing the domestic economy, but like i explained i was using it more literally and as a descriptor

but even using the economic definition of open economy, the us still doesnt have an open economy, no country does, but relative to most countries the us economy is very open, but that is neither here nor there

what i meant by open economy just means that everybody participates in the economy, the point was that having an open economy should be the policy goal, that is all it meant, not everybody participates in the economy, so the way i was using it and from the point of view of black people the us doesnt have an open economy, i wasn't referring to regulations as much as i was referring to the violations of the economic and individual rights of minorities, those violations mean the us doesn't have an "open economy"

 

[Dyce25]

the only valid point youve made is in the previous post that 'open economy' usually refers to trade between nations, so its not really the right phrase to use in discussing the domestic economy, but like i explained i was using it more literally and as a descriptor

but even using the economic definition of open economy, the us still doesnt have an open economy, no country does, but relative to most countries the us economy is very open, but that is neither here nor there

what i meant by open economy just means that everybody participates in the economy, the point was that having an open economy should be the policy goal, that is all it meant, not everybody participates in the economy, so the way i was using it and from the point of view of black people the us doesnt have an open economy, i wasn't referring to regulations as much as i was referring to the violations of the economic and individual rights of minorities, those violations mean the us doesn't have an "open economy"

First, you are just incorrect in stating that the U.S. doesn't have an open economy; it doesn't matter how many times you restate your position. Your claim that no country has an open economy is just patently false. As for your claim that blacks somehow can't participate in the domestic economy at present - well, that's incorrect as well. Minorities (blacks especially) were oppressed in the past, and also by the past's consequences on the present, but that doesn't change the actual black-and-white policies that are on the books in this country presently.

You're arguing confused, imaginary positions. You've been sold an idealistic view, and you're not even sure why you support this view (as you can't articulate it very well). In other words, you're trying to force reality into reinforcing your point, but reality points toward a totally different conclusion. It's becoming increasingly likely that you just stumbled upon a philosophy that sounded cool to you, and you're now trying to make things fit into it. The better method would be to let the evidence lead to its inevitable conclusion and accept whatever that may be. I may well be totally off-base, but I'm beginning to suspect you're not over the age of 20 as well, and if you are, I seriously can't see you being past 22 with these uniformed, idealistic ideas that have no basis in reality.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

The reason segragation is bad is because you are purposely limiting yourself. The most succesful business/products got that way because they attracted a very wide and diverse set of potential customers. If you come up with a product/service and purposely limit yourself to 17% of the country you have failed before you even started. Same with education. We don't live in America by ourselves and you can't make it through life only dealing with black people. By doing so you only limit yourself. You only know how to interact and appeal to your small closed in community so you have absolutely no chance in branching out and becoming succesful in a global sense.


@theworldismine13 always talks about "black people should want to dominate" then he endorses ideology that by definition limits us to not only being NOT dominant, but not even equal.

The shyt doesn't make any sense

 

[theworldismine13]

First, you are just incorrect in stating that the U.S. doesn't have an open economy; it doesn't matter how many times you restate your position. Your claim that no country has an open economy is just patently false. As for your claim that blacks somehow can't participate in the domestic economy at present - well, that's incorrect as well. Minorities (blacks especially) were oppressed in the past, and also by the past's consequences on the present, but that doesn't change the actual black-and-white policies that are on the books in this country presently.

well again, you brought up the formal definition of an open economy, which i admitted is a valid point, but under the formal definition, no country has an actual open economy, all countries have some form of tariffs or trade barriers, so under that formal definition the us economy is open RELATIVE to other countries but its not actually a fully open economy, actual open economies do not exist internationally

but again that is neither her nor there, since, as i explained, when i said open economy i wasnt using it formally, i was just saying literally the us economy isnt and wasnt open to minorities and the policy goal should be to make it open to minorities

i have no idea what planet or country you are coming from, but its an obvious fact that black people do not fully participate in the american economy, so from our point of view the us economy is not open

You're arguing confused, imaginary positions. You've been sold an idealistic view, and you're not even sure why you support this view (as you can't articulate it very well). In other words, you're trying to force reality into reinforcing your point, but reality points toward a totally different conclusion. It's becoming increasingly likely that you just stumbled upon a philosophy that sounded cool to you, and you're now trying to make things fit into it. The better method would be to let the evidence lead to its inevitable conclusion and accept whatever that may be. I may well be totally off-base, but I'm beginning to suspect you're not over the age of 20 as well, and if you are, I seriously can't see you being past 22 with these uniformed, idealistic ideas that have no basis in reality.

i have no idea what this means, i almost fell asleep reading it, there is no substance in this paragraph so i do not have any response to it

 

[theworldismine13]

The reason segragation is bad is because you are purposely limiting yourself. The most succesful business/products got that way because they attracted a very wide and diverse set of potential customers. If you come up with a product/service and purposely limit yourself to 17% of the country you have failed before you even started. Same with education. We don't live in America by ourselves and you can't make it through life only dealing with black people. By doing so you only limit yourself. You only know how to interact and appeal to your small closed in community so you have absolutely no chance in branching out and becoming succesful in a global sense.


@theworldismine13 always talks about "black people should want to dominate" then he endorses ideology that by definition limits us to not only being NOT dominant, but not even equal.

The shyt doesn't make any sense

the point i was making is that its wrong to look at high concentrations of minorities in an area as a bad thing, i think when you use segregation as a metric it misses the point of whats really going on and you come up with ineffective policies like affirmative action or busing and and also it doesnt recognize the negative aspect of desegregation that happened to black communities when educated black people left black communities

im not pro segregation, im just saying its mistake to make that a measure, there is nothing wrong with a little segregation and getting together to form business and organizations, that is a normal part of participating in a free economy

segregation is bad if its government mandated or if rights are being violated, so i think using a framework of protecting economic and individual rights is better than going around demanding desegregation and suggesting that black people are doomed without white people

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

TWIMMY has a lot of different sub characters that generally contradict each other. There's "hip hop" TWIMMY, there's pro-GOP TWIMMY, there's "intellectual freedom" TWIMMY, there's "the only path forward for black are these actions and thought patterns" TWIMMY, etc. etc. So the TWIMMY you get is dependent on the question you ask. If you say 'hey TWIMMY, you seem to keep hinting that blacks should do more voting for GOP', you get "intellectual freedom" TWIMMY. But then if you say, 'hey TWIMMY, blacks and Dems have accomplished a lot together, whats wrong with that?' you get pro-GOP TWIMMY. Maybe he should assign a different number to each sub character, so at least we can then direct questions relevant to each one to the respective sub TWIMMY.

@theworldismine13 isn't really a person, he is an argumentative algorithm and collection of mutually exclusive talking points. You can have a conversation with him for hours and come away not having learned or gained anything. Its like being lost on the road for hours and winding up where you started after burning a tank of gas.