Poor Sam Bradford......Schotty

[Street Knowledge]

We gonna act like Polian didn't petition the league to start enforcing it in the mid '00s?

Then there's the defenseless receiver plus the sensitization of the roughing the QB rules....

What specific rules where changed tho? Specifically in 04' which is what everyone talks about.

These were the rule changes of that year

"Due to several incidents during the 2003 NFL season, officials are authorized to penalize excessive celebration. The 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty will be marked off from the spot at the end of the previous play or, after a score, on the ensuing kickoff. If the infraction is ruled flagrant by the officials, the player can be ejected"

-In addition to the numbers 80–89, wide receivers will now be allowed to use numbers 10-19.

-A punt or missed field goal that is untouched by the receiving team is immediately dead once it touches either the end zone or any member of the kicking team in the end zone. Previously, a punt or missed field goal that lands in the end zone before being controlled by the kicking team could be picked up by a member of the receiving team and immediately run the other way.

-Teams will be awarded a third instant replay challenge if their first two are successful. Previously, teams were only limited to two regardless of what occurred during the game.

They changed nothing to help out offensive passing. There is a difference between changing the rules and enforcing the rules. The rules were already there(1978)

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

What specific rules where changed tho? Specifically in 04' which is what everyone talks about.

Who gives a fukk?

You're in here arguing semantics. Everyone knows the rules were on the books, but the way the game was called changed. That's the point that was made, and it's accurate.

 

[Street Knowledge]

Who gives a fukk?

You're in here arguing semantics. Everyone knows the rules were on the books, but the way the game was called changed. That's the point that was made, and it's accurate.

So no exact rule changes. Just like I said before.

Nothing to See here

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

So no exact rule changes. Just like I said before.

Nothing to See here

You're an idiot.

My first response acknowledged that it was Polian petitioning the league to enforce those rules.

But I also brought up the defenseless receiver and amendments to roughing the passer which you conveniently ignored.

Nevermind that, rule change or not, the game being officiated differently was dude's point...clown

 

[Maschine_Man]

I've been trying to tell these Johnny Come Lately cats that the QB position = game manager. If you have a special QB that can make special plays then so be it.

All this over exaggerated value of the QB position is media driven and people believe its gospel. The rule changes have inflated the QB numbers around the league. On any given Sunday you can have 10 QBs pass for over 300 yards and half of those teams will barely have 20 points, if that. That is flat out absurd to me.

LOL so you telling me that in 20 fukkin 12 the QB is a game manager now??
you gotta be kidding me.

there are more above average to great qb's in the league right now then EVER before at one time (not necessarily this year but over the last 5 years or so)

and the league average in scoring historically is only 21-22 pts per game per team
with the way defenses are getting faster and stronger I don't expect tons of points to be scored all the time, and anyone that does probably isn't a real follower of football.

The position of the QB may be exaggerated and yes they do get more credit than they most likely deserve, but that still doesn't mean that they aren't the most important player on the offense. And majority of the time the offense lives and dies off the play of the QB

It's all about parroting the flawed narrative for the lazy.

why don't you dispute it with facts and back up your position instead of just talking shyt??

 

[Maschine_Man]

All this over exaggerated value of the QB position is media driven and people believe its gospel. The rule changes have inflated the QB numbers around the league. On any given Sunday you can have 10 QBs pass for over 300 yards and half of those teams will barely have 20 points, if that. That is flat out absurd to me.

prove this, I don't believe it

last year, in the highest passing yardage and offensive season EVER only 4 teams averaged over 300 yards passing

 

[yseJ]

SMH

No, thats what is considered a game manager, and thats all he was. He did enough to no lose the game. The running game and the defense carried them that year.

and yes the job of the QB IS to control the offense. they are the one that makes the adjustments at the line. they read the defense and call the audibles (if necessary). they are the ones that start the play. they are on every offensive snap. they have the most responsibility on the offense

What is a qb to you?

I already told you what the position is to me. I view each and every player as a cog in a system, football is an ultimate TEAM game to me. qb's #1 responsibility, to me, is making good/smart decisions given his limitations, if any, according to the situation on the field and scoreboard-wise.

look, I dont think anyone says sanchez is a good qb. the point is, the jets now have tons of problems, and you wont magically fix them all by getting a new qb.

if you look at qbs who were drafted over last 5-10 years or so...almost all of them who ended up good got into good situations in the first place. they went to teams with either strong D, good coaching, good olines or good run game. or combination of these.

 

[Maschine_Man]

I already told you what the position is to me. I view each and every player as a cog in a system, football is an ultimate TEAM game to me. qb's #1 responsibility, to me, is making good/smart decisions given his limitations, if any, according to the situation on the field and scoreboard-wise.

look, I dont think anyone says sanchez is a good qb. the point is, the jets now have tons of problems, and you wont magically fix them all by getting a new qb.

if you look at qbs who were drafted over last 5-10 years or so...almost all of them who ended up good got into good situations in the first place. they went to teams with either strong D, good coaching, good olines or good run game. or combination of these.

Most qb's that are high draft picks are not going to good teams.



and a good QB can make the biggest impact on an offense. more than any other player....why is that??

its because he has the most responsibility, sure every player plays their position, they ARE cogs in the machine. I agree with that. I'm not trying to degrade any other position.


Look at Cam last year, he came in and made a huge impact. Played great, had some huge games made tons of great plays with his legs and arm.
Same with RG3 this year.

A good qb can make a huge different.

 

[yseJ]

Most qb's that are high draft picks are not going to good teams.

yes and most of them dont become great as a result

and a good QB can make the biggest impact on an offense. more than any other player....why is that??

I dont agree with that sentiment. I dont believe a QB has the biggest impact on offense unless the qb is elite or godawful. anything in between, its just another position that has been glorified by the media and the league itself

Look at Cam last year, he came in and made a huge impact. Played great, had some huge games made tons of great plays with his legs and arm.
Same with RG3 this year.

A good qb can make a huge different.

cam still needs to show he can make great decisions tho. more picks than tds aint a good look. teams will gameplan for him now so while he definitely made a great impact, it remains to be seen if its sustainable

 

[yseJ]

also when cams team becomes good...he'll have to be careful. last year he could just chuck the football or run at will, if he fukks up its not a big deal since they are usually down anyway. being down has its perks too

 

[Maschine_Man]

yes and most of them dont become great as a result

most players PERIOD don't become great for the same reasons.

I dont agree with that sentiment. I dont believe a QB has the biggest impact on offense unless the qb is elite or godawful. anything in between, its just another position that has been glorified by the media and the league itself

I can't agree with this. The QB is NOT just another position. He has to do the right thing on EVERY play or else the offence goes no where. He has to read the defense and make the adjustments if needed. no other player can say the same. The wr's only really do shyt half the time. rb's don't play every position. The line is very important but they act as a unit and not so much as individuals.

The QB position is definitely glorified, but they are also the most vilified. like I said the majority of the time the success of the offense revolves around the play of the QB. Even a "game manager" type like dilfer had to do enough to move the chains. which is why I will never call him a scrub or a bust.


cam still needs to show he can make great decisions tho. more picks than tds aint a good look. teams will gameplan for him now so while he definitely made a great impact, it remains to be seen if its sustainable

Of course he does, just like every player. But his play will determine the success or failure of that team. No othe rplayer can say the same.

 

[yseJ]

well we disagree on the heart of the problem here, so lets just agree to disagree...

I also think having success or failure tied to a single player is a dangerous thing in a team sport like football.. if such a player has a bad day...team will lose see cutler, romo, etc. when they fukk up they do it royally and with no chance of other players in picking up the slack. thats why good defenses win in the offs much more than crazy good offenses

if proverbial alex smith has a bad day...49ers can still do well

 

[Sulu]

Tannehill looked 10 x better than Bradford versus the same D

bet u wont be saying this after we play dolphins next sunday



the 1 game comparisons are stupid..

 

[Maschine_Man]

well we disagree on the heart of the problem here, so lets just agree to disagree...

I also think having success or failure tied to a single player is a dangerous thing in a team sport like football.. if such a player has a bad day...team will lose see cutler, romo, etc. when they fukk up they do it royally and with no chance of other players in picking up the slack. thats why good defenses win in the offs much more than crazy good offenses

if proverbial alex smith has a bad day...49ers can still do well

I think you just proved my point here.

If a qb has a bad day the team WILL lose. If a wr has a bad day then the team isn't necessarily fukked, same with RB, TE, FB etc

And up until last year the 9ers have sucked, and a lot of that had to do with horrible qb play, regardless who it was.

Last year Alex Smith actually played well, and was a good "game manager". he did enough to get points on the board to allow the running game and defense to win the game.


to sum up
Winning (and losing) starts with the QB. its hard to deny. No other player on the offense can make the same impact that the QB can.
a bad day and they will lose, very rarely will a team win when the qb has a bad game(multiple turnovers, low completion %,etc)
The same can not be said about any other single player.

 

[Sulu]

I think you just proved my point here.

If a qb has a bad day the team WILL lose. If a wr has a bad day then the team isn't necessarily fukked, same with RB, TE, FB etc

And up until last year the 9ers have sucked, and a lot of that had to do with horrible qb play, regardless who it was.

Last year Alex Smith actually played well, and was a good "game manager". he did enough to get points on the board to allow the running game and defense to win the game.


to sum up
Winning (and losing) starts with the QB. its hard to deny. No other player on the offense can make the same impact that the QB can.
a bad day and they will lose, very rarely will a team win when the qb has a bad game(multiple turnovers, low completion %,etc)
The same can not be said about any other single player.

NO winning starts with the Head coach... 9ers would be in the same place if it wasnt for harbaugh