Hip Hop Outkast or Mobb Deep...who was the better duo?

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

I understand if you don't won't me to son you again as usual

if that's what you want to think, then be my guest.

whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

edit: lol @ you posting twice. begging for attention.

 

[JustCKing]

1. I think what bul is trying to say is that foxy brown was a household name, in urban America at least. I don't think he meant "pop" in the same sellout vein as nicki minaj.

2. ehh. no limit was a different animal. they had a system and it worked. comparing a lot of them(not all) to mobb deep is like comparing the stats of someone who plays for mike d'antoni to that of someone who plays for lionel hollins. and the ones who weren't system guys, were multi-platinum stars(master p, silkk, mystikal, snoop, etc)

as for wutang, theyre not proof of anything. CREAM was an ideal hit single for '94 actually. and 2 singles before that, they had the "method man" video, which didn't exactly burn up daytime radio but it was a BOX classic and the kids ate it up. it was probably the most sung-along single by kids at the time aside from snoop's videos. not to mention that wutang had a great gimmick, logo, etc. very slick marketing. outside of wutang using raw beats, theres really no comparison to what mobb deep was doing. mobb deep wasn't geared towards being marketable at all.

3. please do us all at least 1 favor and let the rakim & tier arguments go. its starting to not be funny anymore. youre scaring me at this point, actually.



dog. you keep trying to force an argument that nobody cares about. I was just trying to brush you off and keep it movin.

but please, don't let static stop you. if you insist, go head on and list all the outkast influences & samples you can conjure up, and it still wont be anywhere close to the most influential groups.

if you think it is, then you probably are working with a short-list of groups and have an overall lack of knowledge of the genre. I never said that kast wasn't influential or sampled. Its just not on the level that youre trying to make it out to be in comparison to a lot of the other/greater groups.



the keyword is WERE. clearly I was strictly speaking on that era.

excuses for what? either way, it doesn't hurt my argument seeing that kast wasn't even top-tier for THAT era. so what do I have to make excuses for?

lol @ the last sentence. you still don't know what a tier is. just leave it alone man. PLEASE.



I wouldn't put mobb nor tribe in the all-time top tier bracket actually.

bottom line is, tribe & mobb deep were clearly top-tier for their respective eras.

1. Being a household name =/= as what Nicki Minaj is. It clearly wasn't the same comparison. It has nothing to do with type of music that was made, Nicki's clearly (or at least was) beyond Urban popularity.

2. Did not Wu Tang and No Limit have platinum albums without having a mainstream single? He said that artists had to have a mainstream single to go platinum as an excuse as to why Mobb's Infamous and Hell On Earth weren't platinum and that "Quiet Storm" was their mainstream hit. That's not the case. In the 90's several acts were going platinum without having a "mainstream" hit. Even discounting "C.R.E.A.M." or any other single from 36 Chambers, they still had singles like "Triumph" which was still not "mainstream" especially not during the Diddy dominated Shiny Suit era.

3. If it's bothering you that much, why respond.


It's laughable to say that ATCQ and Mobb Deep were from different eras. Mobb debuted in '93 with Juvenile Hell. That album made no impact whatsoever. It's the same year that ATCQ came out with Midnight Marauders. Infamous is the album in which Mobb made an impact. People aren't even counting their debut. Why? Because it was a non-factor, yet they are being billed as some top-tier group.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

1. Being a household name =/= as what Nicki Minaj is. It clearly wasn't the same comparison. It has nothing to do with type of music that was made, Nicki's clearly (or at least was) beyond Urban popularity.

2. Did not Wu Tang and No Limit have platinum albums without having a mainstream single? He said that artists had to have a mainstream single to go platinum as an excuse as to why Mobb's Infamous and Hell On Earth weren't platinum and that "Quiet Storm" was their mainstream hit. That's not the case. In the 90's several acts were going platinum without having a "mainstream" hit. Even discounting "C.R.E.A.M." or any other single from 36 Chambers, they still had singles like "Triumph" which was still not "mainstream" especially not during the Diddy dominated Shiny Suit era.

3. If it's bothering you that much, why respond.


It's laughable to say that ATCQ and Mobb Deep were from different eras. Mobb debuted in '93 with Juvenile Hell. That album made no impact whatsoever. It's the same year that ATCQ came out with Midnight Marauders. Infamous is the album in which Mobb made an impact. People aren't even counting their debut. Why? Because it was a non-factor, yet they are being billed as some top-tier group.

1. surely you get the point tho, right?

2. every no limit & wutang album that hit the platinum mark had some sort of mainstream single except mystikal's 1st no limit joint, and ice cream man, but ice cream man had all the makings of a mainstream single. just no machine behind it. and mystikal was all over those no limit albums. I cant think of anybody else that went plat over there without a big hit. did c-murder ever go plat? as for wutang, everything that went plat in that camp had a mainstream hit. triumph was pretty mainstream. the debut of that song & video was made out to be an event. big money behind it and a super-expensive video. plus "reunited" was on the radio as well with tekitha on the hook. the shiny suit era is overblown in hindsight, btw.

3. because its ridiculous.

4. juvenile hell? really b?

 

[BrothaZay]

I like Mobb Deep more.

 

[JustCKing]

1. surely you get the point tho, right?

2. every no limit & wutang album that hit the platinum mark had some sort of mainstream single except mystikal's 1st no limit joint, and ice cream man, but ice cream man had all the makings of a mainstream single. just no machine behind it. and mystikal was all over those no limit albums. I cant think of anybody else that went plat over there without a big hit. did c-murder ever go plat? as for wutang, everything that went plat in that camp had a mainstream hit. triumph was pretty mainstream. the debut of that song & video was made out to be an event. big money behind it and a super-expensive video. plus "reunited" was on the radio as well with tekitha on the hook. the shiny suit era is overblown in hindsight, btw.

3. because its ridiculous.

4. juvenile hell? really b?

1. What's there really to get? Foxy Brown wasn't a Pop rap artist in the sense that Nicki was/is.

2. Again excuses. Did or didn't those albums reach platinum without a mainstream single? And yes, C-Murder's Life or Death is platinum. What makes "Triumph" any more mainstream than the singles that Mobb Deep had out? Of course the song and video were going to be an event, it was a single for the first Wu Tang group album in four years. These are RZA's own words regarding "Triumph": ".radio and video stations was telling me it was too long" and "We got a 6 minute song on the radio... 6 minutes man, that's serious, its unheard of.. ...a 6 minute video..".

3. It's only ridiculous, because as usual you don't have an argument.

4. Isn't Juvenile Hell Mobb Deep's first album? Many of their fans may not count and surely for the sake of hurting their 90's run, people trying to make it like they were bigger than Kast will avoid it.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

1. What's there really to get? Foxy Brown wasn't a Pop rap artist in the sense that Nicki was/is.

2. Again excuses. Did or didn't those albums reach platinum without a mainstream single? And yes, C-Murder's Life or Death is platinum. What makes "Triumph" any more mainstream than the singles that Mobb Deep had out? Of course the song and video were going to be an event, it was a single for the first Wu Tang group album in four years. These are RZA's own words regarding "Triumph": ".radio and video stations was telling me it was too long" and "We got a 6 minute song on the radio... 6 minutes man, that's serious, its unheard of.. ...a 6 minute video..".

3. It's only ridiculous, because as usual you don't have an argument.

4. Isn't Juvenile Hell Mobb Deep's first album? Many of their fans may not count and surely for the sake of hurting their 90's run, people trying to make it like they were bigger than Kast will avoid it.

1. nevermind man.

2. who am I making excuses for? no limit are the only ones mentioned in this post that im a fan of.

as for triumph, there was a huge machine pushing that record. that's about as mainstream as it gets.

3. lol. everybody in this thread done told you that rakim wasn't really relevant in '97 and that your tier argument makes no sense.

4. what does that have to do with anything? im not saying that it doesn't count. it doesn't hurt anything neither. and again, whats your point? youre just pulling chit out of your a$$.

 

[JustCKing]

1. nevermind man.

2. who am I making excuses for? no limit are the only ones mentioned in this post that im a fan of.

as for triumph, there was a huge machine pushing that record. that's about as mainstream as it gets.

3. lol. everybody in this thread done told you that rakim wasn't really relevant in '97 and that your tier argument makes no sense.

4. what does that have to do with anything? im not saying that it doesn't count. it doesn't hurt anything neither. and again, whats your point? youre just pulling chit out of your a$$.

LOL. What does you being a fan of No Limit have to do with anything? I was merely stating the fact that artists didn't have to have mainstream singles to go platinum in the 90's. Dude was saying it was a reason why Mobb Deep's Hell On Earth and Infamous weren't platinum.

To say Rakim wasn't relevant in '97 is laughable. Was he huge in '97? No, but he wasn't some MC that nobody discussed anymore.

As far as "Triumph", I'm talking about the song itself. What makes that song any more mainstream that what Mobb Deep were putting out at the time?

Juvenile Hell was released in '93 during ATCQ's prime. You said they weren't a part of that era, which is false. It does hurt any argument that Mobb Deep was a group that was in the tier, echelon, class or whatever you want to call it with Wu Tang, Bone Thugs N Harmony and ATCQ. Those are groups whose debuts made an impact and in that regard Kast is also over Mobb. Mobb was a non-factor until "Shook Ones Pt. 2" dropped in '95 even though they debuted in '93.

 

[Plexxx]

outkast=GOAT duo

 

[mobbinfms]

Meant nobody sane believed the Mobb deep fairy tales, especially after P got slapped around by various washed up rappers such as Keith Murray, and put on that Summerjam screen.

No shyt. 99% of hip hop is bullshyt. So what?

 

[Yagirlcheatinonus]

Outkast really pushed the envelope creatively and put ATL on the map. Mobb Deep dropped classic Queens music. I have to go with Outkast though.

 

[mobbinfms]

Not having a solo album is relevant, unless it's his guest verses we're discussing here. Yes, Prodigy was great for three straight albums, but he wasn't top tier great. Who besides Mobb fans ranked Prodigy as an elite lyricist?

I mentioned Ra because he was still considered to be GOAT or at least Top 3 at the time. There's still people that believe Nas and Jay haven't surpassed him.



What makes the case for Pac weak? Cam and Sauce Money don't have a Reasonable Doubt to make a case to be elite lyricist. Jay's albums in the 90's AND his ghostwriting make him elite, not just his ghostwriting alone. We could go back and forth with individual verses all day. I've already acknowledged that Prodigy was great during that period, he just wasn't up to par with Nas, Biggie, Pac, or Jay. There's a reason why they are still mentioned as GOAT lyricists where Prodigy isn't. If Prodigy was a top tier lyricist in the 90's, the work would speak for itself and he'd still be in that class of MC today. Yes, he fell off, but people still rank several rappers from the 80's who fell off.





I never implied that there couldn't be two top tier groups. As I've posted already, how can you make a case for Mobb Deep being a top tier group when they aren't even the best from their own borough? Meaning that if a list of top tier groups were compiled and there were nine groups on the list not from Queens, Mobb Deep wouldn't be in the Top 10 because of ATCQ.

Ok. Who was in your top tier of elite emcees from 95-99? And where does Prodigy rank? You keep mentioning Jay, Nas, Pac and Big. If you've got Prodigy at 5 then we're kind of debating nothing. And Prodigy is still considered GOAT (or really a legend) off his 90s run.
You do u dear stand the concept of an era right? People tend to see Kendrick and Drake as the elite guys of the past few years, that doesn't have anything to do with an all time list.
The case you made was weak. Go back and objectively ask yourself if it compares to the cases you made for the others.
With Jay are you saying that with the release of RD he immediately was considered one of the best of that era?
Your tier argument is nonsensical.

 

[JustCKing]

Ok. Who was in your top tier of elite emcees from 95-99? And where does Prodigy rank? You keep mentioning Jay, Nas, Pac and Big. If you've got Prodigy at 5 then we're kind of debating nothing. And Prodigy is still considered GOAT (or really a legend) off his 90s run.
You do u dear stand the concept of an era right? People tend to see Kendrick and Drake as the elite guys of the past few years, that doesn't have anything to do with an all time list.
The case you made was weak. Go back and objectively ask yourself if it compares to the cases you made for the others.
With Jay are you saying that with the release of RD he immediately was considered one of the best of that era?
Your tier argument is nonsensical.

Top tier of '95-'99:

Nas
Biggie
Jay
Pac
Scarface
Ghost
AZ
Rae

off top.

I understand the concept of an era. No I'm not saying that Jay was immediately one of the best of that era, but RD started the buzz and throughout the period of '96-'99, Jay's status as a lyricist grew. Even though he "dumbed down" in '98, his lyrics and flow were still respected.

How is my tier argument nonsensical? By definition, a tier is

A rank or class

a row, rank, or layer of articles; especially : one of two or more rows, levels, or ranks arranged one above another

class, category

one of a series of rows or ranks rising one behind or above another, as of seats in an amphitheater, boxes in a theater, guns in a man-of-war, or oars in an ancient galley.

Again, by definition how is my tier argument nonsensical? As for top-tier, the definition is:

of the highest level or quality.

 

[mobbinfms]

no it cant, doesnt reach the heights of atliens and tracks like streets raised me, thug musik, and allowing nas to do a boys is mine remix over that scarface sample are just a few of a number of reasons. its certainly not a wack album, but nowhere near classic.

Both albums have their missteps. Atliens doesn't have a quiet storm though. Or a the Realest. Allustrious. If anything, MM has the higher heights.

 

[Illin Degenerate]

id have to disagree, tracks like babylon, elevators, growing old, millennium arent taking a backseat to anything off murda muzik. i love the realest and allustrious beats, but as overall songs eclipsing everything on atliens, no way.

 

[the cac mamba]

ppl really takin the music dre n big boi made over n the music hav n p made