Only 3% of Black students scored a 1200+ on the SAT

[Darth Nubian]

SAT is more about Test prep than education. Sort of like how a 4.0 gpa student can still fail their MCAT. Doesn't say anything about your education. Just how well you prepared for that particular test.

An realistically it takes money to be prepared properly for those type of exams. You can be the brightest student in your class but if your parents can't afford to enroll you in SAT prep courses online or with a tutor, you will be a disadvantage.

This is a complete bullshyt. I got higher than this in the mid 90's (yes ) before all this test prep nonsense. Either you know it or you don't. Stop making excuses. There is free test prep online if you think it makes that much of a difference. The fact of the matter is that we aren't taking our children's education seriously because we have internalized inferiority and are afraid of competition.

 

[Dr. Acula]

How do you get people who have kids to raise them better?

Well, like I said, talking about this and setting what collective we agree is acceptable, shameful, worth being proud of, etc has a huge impact. It's a good first step. A lot of bullshyt persists because there is no effective push back against it to the point it makes a difference. It's kind of like when you have a clout chaser in a social setting doing a whole bunch of fukk shyt and people may say "You're wrong/crazy/etc" but their indirect actions such as laughing or saying these things with a grin on their face only leads to the clout chaser making more of a fool of themselves. Social pressure and influence is probably the greatest tool to make social change. If the class clown clout chaser type was instead met with scorn and faces of disgust across the board in response to the fukk shyt, they are less likely to continue with the fukk shyt because there is no dopamine hit there from social admiration but instead, they are put on the outside through their actions. They may even decide not to continue their actions that resulted in them being on the outs.

A lot of people's behaviors are dictated by social mimicry. Whatever the larger social group set as being norms to follow, just by the nature of how human operate, most people will follow along. This is in black folk's control. Its not only about cheating, though as someone who went to university for a STEM degree, at that level there are a lot of these folks cheating, that isn't a lie. However, at the same time, the average asian parent will also shame and chastise a child who brings home shytty test scores. Its not tolerated and Asian parents love having pissing contests with other Asian parents over their accomplishments of their kid, this is also a form of ingroup social pressure because it sets up an environment where you don't want to be the one parent who has the kid who is not conforming this way. There are cultural factors at play here that I think are missing from the black community for example, in general or at least, not as strongly present as it is in other communities.

 

[Monsanto]

The world (and the US) is full of poor Asian people. Way more than those that are rich. The media only promotes the best of their communities so you’d never know.

If the media only promoted the top 5-10% of black people, this thread wouldn’t read like this.

Context is key. We are talking about schooling in America. Keep up with the text and premise of the thread.

 

[kovi]

My lil bro got 90+ percentile and wasn't some privileged youth. What we had was (1) two-parent college-educated household and (2) school involvement w/ high expectations. He never took prep classes but did use books from the library. He's currently in medical school on a full ride. I achieved less but I have a solid career (90K+ w/ bonuses) and very little debt.

This isn't impossible. I'm a victim product FL public education and I still made it. I do notice that most of the "successful" black folk around me are mostly non-ADOS, including the kids in my AP classes going way back to high school. To say household doesn't matter and blame everything on the school system, culturally-biased tests, etc is disingenuous; it's mostly cultural.

I see recent poor immigrants from everywhere come in and kill it without 3-5 years where I'm at while blacks, more often than not ADOS, remain an underclass.

 

[Gloxina]

This is not only a stupid take, it’s not based in any fact. If I didn’t know any better, I would assume you were a white person posing as a black person, or, at best, a c00n. So is everyone who dapped that filth.

SAT scores have little to do with “taking school serious” or even intelligence. It’s about knowing how to take a standardized test. Success on the SAT comes from repetition and classes specifically made for the exam, both of which are very expensive. Asians and white people, especially the highly educated, can afford to put their children in extra courses that cost thousands of dollars. They can also arrange transportation to get them there, etc.

The SAT is also obsolete. You don’t need it to get into college. And this coming from someone who had a 1200+ when the SAT mattered.

This is a typical c00n Bat Signal thread only made to speak down on black people. Notice these threads are inundated with supposedly black people who have no idea how statistics, facts, or education actually work.

The jig is up

How many of the Black kids have parents who purchased prep manuals? Put them in SAT Prep classes? Actually sat with them and quizzed them/made them do the at-home practice tests weekly? I don’t know if people understand how seriously other communities take these things and how hard they push their kids.

Those scores reflect culture around education/studying in many of our homes.

 

[Sad Bunny]

It's simple, we don't take school seriously.

This.

It was cool to cut class and get detention and get suspended when I was growing up. They used to make fun of the people who were smart and cared about school. And obviously has to do with the parents as well because the parents have to care and instilled that in the children.

 

[acri1]

Well, like I said, talking about this and setting what collective we agree is acceptable, shameful, worth being proud of, etc has a huge impact. It's a good first step. A lot of bullshyt persists because there is no effective push back against it to the point it makes a difference. It's kind of like when you have a clout chaser in a social setting doing a whole bunch of fukk shyt and people may say "You're wrong/crazy/etc" but their indirect actions such as laughing or saying these things with a grin on their face only leads to the clout chaser making more of a fool of themselves. Social pressure and influence is probably the greatest tool to make social change. If the class clown clout chaser type was instead met with scorn and faces of disgust across the board in response to the fukk shyt, they are less likely to continue with the fukk shyt because there is no dopamine hit there from social admiration but instead, they are put on the outside through their actions. They may even decide not to continue their actions that resulted in them being on the outs.

A lot of people's behaviors are dictated by social mimicry. Whatever the larger social group set as being norms to follow, just by the nature of how human operate, most people will follow along. This is in black folk's control. Its not only about cheating, though as someone who went to university for a STEM degree, at that level there are a lot of these folks cheating, that isn't a lie. However, at the same time, the average asian parent will also shame and chastise a child who brings home shytty test scores. Its not tolerated and Asian parents love having pissing contests with other Asian parents over their accomplishments of their kid, this is also a form of ingroup social pressure because it sets up an environment where you don't want to be the one parent who has the kid who is not conforming this way. There are cultural factors at play here that I think are missing from the black community for example, in general or at least, not as strongly present as it is in other communities.

Pretty much.

I think the only way things are really going to change on a large scale is if a bad SAT score gets nikkas clowned the same way a bad haircut or outfit does.


But I don't know how you'd make that happen.

 

[Kyle C. Barker]

is everything else equal? are they going to lower income schools.
i find it hard to believe you think an upper income black family, presumely college grads themselves don't care about education

I'm with you because There's just a lot that goes into doing well on the SAT.


are your parents educated? Do they use SAT words in every day conversation? Can they speak on science based topics intelligibly?

Do they discuss current events inteligbly as well?

And then of course you have actual school districts where the required reading list differs from county to county (which of course also correlates to property values )


But Yes, you need to practice the Sat by taking as many practice tests as you can to get your timing down BUT prepping for the English section is something you have to be immersed in for years

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

It's simple, we don't take school seriously.

We have the lowest scores outta everyone and you think it not tied back to what is going on in the home

What’s going on at home certainly has a direct effect, but it’s incredibly stupid to say this is simply the result of Black people not caring about education. You could argue this generation of parents doesn’t prioritize education (I’d disagree, but since a large percentage of this generation parents aren’t even there, it nets out to the same bad home situation) but past generations absolutely prioritized education; to a notoriously strict level. Yet despite this prioritization, they still lagged in their educational achievements compared to their counterparts. That’s why Black kids tend to have parents who haven’t achieved as much in education and the study showed there’s a strong correlation between parent’s educational level and how well the child will perform.

So no, this is not “simply” a case of Black people not taking education seriously, this is white supremacy at work; you’re just witnessing the next phase. This is the confluence of many white suprematist practices including inherently biased tests and the reason there’s so many absentee parents in this generation (that’s a whole other conversation) but it’s easy to see how all this shyt is entwined. None of this happened in a bubble. None of this happened by happenstance. It’s the design unfolding.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Making the comparison to "Asians" is nonsense. You're looking at just 4,000 Asian students in your entire sample, a huge % of which are the children of doctors/scientists/engineers/wealthy businessmen or others with advanced degrees. These aren't a representative sample of Asians, they're way overrepresented by the successful ones who immigrated based off status. And then even the ones that didn't have those advantages are having peers, playmates, study partners, etc. with all those advantages.

If you looked at the Asian subgroups that aren't heavily selected for top performers (Hmong, Cambodians, Pacific Islanders, etc.) you'd see a very different picture.

The test scores are a problem, but it's the Black/White comparison that matters, the Asian #'s are too cherry-picked to mean anything.

 

[IsThatBrothaMouzone?]

Damn near half of all Asians...they really are the Model Minority

Asians take SAT prep classes more than anyone....their test scores are like the college football draft picks that run 4.3 at the combine but play 4.55 on game tape. They train to test well so they might have an 1100 SAT brain but score 1300.

I scored 1210 with zero prep on my first try. That's probably a 1300-1350 if I had prepped for it.

It's why Asians tend to prefer admission requirements based mostly on grades and testing because that's where they do best. White/Black kids tend to be more spread out in sports and extracurricular stuff, so those groups prefer a more holistic admission process.

Asians think SAT/ACT tests are the most fair way to judge students but ignore the fact they spend wayyyyy more time preparing for the tests. Judging based on one score is like judging an NBA player solely on his vertical leap. Good to know a person's athletic potential but it doesn't tell me how they perform in games.

I've heard your grades are a better measuring stick for future performance. A+ students tend be hard workers and generally do well even if they struggle at first. High test scores don't speak to how you will use your natural gifts.

 

[Uachet]

Children will take seriously what their parents emphasize as being important for the most part. My wife has been a teacher for over 20 years, and too many times the poor students seemed to be children of parents who themselves did not take their children's education seriously. Not always, but so much so that there was a correlation between the two. Also, some of the teachers and administration noticing this phenomena would take the easy way out and just pass those children even when they had straight Fs. The parents do have the option to retain their children, but the vast majority refuse to even when it is demonstrated that their children can barely read and solve math problems. It got so bad that some principles were even banning the use of the letter grade F or a score less than 50. It would cause my wife to bump heads with them periodically, because she felt those children really did need to know how they were doing, and that false bottom was giving them and their parents a false sense of accomplishment.

So really, the problem is three-fold to me. Parents who are not taking the development of their children's academics seriously enough, Teachers who give up on those children since their very own parents do not seem to care, and last the Admin bureaucracy who is more worried about finagling test scores and graduation rates instead of making sure those children are academically prepared for the world. The child in the middle of this loses out, and in that circumstance only children who are self-aware enough to realize what is at stake will thrive in that situation.

 

[IsThatBrothaMouzone?]

Making the comparison to "Asians" is nonsense. You're looking at just 4,000 Asian students in your entire sample, a huge % of which are the children of doctors/scientists/engineers/wealthy businessmen or others with advanced degrees. These aren't a representative sample of Asians, they're way overrepresented by the successful ones who immigrated based off status. And then even the ones that didn't have those advantages are having peers, playmates, study partners, etc. with all those advantages.

If you looked at the Asian subgroups that aren't heavily selected for top performers (Hmong, Cambodians, Pacific Islanders, etc.) you'd see a very different picture.

The test scores are a problem, but it's the Black/White comparison that matters, the Asian #'s are too cherry-picked to mean anything.

This 100%.

Even with income....Asians make the most money but that's HEAVILY influenced by Indians. All those doctors, engineers etc., skew the Asian results heavy. Koreans and Chinese don't even make the $$$ Indians pull. Filipinos do well in nursing. The other Asians struggle big time.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

This 100%.

Even with income....Asians make the most money but that's HEAVILY influenced by Indians. All those doctors, engineers etc., skew the Asian results heavy. Koreans and Chinese don't even make the $$$ Indians pull. Filipinos do well in nursing. The other Asians struggle big time.

And ironically, India as a country has HORRIBLE test scores.

"India participated in a modern international assessment for the first time in 2009-10 when some students from Tamil Nadu and Himachal Pradesh appeared in the PISA test. However, we performed very poorly – ranking 73rd out of 74 countries that participated that round, finishing ahead of only Kazakhstan."

The PISA Test – Why Do Indian Students Struggle in Tests Like These?

Let us look at all the reasons why assessments like PISA (and even ASSET) turn out to be difficult for most Indian students.

edtechreview.in

That kills most of the narratives around this test score gap. India as a country has horrible test scores, but Indians in the USA are at the very top. That's because the vast majority of Indian-Americans come from the elite top 5% of their own country. If a bunch of manual laborers and slum dwellers immigrated to the USA instead, lived in inner-city neighborhoods and attended the same schools black students attend, they'd perform worse than Black kids do. But the sample is cherry-picked.

Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Burma, Bangladesh, Nepal, Pakistan - all of them struggle in test scores too. Even the Phillippines is mediocre to bad. The narrative that all Asians do well in tests is completely manufactured, driven mostly by a few select countries who send the best of their best to the West.

Again, not dismissing that low test scores is a real problem. Just that Asians is a misguided, meaningless comparison.

 

[FieldMouse51]

My mom made me take the SAT in the 8th grade, I hated that shyt but I got a 990. They put me in the Duke TIP program, which is nothing really, except they give you classes and study material to do even better on the SAT. So I took it two more times, and eventually got a 1330.

This is something like a smaller version of the flynn effect- the test are not reliable because you can do better every time you take it. My daughters already studying for it in the 8th grade.