Hip Hop Outkast or Mobb Deep...who was the better duo?

[Poitier]

ppl really takin the music dre n big boi made over n the music hav n p made

fatherless generation, breh

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

Top tier of '95-'99:

hold up.
since when are '95 & '99 apart of the same era?
youre all over the place.

LOL. What does you being a fan of No Limit have to do with anything? I was merely stating the fact that artists didn't have to have mainstream singles to go platinum in the 90's. Dude was saying it was a reason why Mobb Deep's Hell On Earth and Infamous weren't platinum.

To say Rakim wasn't relevant in '97 is laughable. Was he huge in '97? No, but he wasn't some MC that nobody discussed anymore.

As far as "Triumph", I'm talking about the song itself. What makes that song any more mainstream that what Mobb Deep were putting out at the time?

Juvenile Hell was released in '93 during ATCQ's prime. You said they weren't a part of that era, which is false. It does hurt any argument that Mobb Deep was a group that was in the tier, echelon, class or whatever you want to call it with Wu Tang, Bone Thugs N Harmony and ATCQ. Those are groups whose debuts made an impact and in that regard Kast is also over Mobb. Mobb was a non-factor until "Shook Ones Pt. 2" dropped in '95 even though they debuted in '93.

you were claiming that I made excuses. that's why I made that no limit comment.

what were these wutang albums that went platinum without a mainstream single?

triumph was mainstream in the sense that the premier of the video was made into an even by the most mainstream of music media outlets. its not all the music itself dog. you should know that by now. and why are you so hung up on sales anyway?

relevant was a poor word. my bad. I was rushing out. but we done had this argument everyday this week, so go back and use the terms I already put on him for '97. the bottom line is, rakim in '97 wasn't a factor.

that mobb deep debut was borderline underground. and I still don't understand your point. are you trying to say that theyre from the same era as tribe because they both released albums in '93? and for the record, tribe's popularity was already on the decline at that point.

 

[JustCKing]

hold up.
since when are '95 & '99 apart of the same era?
youre all over the place.



you were claiming that I made excuses. that's why I made that no limit comment.

what were these wutang albums that went platinum without a mainstream single?

triumph was mainstream in the sense that the premier of the video was made into an even by the most mainstream of music media outlets. its not all the music itself dog. you should know that by now. and why are you so hung up on sales anyway?

relevant was a poor word. my bad. I was rushing out. but we done had this argument everyday this week, so go back and use the terms I already put on him for '97. the bottom line is, rakim in '97 wasn't a factor.

that mobb deep debut was borderline underground. and I still don't understand your point. are you trying to say that theyre from the same era as tribe because they both released albums in '93? and for the record, tribe's popularity was already on the decline at that point.

For starters there's a dash between '95 and '99. Secondly, I'm not the one who started the whole '95-'99 thing. I don't know even know why you're following an argument that you weren't even a part of.

I claimed you were making excuses, because you were coming up with reasons why the albums sold and that wasn't the point.

Every Wu Tang album that ever went platinum hit platinum without a mainstream single. I'm talking about the songs themselves and not the promo, marketing, etc. behind it. Of course it was an event, it was a Wu Tang single from their first group album in years. Again, you're entering an argument that didn't include you. I wasn't the one who brought up sales. The person in the argument stated that albums weren't going platinum without a mainstream single.

LOL. You were the one that said he wasn't relevant. Rakim was a factor in '97. He may not have been anything to you, but Rakim was still a factor in Hip Hop in '97. We wouldn't even be having this argument if you hadn't inserted yourself into something that really didn't concern you. You've exhausted all this effort into a discussion where half of the subject is a group you don't care that much for.

That Mobb Deep debut was no more underground than what was out at the time. The parent label that it dropped on was a major label. Also add to the fact that 4th & Broadway had successful Hip Hop acts. You're making it like I listed something they dropped as Poetical Prophets. No, Mobb Deep was on a major label at the time. They dropped an album on a major that went under the radar. Tribe dropped Midnight Marauders in '93, which is possibly their most celebrated album.

 

[Illeye buckmatic]

 

[Eternal Tecate]

I think they're on the same level and it just comes down to preference/mood.

Did anyone come in with the "Kast wasn't poppin in the 90s like that" narrative yet?

 

[Eternal Tecate]

Mobb Deep are overrated. I listened to the Infamous first time last year to see what all the fuss was about and in what sense was this a "classic"

I swear to God I had to skip half of the tracks. Wasnt feeling it at all apart from a couple of tracks like Shook Ones and Survival of the fittest.

 

[Eternal Tecate]

and yet "Soul Food" is better than any Kast album

 

[Eternal Tecate]

prime 3 stacks would rap circles around prime prodigy

and havoc def aint hanging with big boi

Prime 3 stacks would rap circles around anybody not named Nas Olu Dara

 

[Youngblood Priest]

Man, u nikkaz r delirious. Kast is the better group. Has the better catalog, and its the truth. Dre would rap circles around both them midgets by himself. GTFOH!!!!!!!!

 

[Plexxx]

ppl really takin the music dre n big boi made over n the music hav n p made

because its better music. not the same thing every album but getting worse each time like mobb deep


and i like MD. they just are not better than Kast

 

[Don Mack]

I don't respect thug rappers that get slapped in real life

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

For starters there's a dash between '95 and '99. Secondly, I'm not the one who started the whole '95-'99 thing. I don't know even know why you're following an argument that you weren't even a part of.

I claimed you were making excuses, because you were coming up with reasons why the albums sold and that wasn't the point.

Every Wu Tang album that ever went platinum hit platinum without a mainstream single. I'm talking about the songs themselves and not the promo, marketing, etc. behind it. Of course it was an event, it was a Wu Tang single from their first group album in years. Again, you're entering an argument that didn't include you. I wasn't the one who brought up sales. The person in the argument stated that albums weren't going platinum without a mainstream single.

LOL. You were the one that said he wasn't relevant. Rakim was a factor in '97. He may not have been anything to you, but Rakim was still a factor in Hip Hop in '97. We wouldn't even be having this argument if you hadn't inserted yourself into something that really didn't concern you. You've exhausted all this effort into a discussion where half of the subject is a group you don't care that much for.

That Mobb Deep debut was no more underground than what was out at the time. The parent label that it dropped on was a major label. Also add to the fact that 4th & Broadway had successful Hip Hop acts. You're making it like I listed something they dropped as Poetical Prophets. No, Mobb Deep was on a major label at the time. They dropped an album on a major that went under the radar. Tribe dropped Midnight Marauders in '93, which is possibly their most celebrated album.

an argument that im not apart of? Im the one that started that argument. the one that put the battery in your back for you to try to use the word "tier". secondly, as long as you continue to interject yourself in anything hip-hop related PERIOD, I can interject myself into any side-convo.

lol. so method man and ol d b didn't have mainstream singles now? okay buddy. and as far as triumph goes, it was built up as an event before it dropped. not just because it was wutang, but mostly thanks to the media. that's as mainstream as it gets. you can try to narrow things down to specifics all you want, but all youre doing is living in a fantasy world.

rakim was not a factor in '97. and its not about what I think personally, because personally I was bumpin 18th letter in '97(well '98 rather). or maybe you just don't know what being a factor actually means?

again I ask, whats your point dwelling on mobb deep's 1st album? youre making absolutely no point. and everytime I ask you, you dodge the question.

and I don't remember the parent company. 4th & broadway wasn't exactly a major, and they certainly weren't a group that was aiming for the thrown at the time. they was just some lil young niccas with a video on the box. almost in the same vein as groups like da youngstas.

midnight marauders is not tribe's most celebrated album. and again, whats your point? state your claim b. I asked you like 10 times already.

 

[JustCKing]

an argument that im not apart of? Im the one that started that argument. the one that put the battery in your back for you to try to use the word "tier". secondly, as long as you continue to interject yourself in anything hip-hop related PERIOD, I can interject myself into any side-convo.

lol. so method man and ol d b didn't have mainstream singles now? okay buddy. and as far as triumph goes, it was built up as an event before it dropped. not just because it was wutang, but mostly thanks to the media. that's as mainstream as it gets. you can try to narrow things down to specifics all you want, but all youre doing is living in a fantasy world.

rakim was not a factor in '97. and its not about what I think personally, because personally I was bumpin 18th letter in '97(well '98 rather). or maybe you just don't know what being a factor actually means?

again I ask, whats your point dwelling on mobb deep's 1st album? youre making absolutely no point. and everytime I ask you, you dodge the question.

and I don't remember the parent company. 4th & broadway wasn't exactly a major, and they certainly weren't a group that was aiming for the thrown at the time. they was just some lil young niccas with a video on the box. almost in the same vein as groups like da youngstas.

midnight marauders is not tribe's most celebrated album. and again, whats your point? state your claim b. I asked you like 10 times already.

You aren't the one that started the argument in regard to mainstream singles. I'm sure that was someone else. My point wasn't you injecting yourself into the argument. It's that you injecting yourself and started going off on a tangent.

I'm talking Wu Tang Clan as a group. See this is what I mean. It doesn't matter about the hype. I still want to know how Wu's singles were more mainstream than Mobb. Didn't both groups make grimey music? Miss me with that fantasy world garbage, because that pretty much describes anyone that thinks the Lost Boyz and OutKast were on the same plateau in the 90's.

In regard to Rakim, maybe you just won't acknowledge that Rakim was a factor for the sake of argument. Anyway, my point with Rakim is that he was held in higher regard as a lyricist during that period. It's to say that Nas isn't as relevant as Kendrick or Drake, but many still hold Nas to a higher regard as a lyricist.

4th & Broadway was major enough to release Eric B. & Rakim's Paid In Full. People know the iconic songs from that album and it's the album that pretty much made Ra the revered lyricist that he is. That's one of the most widely respected albums in Hip Hop period. Here you go with the excuses saying they weren't aiming for the throne. Who cares? It was still their debut album. Then you further prove my point by reducing them to "lil young niccas with a video on the box" in comparison to groups like Kast, Wu, Bone, ATCQ, etc. who were making major waves with their debuts.

Midnight Marauders is my rebuttal to your claim that ATCQ was on the way out of the door by '93. You're really going to claim that that album isn't possibly their most celebrated.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

You aren't the one that started the argument in regard to mainstream singles. I'm sure that was someone else. My point wasn't you injecting yourself into the argument. It's that you injecting yourself and started going off on a tangent.

I'm talking Wu Tang Clan as a group. See this is what I mean. It doesn't matter about the hype. I still want to know how Wu's singles were more mainstream than Mobb. Didn't both groups make grimey music? Miss me with that fantasy world garbage, because that pretty much describes anyone that thinks the Lost Boyz and OutKast were on the same plateau in the 90's.

In regard to Rakim, maybe you just won't acknowledge that Rakim was a factor for the sake of argument. Anyway, my point with Rakim is that he was held in higher regard as a lyricist during that period. It's to say that Nas isn't as relevant as Kendrick or Drake, but many still hold Nas to a higher regard as a lyricist.

4th & Broadway was major enough to release Eric B. & Rakim's Paid In Full. People know the iconic songs from that album and it's the album that pretty much made Ra the revered lyricist that he is. That's one of the most widely respected albums in Hip Hop period. Here you go with the excuses saying they weren't aiming for the throne. Who cares? It was still their debut album. Then you further prove my point by reducing them to "lil young niccas with a video on the box" in comparison to groups like Kast, Wu, Bone, ATCQ, etc. who were making major waves with their debuts.

Midnight Marauders is my rebuttal to your claim that ATCQ was on the way out of the door by '93. You're really going to claim that that album isn't possibly their most celebrated.

I CLEARLY said that I started the TIER argument. I don't know if youre mixing my words on purpose or playing dumb.

also, I never said ATCQ was on their way out the door in '93. youre mixing and meshing different post regarding different timeframes.

and no, it wasn't their most celebrated album. they weren't as popular or impactful as they were when they dropped their 1st 2 joints. i'll take it over their 1st joint ANYDAY but its not about me.

wutang as a group AND solo had a mainstream single for every platinum album. even if you want to be in a technical fantasy land where success is based strictly off of music, and don't want to acknowledge the media hype surrounding triumph before it even dropped, then you still have to deal with "reunited" being on the radio - which ive mentioned multiple times already. AND LIKE DUDE ALREADY TOLD YOU, mob deep made grimier music.

horrible analogy with nas/Kendrick/drake. Kendrick & drake aren't held in high regard by the core audience or the streets. that's actually why people like nas are allowed to stay semi-relevant because none of the real dangerous emcess are being put on. rakim didn't have that luxury. all due respect to rakim as a lyricist in '97. IMO, he was still amongst the best, but I know nobody was really talking about rakim on THAT level or comparing him to the elites at the time. he was one of the many old schoolers getting one last run during that timeframe and it was appreciated, but youre trying to take it to another level. hell, EPMD's comeback that year made more noise.

paid in full dropped in '87. I guess landspeed was a major player in '93 too right? but later for all that, how does this album not making major waves fuel your point? this is my 200th time asking you.

yes, in the mid '90s, lost boyz and outkast were indeed on the same plateau. 2nd tier. lost boyz eventually dropped off tho.

 

[JustCKing]

I CLEARLY said that I started the TIER argument. I don't know if youre mixing my words on purpose or playing dumb.

also, I never said ATCQ was on their way out the door in '93. youre mixing and meshing different post regarding different timeframes.

and no, it wasn't their most celebrated album. they weren't as popular or impactful as they were when they dropped their 1st 2 joints. i'll take it over their 1st joint ANYDAY but its not about me.

wutang as a group AND solo had a mainstream single for every platinum album. even if you want to be in a technical fantasy land where success is based strictly off of music, and don't want to acknowledge the media hype surrounding triumph before it even dropped, then you still have to deal with "reunited" being on the radio - which ive mentioned multiple times already. AND LIKE DUDE ALREADY TOLD YOU, mob deep made grimier music.

horrible analogy with nas/Kendrick/drake. Kendrick & drake aren't held in high regard by the core audience or the streets. that's actually why people like nas are allowed to stay semi-relevant because none of the real dangerous emcess are being put on. rakim didn't have that luxury. all due respect to rakim as a lyricist in '97. IMO, he was still amongst the best, but I know nobody was really talking about rakim on THAT level or comparing him to the elites at the time. he was one of the many old schoolers getting one last run during that timeframe and it was appreciated, but youre trying to take it to another level. hell, EPMD's comeback that year made more noise.

paid in full dropped in '87. I guess landspeed was a major player in '93 too right? but later for all that, how does this album not making major waves fuel your point? this is my 200th time asking you.

yes, in the mid '90s, lost boyz and outkast were indeed on the same plateau. 2nd tier. lost boyz eventually dropped off tho.

I wasn't referencing the argument you started. I'm talking about you jumping into the whole "artists needed a mainstream single to go platinum" argument.

You're saying they weren't as popular when Midnight is one of their biggest albums. They were still a huge deal in 93-94. That album is considered one of the best produced albums in the genre, yet its not celebrated according to you

Outside of "Baby I Got Your Money" and the remix of "All I Need" what other Wu singles were really mainstream? By your logic any song getting airplay on major stations is mainstream which imcludes Mobb's singles.

Regarding the whole Kendrick/Drake/Nas comparison, it definitely stands because comparisons are drawn between them and Nas and Jay. They are held in that regard by this generation. They same way Nas and his generation of MC drew comparisons to Ra, though it was different eras. If you agree with Ra being amongst the best the rest is irrelebant. You're arguing for the sake of arguing.

My point is that Juvenile Hell was a non factor that even Mobb fans don't acknowledge. You can't say the same about other elite groups at the time.

In the mid 90's Kast and LB had 2 albums a piece. LB's 95/96 album is slept on outside of "Renee" and "Jeeps, Bimaz, and Benzes". The same doesn' t hold true for Kast who had 2 huge albums and soundtrack songs that wrre big at the time.