Only 3% of Black students scored a 1200+ on the SAT

Kyle C. Barker

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This is a complete bullshyt. I got higher than this in the mid 90's (yes :flabbynsick:) before all this test prep nonsense. Either you know it or you don't. Stop making excuses. There is free test prep online if you think it makes that much of a difference. The fact of the matter is that we aren't taking our children's education seriously because we have internalized inferiority and are afraid of competition.


It's a weird stat ain't it? I was flirting with 1300 in the 90s as well ( :flabbynsick: ) and I've met plenty of black people in my college years that scored above me.

And no this ain't a humble brag. I scored somewhere in the low 900s on my PSAT with no real practice. I didn't take a course but I do remember taking a bunch of practice tests on the weekends for a good bit.
 

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What would you put in your top-5??


My top 6 off the top of my head would be poorer school infrastructure, less access to established and quality teachers and administrators, less educated parents, higher incidence of broken families, fewer social connections with peers and role models who could model successful behaviors and outcomes, and higher stress neighborhoods. Even for the parents who wanted more for their kids and wanted to do better, if they hadn't had a quality education themselves, didn't have social circles who could demonstrate what was possible to the kids and how to get there, didn't have a stable family for the child, and lived in a rough neighborhood with a shytty school and constant-turnover staff, all the good intentions and positive value for education in the world could only do so much. I knew plenty of parents who wanted more for their kids, and plenty of kids who wanted to do better, but just didn't have the tools to escape all those fukking traps.


The Black-White test gap, it's caused by so many factors that there's no one major bullet. That shouldn't mean apathy though. We should be working on every one of these things to improve but not expect that any single one of them is going to close the whole gap.
 

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Theres always an excuse. Whether it's asian, Hispanic or white, black kids are underperforming. That's inexcuseable but y'all always have excuses.


I've committed my entire adult life to this issue, studied it in both undergrad and grad school and built my career around it, and pointed out in every single comment that Black students underperforming is a serious problem.

Because it's a serious problem, we shouldn't address it with childish or ignorant analysis. The "model minority" narrative was literally created for the express purpose of demonizing Black kids and is full of holes. How about we try addressing the actual issues in the racial testing gap rather than rely on false narratives that can be torn apart so easily?
 

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My top 6 off the top of my head would be 1. poorer school infrastructure, 2. less access to established and quality teachers and administrators, 3. less educated parents, 4. higher incidence of broken families, 5. fewer social connections with peers and role models who could model successful behaviors and outcomes, 6. and higher stress neighborhoods. Even for the parents who wanted more for their kids and wanted to do better, if they hadn't had a quality education themselves, didn't have social circles who could demonstrate what was possible to the kids and how to get there, didn't have a stable family for the child, and lived in a rough neighborhood with a shytty school and constant-turnover staff, all the good intentions and positive value for education in the world could only do so much. I knew plenty of parents who wanted more for their kids, and plenty of kids who wanted to do better, but just didn't have the tools to escape all those fukking traps.


The Black-White test gap, it's caused by so many factors that there's no one major bullet. That shouldn't mean apathy though. We should be working on every one of these things to improve but not expect that any single one of them is going to close the whole gap.
:jbhmm::ehh:

I appreciate this answer.

Me being optimistic, I'd say we as parents can control 3, 4 and 5.

Really all 6 are fixable, but not as immediate as the 3, 4 and 5.
 

ExodusNirvana

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I scored a 1270 when I was in HS but my grades were aiiiiiight so I got into some decent schools

Black parents (like mine) need to get these little motherfukkers up at the crack of dawn on a Saturday and send them to small session SAT Prep

They can do whatever they want from the afternoon on, but I used to have to wake up at the crack of dawn to go ALLLLLLL the way up to City College on the weekends to do SAT Prep

That shyt sucked but a few of my friends were going too so it wasn't too bad

The parents need to take an active role in their kids education...it is what it is
 

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:francis:y'all are so ready to shyt on Black Children and their parents, & completely absolve the conditions these people have to face inside/outside the classroom. Also, stop blaming the culture, there is no singular culture. I know black communities who support academic achievements, and never been in any who don't.
 

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:jbhmm::ehh:

I appreciate this answer.

Me being optimistic, I'd say we as parents can control 3, 4 and 5.

Really all 6 are fixable, but not as immediate as the 3, 4 and 5.


3 is pretty hard if you're struggling in the grind. If you yourself are uneducated, and you have to work your ass off to keep your family afloat, it's not easy to turn yourself into an educated person. Not saying you shouldn't try, I think EVERY person should work to improve themselves educationally through reading and taking courses where they can. But it's not an easy task for someone without the natural resources.

4 goes without saying. Providing a stable two-parent family for Black kids makes so much difference. Over and over in my classrooms I saw so many kids with potential struggling because their father wasn't in the home.

5 again is pretty hard for parents without resources to do. How does an uneducated parent in a poor neighborhood expand their social circle to include doctors, programmers, welders, pilots, naturalists, and teachers? How do they get their kids in a position to befriend and spend time with the kids of those folk? I assume there's shyt you can do but it's not an easy ask. My family was lower working class, but since my parents were college-educated they naturally gravitated towards other college-educated adults, and thus I ended up with a friend group that was almost entirely from far better socioeconomic background than my own family. I'm not sure the same thing would have been as natural or as easy for parents who don't have that background.


1, 2, and 6 aren't easy either, but in some ways the answer is at least more direct. If you don't have the resources within your own family and social circles to help your kids succeed, then do everything possible to get your kids out of neighborhoods where their failure has been pre-determined by society. Get them out of the high-PTSD hood, get them into an integrated school with low teacher turnover and a student population that American society actually wants to see succeed. I know that's not a popular answer on this faux-militant site, but it's the most realistic one. And I understand that for many parents it's an impossible ask do to their economic situation. But if you can do it, do it.
 

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i think its the fact that they used michigan as stats is really skewing this. the economic condition of black folks as a whole is below average to abysmal in this state outside a tiny few IMO. i don’t think this would be the case in other states like maryland or georgia or texas

also asian people value different shyt culturally. it is what it is—it would take 6,000 years of something like individual-crushing confucianism/pious buddhism to build those values
 

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i think its the fact that they used michigan as stats is really skewing this. the economic condition of black folks as a whole is below average to abysmal in this state outside a tiny few IMO. i don’t think this would be the case in other states like maryland or georgia or texas

also asian people value different shyt culturally. it is what it is—it would take 6,000 years of something like individual-crushing confucianism/pious buddhism to build those values


Thais, Cambodians, and Laotians are all Buddhists and have mediocre-to-shyt academic results both in their home countries and as immigrants in the USA.

Cambodia and Laos at least have the excuse of being horribly war-torn, but Thailand is pretty much stable and yet I don't know if I've ever been anywhere in my life where education was valued as little as it was in Thailand. That's the only place I've spent any time where there wasn't only a terrible education system, but no one even seemed to care to make it any better.
 

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3 is pretty hard if you're struggling in the grind. If you yourself are uneducated, and you have to work your ass off to keep your family afloat, it's not easy to turn yourself into an educated person. Not saying you shouldn't try, I think EVERY person should work to improve themselves educationally through reading and taking courses where they can. But it's not an easy task for someone without the natural resources.

4 goes without saying. Providing a stable two-parent family for Black kids makes so much difference. Over and over in my classrooms I saw so many kids with potential struggling because their father wasn't in the home.

5 again is pretty hard for parents without resources to do. How does an uneducated parent in a poor neighborhood expand their social circle to include doctors, programmers, welders, pilots, naturalists, and teachers? How do they get their kids in a position to befriend and spend time with the kids of those folk? I assume there's shyt you can do but it's not an easy ask. My family was lower working class, but since my parents were college-educated they naturally gravitated towards other college-educated adults, and thus I ended up with a friend group that was almost entirely from far better socioeconomic background than my own family. I'm not sure the same thing would have been as natural or as easy for parents who don't have that background.


1, 2, and 6 aren't easy either, but in some ways the answer is at least more direct. If you don't have the resources within your own family and social circles to help your kids succeed, then do everything possible to get your kids out of neighborhoods where their failure has been pre-determined by society. Get them out of the high-PTSD hood, get them into an integrated school with low teacher turnover and a student population that American society actually wants to see succeed. I know that's not a popular answer on this faux-militant site, but it's the most realistic one. And I understand that for many parents it's an impossible ask do to their economic situation. But if you can do it, do it.

The fact that parents read parenting books don't make them better parents...it's moreso that fact they're interested enough in being good parents to buy and read a parenting book.

My point is that I'm not expecting parents to get degrees, but I'd want them to try and read a book at home and show their kids the value in it.

And if you're in a metro area, like most people in America, resources aren't an issue. All you need is a library card and you'll be exposed to plenty of programs that introduce kids to different things.

It's 2022, time for these metrics of success to start improving.
 

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Since my previous answer ended up being directed to what parents can do, I want to add in terms of shyt we can actually change on a larger public policy / social level:


#1. End school segregation. "Separate but Equal" has never, ever worked. Majority Black/Brown schools are always going to get poorer infrastructure, worse teachers, more demeaning pedagogy, etc. than the majority White schools get. Thinking you can close the test gap while maintaining de facto segregation is a bullshyt fantasy perpetrated primarily by White folk who don't ever want to see their children's advantages diminished.


#2. Modernize pedagogy. Bush's "No Child Left Behind" bullshyt set us back 20 years, but teaching had already been going in a stupid direction for a while before that. The focus in inner-city schools on rote memorization, scripted classes, boring-ass test prep even for little kids, removing art/music/electives from the cirriculum, etc. has all made the situation much WORSE. Well-off White families would never accept such an intellectually impoverished sylllabus for their own children, but then they claim it's what Black children need.


#3. Expand the social network of poor Black folk. Having uneducated parents puts you behind, but the Black community in general can't help that because generational educational disadvantages are real. So the best we can do to combat that is ensuring kids from poorer families with less educational background are heavily exposed to role models and peer groups that have had other opportunities. That means diversifying our neighborhoods, getting successful Black folk to move back into and revitalize Black communities while helping poorer Black folk move out of the ghetto. Some states have piloted programs to help Section 8 recipients move into middle-class neighborhoods with strong school systems rather than always de facto ending up in the poorest hoods with the worst schools. That's a step.


#4. Assist parenting among the poor and uneducated. Help parents learn the power of reading to their kids from a young age (in some countries they literally give the parents children's books when their babies are born). Help parents learn the power of TALKING to their kids from a young age. There was one study that showed White kids are spoken to with twice as many words per day from adults as Black kids are. You don't think that's gonna make a massive difference in their own verbal ability when they start going to school? Part of this is inescapable social disadvantages (single parents, parents always at work), but part of it is a lack of understanding that kids should be talked to just like adults are and aren't just meant to be left alone to play or watch TV or whatever on their own.


#5. Do everything possible to increase the status of school in Black communities and enhance long-term thinking. One of the biggest reasons I was as successful as I was in school is because I knew from the age of 5 that I not only wanted to go to college, but I wanted to go to the best college possible so I could become whatever I wanted to be. How did I pick up that desire? I have no fukking clue. My parents don't know either (but both of them are college-educated which certainly helped). I didn't even know what I wanted to be when I grew up, I just knew that going to a great college would give me the most options to make it happen. But the fact that I was so driven to do well in college meant that I was ALWAYS motivated to do my best in school and no one could stop me. I wasn't popular, I was considered a nerd and teased, I got in a lot of fights, but none of that ever dissuaded me because I knew what my goals were and knew they were more important than the idiots trying to talk trash. We need to help kids have realistic long-term life goals that they can really believe in and push to get there despite any bullshyt that might try to trip them up along the way.



There are other important factors like the lower education level among Black parents or the downstream impacts of historic socioeconomic inequalities that you just can't address in the moment, but will have to work for generations to see those even out.

Then there is the shyt like the high incidence of broken families, disproportionate # of black kids in foster care, high PTSD levels in poor inner-city black neighborhoods, and lower-quality health care/nutrition in black communities. Obviously there is stuff you can try to do to address those things but it won't really be much about education directly but more about other systems.

I keep thinking of more factors that should be including (tracking, disability labeling, school discipline systems) but I need to stop there.
 

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Thais, Cambodians, and Laotians are all Buddhists and have mediocre-to-shyt academic results both in their home countries and as immigrants in the USA.

Cambodia and Laos at least have the excuse of being horribly war-torn, but Thailand is pretty much stable and yet I don't know if I've ever been anywhere in my life where education was valued as little as it was in Thailand. That's the only place I've spent any time where there wasn't only a terrible education system, but no one even seemed to care to make it any better.
its interesting you say that bc there is a decent laotian and burmese population here in MI so they might be the 10% at the bottom lol. they not buddhist here tho they’re catholic so in my opinion they’re basically on a similar playing field with the mexicans
 

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its interesting you say that bc there is a decent laotian and burmese population here in MI so they might be the 10% at the bottom lol. they not buddhist here tho they’re catholic so in my opinion they’re basically on a similar playing field with the mexicans


Laotian, Hmong, Cambodians mostly get to the USA via refugee status and end up with pretty much the same academic results that all other refugees do. Burma likely is close to the same boat though I don't know the statistics for sure. Has far more to do with their social background than religion. Buddhism is by far the dominant religion in their countries.


There are three basic primary immigration pathways well-known to people who study this shyt.

#1: Refugee-status immigrants. They're pretty much forced to come here because their home country was fukked up, usually by war. Due to official refugee status, this is the most diverse cross-section of refugees, including people from every level of society. Tend to perform the worst academically and socioeconomically.

#2: Labor-status immigrants. Come here as laborers to pursue better economic opportunity. Often slightly less desperate than #1 as well as slightly more self-selected (because the ones with certain skills/drive are more likely to be able to navigate all the systems they need to actually make it here and last than the population at large). Tend to perform better than refugee-status populations, but not at the level of natives or elites.

#3: Elite-status immigrants. Come here as professionals, college/grad students, or businessmen, immigrating with highly-desired work or business visas. Usually had relatively high status or opportunity in their home country, or at least were connected to people with status. Tend to perform even better than the native population.



If you can identify the main immigration pathway of the country, that tells you more about how they succeed academically in America than any other factor. Whether they're from India or Nigeria, Finland or Egypt, immigrant populations comprised primarily of elite-status immigrants tend to do very well here. Whether they're from Cambodia or Somalia, Haiti or Hmong, those who have refugee status tend to do not nearly as well academically. (There are exceptions sometimes in mixed groups, like Vietnamese refugees who were heavily skewed towards high-status wealthy refugees who had American connections and thus got evacuation priority, and thus led to Vietnamese academic results being more of a mixed bag in-between elite-status and refugee-status populations.)
 
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