Personally, what do you think of Affirmative Action?

[DEAD7]

Its no longer needed, and really does more harm than good at this point.

 

[No1]

@BarNone
Ok then

If AA doesn't artificially boost one's qualifications or artificially lower the bar for minorities then how exactly does it work? Does it force schools and employers to find more fully qualified people of color (who just aren't there)?

Stop it

What do you make of the fact that HLS graduates about 500-600 JD's per year, about 10% of which are black students, but only like 1-2 black students get cum laude (top 40%) or better per year? If the black HLS students had qualifications that were up to par, then wouldn't 40% of them get cum laude instead of like 2 per year out of 55 (less than 4%)?

Quit this politically correct/legal BS, everyone knows that AA gives unfair boosts, that's why a 4.0 black college grad with a median LSAT for HLS is an auto admit and a white student with the same stats would be a splitter who shouldn't expect to be admitted

Bro, you just made up stats that you can't cite too for one, and you obviously have been nowhere near these elite schools you're talking about. I mean look at your idiotic last paragraph. Do you realize that I told you time and again, that the LSAT is the SINGLE standardized exam where for some reason, people of color, particularly AAs perform worse on it even when socioeconomic status is taken into account. So if a black student is sporting a 4.0 and a median LSAT score for HLS' standard (which is still the top 97 percentile) it would be regarded as a 180. So of course that person is an auto admit. Second, the number of black and african-american students going to law school and taking the LSAT has been on the decline for a decade. Thus, there are very few students who are African-American sporting high LSAT scores walking around and that is why they are a premium.

Unfair based on what....you harp on law school admissions, but you obviously have never gone to an ivy league school, or an elite institution. So as someone who has gone to elite schools all his life, let me educate you without having to fabricate numbers. Number 1, the amount of students of color that are accepted into any school with lower test scores will rarely off legacy admits. Second, most students at elite universities come from affluent families and have had the opportunity to go to the best schools their entire lives. Every school I've ever gone to these kids assumed I was as rich as them and said shyt like, "only people like us can afford this." I'm talking about Exeter, Horace Mann, shyt like. High schools with 30,000 a year tuition that are meant to breed ivy-leaguers. That is why when US News and World Report rates and ranks the top public high schools it takes into account the demographics of a school. It rates more highly a public school with a diverse socioeconomic population that produces a median 1750 SAT score than a school with an incredibly affluent and homogeneous population that has a median of 1950.

You use this "unfair" nonsense when most elite schools have a holistic process and I went to schools where white kids from poor farms got in that I was basically teaching how to write essays because they were friends. Universities recognize that society has dealt people different hands and they try to create an environment that reflects than and to some degree, they attempt to correct for that by giving individuals from different backgrounds the elevated prestige and social marking of an elite education. You're idea is of a pure meritocracy where test scores determine who goes where, but they assume that those scores are an accurate barometer of potential and that we should ignore the initial inequality in the first place. AA isn't a problem, but it should be based on socioeconomic status more than race. Historically the biggest benefactors of AA are white women, but it's easier to pick at race I suppose. Always has been.

Its no longer needed, and really does more harm than good at this point.

How is it not needed, when we live in a country where your socioeconomic status determines your level educational attainment more often than not, and where people of color struggle to find interviews. How is it not needed when there are actual experiments that show the impact of race on everything from hiring to salary. We literally did experiments in undergrad when I gave my boy (who is white) my credentials and had him apply for jobs and he got a bunch of callbacks and responses. I did the same thing and got half, even less when self-identified as black. People who say stuff like this really must not pay attention to all the nepotism that goes on in regards to hiring in fire departments, police stations, and various other avenues of society. Sometimes it's just unconscious bias and people preferring those like them.

I say this as someone who applied to college without marking off my race as part of the first class accepted into my school after its AA policies had been struck down.

 

[rapbeats]

If someone conclusively shows that people with the same qualifications are routinely discriminated by employers due to race and gender, I'm all for it.

I'm not for choosing someone of a different race or gender to fill quotas if the applicants are sub-par candidates when compared to others.

then i'll ask you this simple question.

IF you and i were racing for $100,000 using the same car(i wasnt a good driver when i first started, but it doesnt matter i beat most people that dont look like me because i always get a 10 car headstart.)
Now you are only a so so driver yourself but you always lose against guys like me because you always start 10 cars back.
the race is only for a quarter mile.

would you agree, in order for you to have a FAIR chance vs me, you would need to have your car placed into a position right next to mine? which means your car needs to be moved 10 car lengths ahead of its current position.

IF you agree with moving your car 10 care lengths up to be fair. then you agree with Affirmative Action. at least in how it SHOULD BE used.

 

[superunknown23]

So we should kill all the whites?

 

[theworldismine13]

How is it not needed, when we live in a country where your socioeconomic status determines your level educational attainment more often than not, and where people of color struggle to find interviews. How is it not needed when there are actual experiments that show the impact of race on everything from hiring to salary. We literally did experiments in undergrad when I gave my boy (who is white) my credentials and had him apply for jobs and he got a bunch of callbacks and responses. I did the same thing and got half, even less when self-identified as black. People who say stuff like this really must not pay attention to all the nepotism that goes on in regards to hiring in fire departments, police stations, and various other avenues of society. Sometimes it's just unconscious bias and people preferring those like them.

I say this as someone who applied to college without marking off my race as part of the first class accepted into my school after its AA policies had been struck down.

that's a fine case that discrimination exists, but its not a case that AA is the right strategy, i think you are falling into a trap of just following whatever idea comes along, AA has been around for 30 years, i think its time to analyze AA not on the basis of whether discrimination exists but in the basis of is it actually a good strategy, in the end i dont think it is, its to obtuse, its to beneficial to non african americans and its very costly politically both in terms of national politics and office politics

i think black people support AA the same reason why white liberals do, they/we have basically have run out of ideas and dont know what the fuk to do

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

I think it's one of the worst things that ever happened to black people.

Our freedom isn't real because we didn't take it. Civil Rights movement was bullshyt because we sold out. And it destroyed our sense of community. Instead of building our own, we were allowed to assimilate which killed our ambition.

Affirmative action serves as a crutch. They say as a black man you have to work twice as hard to get half as far. Well I say work 8 times as hard and get twice as far ahead. But affirmative action says, you don't have to strive as much and we'll give you the hookup. And the best way to handicap a person is to do everything for them.

 

[rapbeats]

I think it's one of the worst things that ever happened to black people.

Our freedom isn't real because we didn't take it. Civil Rights movement was bullshyt because we sold out. And it destroyed our sense of community. Instead of building our own, we were allowed to assimilate which killed our ambition.

Affirmative action serves as a crutch. They say as a black man you have to work twice as hard to get half as far. Well I say work 8 times as hard and get twice as far ahead. But affirmative action says, you don't have to strive as much and we'll give you the hookup. And the best way to handicap a person is to do everything for them.

AND YOU WOULD BE WRONG.

you come from that mind state that "i grew up in the hood" therefore you you are TOUGH. which means if you didnt grow up in the hood, you wouldnt be tough.

i'll say this. if you didnt grow up in the hood. you wouldnt NEED to be TOUGH.

let that marinate for a moment.

If i didnt grow up where i was treated like a 2nd class citizen. i wouldnt NEED to work 10 times as hard to get an 8th of what my white counterpart gets.

if you want to continue to work extra hard to get nothing. you work harder, while the rest of us work smarter. thats your choice.

the truth is. AA used like its supposed to be used. can work well. but it will take generations.

i mean it took us generations to get to this point did it not?

you need AA at every level from the job's level to the college level, to the high school, middle school, elementary school levels.

the adults reaping the benefits of AA will not make AA look like its the best choice. but the elementary school kids going thru TRUE AA would actually pay HUUUGE dividends once these kids become adults in their late 20's.

 

[No1]

that's a fine case that discrimination exists, but its not a case that AA is the right strategy, i think you are falling into a trap of just following whatever idea comes along, AA has been around for 30 years, i think its time to analyze AA not on the basis of whether discrimination exists but in the basis of is it actually a good strategy, in the end i dont think it is, its to obtuse, its to beneficial to non african americans and its very costly politically both in terms of national politics and office politics

i think black people support AA the same reason why white liberals do, they/we have basically have run out of ideas and dont know what the fuk to do

It has nothing to do with running out of ideas, and you haven't suggested any ideas. All you have said is we need to look at whether or not it's costly in broad terms without any reasoning or basis to support it. We aren't even discussing other ideas right now, we were strictly discussing the merits of affirmative action. AA is necessary until we solve all the structural problems which will take a generation and which we have made no traction on doing. No one said it was a panacea. Most places don't even practice affirmative action or care about race at all. The fact that it's this big thing is nonsense. I also don't understand why it would be a bad thing that is also benefits non-blacks. I said use it based on socioeconomic status, and if that helps poor white kids as well then so be it.

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

AND YOU WOULD BE WRONG.

you come from that mind state that "i grew up in the hood" therefore you you are TOUGH. which means if you didnt grow up in the hood, you wouldnt be tough.

i'll say this. if you didnt grow up in the hood. you wouldnt NEED to be TOUGH.

let that marinate for a moment.

If i didnt grow up where i was treated like a 2nd class citizen. i wouldnt NEED to work 10 times as hard to get an 8th of what my white counterpart gets.

if you want to continue to work extra hard to get nothing. you work harder, while the rest of us work smarter. thats your choice.

the truth is. AA used like its supposed to be used. can work well. but it will take generations.

i mean it took us generations to get to this point did it not?

you need AA at every level from the job's level to the college level, to the high school, middle school, elementary school levels.

the adults reaping the benefits of AA will not make AA look like its the best choice. but the elementary school kids going thru TRUE AA would actually pay HUUUGE dividends once these kids become adults in their late 20's.

No we don't need that at all. We need to build our own shyt.





But why build our own shyt when we can be so fortunate to have access to others?




Imagine a rabid dog chasing you. He's coming to rip your limbs from your body one by one. You toss a fat ass steak at him and he stops to and it gives you time to escape.

That's what happened. Black folks are that rabid dog. We were coming for ours... but then we got tossed that piece of meat so we're "satisfied".

Back in the day when CVS wouldn't hire us we opened our own pharmacies which would be a huge staple in the community. But now, because of c00n shyt like AA we can just work in the back of CVS and be forgotten. And not only supporting, literally working for the very company that would be taking money out of our community.





But hey, at least we got "good jobs" and shyt.

 

[theworldismine13]

It has nothing to do with running out of ideas, and you haven't suggested any ideas. All you have said is we need to look at whether or not it's costly in broad terms without any reasoning or basis to support it. We aren't even discussing other ideas right now, we were strictly discussing the merits of affirmative action. AA is necessary until we solve all the structural problems which will take a generation and which we have made no traction on doing. No one said it was a panacea. Most places don't even practice affirmative action or care about race at all. The fact that it's this big thing is nonsense. I also don't understand why it would be a bad thing that is also benefits non-blacks. I said use it based on socioeconomic status, and if that helps poor white kids as well then so be it.

"until we solve the structural problems" im looking into cyrogenics so wake me up when that happens, i think it very much has to do with running out of ideas becuase its very obvious that AA is not the key to black development but its something black and white politicians can fight for and look like they are fighting for black people

there is no evidence that AA is necessary, in places where they got rid of affirmative action the impact has been a wash and even now its not widely used

no one said its a panacea but it is being defended as if it is, as if its somehow the answer to economic development and that if you eliminate it supposedly it will devastate the black community, which is a lie

the reason why its a big deal if non black people benefit, is that its black people that bear the political cost of it, why are black people in the front lines when we dont get most of the benefit?

i dont have a problem with using it as socioeconomic status, i actually dont have a philosophical problem with race being used but either way its not the key to black development so im fine if there is no AA at all period also, my beef with AA is because of my cost benefit analysis of it, i just dont think its worth preserving

my ideas as ive said many times is academic culture, i think that is the root of black problems, the structural problem that we need to address is the structure of the public school system in black communities

 

[rapbeats]

No we don't need that at all. We need to build our own shyt.





But why build our own shyt when we can be so fortunate to have access to others?




Imagine a rabid dog chasing you. He's coming to rip your limbs from your body one by one. You toss a fat ass steak at him and he stops to and it gives you time to escape.

That's what happened. Black folks are that rabid dog. We were coming for ours... but then we got tossed that piece of meat so we're "satisfied".

Back in the day when CVS wouldn't hire us we opened our own pharmacies which would be a huge staple in the community. But now, because of c00n shyt like AA we can just work in the back of CVS and be forgotten. And not only supporting, literally working for the very company that would be taking money out of our community.





But hey, at least we got "good jobs" and shyt.

go ask some youngin in the streets is he satisfied.

thats how you know your theory is incorrect.

we're not satisfied at all. we're so Sick and tired of overworking for less results to the point some of us have checked out.

 

[rapbeats]

"until we solve the structural problems" im looking into cyrogenics so wake me up when that happens, i think it very much has to do with running out of ideas becuase its very obvious that AA is not the key to black development but its something black and white politicians can fight for and look like they are fighting for black people

there is no evidence that AA is necessary, in places where they got rid of affirmative action the impact has been a wash and even now its not widely used

no one said its a panacea but it is being defended as if it is, as if its somehow the answer to economic development and that if you eliminate it supposedly it will devastate the black community, which is a lie

the reason why its a big deal if non black people benefit, is that its black people that bear the political cost of it, why are black people in the front lines when we dont get most of the benefit?

i dont have a problem with using it as socioeconomic status, i actually dont have a philosophical problem with race being used but either way its not the key to black development so im fine if there is no AA at all period also, my beef with AA is because of my cost benefit analysis of it, i just dont think its worth preserving

my ideas as ive said many times is academic culture, i think that is the root of black problems, the structural problem that we need to address is the structure of the public school system in black communities

again why argue about what AA has done for us when we know good and well AA was never setup properly nor was it instituted properly to begin with. if it was, there would be different outcomes.

 

[Robert California]

It sux
Man these white kids would be on campus every year selling "Affirmative Action Cookies", trying to prove a point and sh!t
they'd have legit signs and sh!t with prices broken down by race.
White: $2.99
Black: $1.99
or even FREE, or some sh!t like that.
I used to be but that was me being immature.
TIL-that AA actually helps white women more than it does Blacks.
I'll have to make some White privilege cookies tho

Blacks: Pay Now
Cas: IOU's are ok, we know ya'll are good for it

 

[88m3]

I just don't feel that anyone could look me in the face and tell me the world wouldn't be better off without white people.

 

[theworldismine13]

again why argue about what AA has done for us when we know good and well AA was never setup properly nor was it instituted properly to begin with. if it was, there would be different outcomes.

no white person is ever going to set up AA "properly"

AA is a program invented by white people to give black people some crumbs, it has accomplished that, we have received the crumbs

im just saying its time to move on and that we need to develop new ideas, not push ideas that were invented 40 years ago by white people