Official Watchmen Thread

Rollie Forbes

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PG's 301-304
That was good. At least you tried to provide receipts, unlike the other guy. Anyway, I guess you're referring to the famous "rough stuff with the boys" passage on page 303. While it can be implied that HJ was involved in gay acts, it could (and has)also be speculated that the "rough stuff" refers to an underground fight club that the hyperviolent, sadistic Hooded Justice was possibly involved in.
Again, not concrete proof, but I at least have to give you props for at least cracking open the original source material.
 

Devilinurear

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That was good. At least you tried to provide receipts, unlike the other guy. Anyway, I guess you're referring to the famous "rough stuff with the boys" passage on page 303. While it can be implied that HJ was involved in gay acts, it could (and has)also be speculated that the "rough stuff" refers to an underground fight club that the hyperviolent, sadistic Hooded Justice was possibly involved in.
Again, not concrete proof, but I at least have to give you props for at least cracking open the original source material.

fukk you:wtb:
 

Rekkapryde

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That's a far worse image of a Black man to portray than him being gay breh. :francis:

I'm fed up with this 2 for 1 special on inclusivity shyt but we don't need to further those stereotypes neither.

Gotta agree. Becoming dangerous and violent at the crib beating on his wife/son is worse than him being a booty snatcher....even as ridiculous at that sounds. :francis:
 

Rollie Forbes

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That's a far worse image of a Black man to portray than him being gay breh. :francis:

I'm fed up with this 2 for 1 special on inclusivity shyt but we don't need to further those stereotypes neither.
I agree. I wouldn't want them to perpetuate the stereotype of the violent Black man either, but I was just brainstorming ways they could have written June out of the storyline.
 

TheGodling

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Let me get a few points in on this little topic, on which has been said way too much because of the self-image problems of grown ass men:

In the comics Hooded Justice was gay.

You can play the 'BUT IT WAS ONLY IMPLIED!' card, but the comic also only implied that The Comedian killed JFK, and people take that as fact with no issue. Because the comic is full of implications clearly pointing towards truths. That's how writing generally works, you don't need to spell everything out if you create a pattern. And talking about pattern:

This entire episode uses the concept of the costumed hero as a metaphor for homosexuality.

  • We are told three times about Will's affection for 'strong heroes'. First at the police inauguration with him proudly stating he joined the force because of the lieutenant, the second time when he asks the news vendor about the Superman comic, and the third time when he talks about the Bass Reeves movie he loved as a child. All these scenes subtly set up his taste in men.
  • The scene between Nelson and Will with June at the table clearly show her catching the vibes between the two, and the affectionate touch the two men share exchanging the card. The entire conversation is not just a proposal from Captain Metropolis to Hooded Justice to join the Minutemen, but also a sexual proposal from Nelson to Will. June doesn't like it from the start, but her resistance becomes much stronger as she gradually sees the sexual tension between the two. The scene ends with a close-up of Will, looking visibly conflicted with himself, before being shaken up by June saying 'No!'.
  • It then cuts to the sex scene, which you could argue could also be handled by showing them kiss or post-sex, but I think Lindelof felt it important to show the sex to show how long the sexual repression had built up in Will. It's not a romantic relationship, it's a sexual one born from the sexual repression (much like Hooded Justice was born from his repressed anger).
  • There's the scene where June asks Will to tell her about the first time he saw her, and instead of it being a romantic story, it's him finding her as a baby after the Tulsa massacre. Rather than father/daughter or brother/sister relationship, they become romantically linked. The implication formed here in my opinion is that Will, in order to hide and repress his homosexuality, started a relationship with literally the first girl in his life.
    (Side-note: the imagery June as a baby wrapped in an American flag being saved from the Tulsa massacre by Will is a parralel of Superman being saved from his exploding planet as a baby wrapped in the flag of his family crest)
  • The hood, but more importantly the make-up, becomes an ironic parralel for Will's repressed anger homosexuality. Putting on the hood and make-up allows Will to express himself freely (fight crime which he cannot actually do in his actual day job as a policeman). Let me rephrase that again, Will is a man who dresses up and puts on make-up in order to be able to freely express himself. Get the picture?
  • When he catches his son putting on make-up, the parralel is complete. Will does not want his son to become a homosexual like him, causing the anger of June who can no longer live with Will's denial of himself. The words they exchange in the argument on surface level sound like they are about his anger-fueled vigilantism, but by this point it should be clear that the vigilantism is about repressed homosexuality and everything June says is just as easily applied to his repressed homosexuality.
It's all quite incredible actually if you're not too busy being caught up in toxic masculinity. :whew:
 

JMurder

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That was good. At least you tried to provide receipts, unlike the other guy. Anyway, I guess you're referring to the famous "rough stuff with the boys" passage on page 303. While it can be implied that HJ was involved in gay acts, it could (and has)also be speculated that the "rough stuff" refers to an underground fight club that the hyperviolent, sadistic Hooded Justice was possibly involved in.
Again, not concrete proof, but I at least have to give you props for at least cracking open the original source material.
What is your take on HJ and Nelly being tough to cover for

:comeon:

Also the "two gay Minutemen who are dead now" in the interview in 77
 

Rollie Forbes

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What is your take on HJ and Nelly being tough to cover for

:comeon:

Also the "two gay Minutemen who are dead now" in the interview in 77
HJ and Silk Spectre were in a made-for-TMZ fake relationship. That's it, nothing more, nothing less.

Also, by 1977, more than 2 of the original Minutemen were dead. The gay ones could've been anybody.
:yeshrug:
 

Rollie Forbes

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Let me get a few points in on this little topic, on which has been said way too much because of the self-image problems of grown ass men:

In the comics Hooded Justice was gay.

You can play the 'BUT IT WAS ONLY IMPLIED!' card, but the comic also only implied that The Comedian killed JFK, and people take that as fact with no issue. Because the comic is full of implications clearly pointing towards truths. That's how writing generally works, you don't need to spell everything out if you create a pattern. And talking about pattern:

This entire episode uses the concept of the costumed hero as a metaphor for homosexuality.

  • We are told three times about Will's affection for 'strong heroes'. First at the police inauguration with him proudly stating he joined the force because of the lieutenant, the second time when he asks the news vendor about the Superman comic, and the third time when he talks about the Bass Reeves movie he loved as a child. All these scenes subtly set up his taste in men.
  • The scene between Nelson and Will with June at the table clearly show her catching the vibes between the two, and the affectionate touch the two men share exchanging the card. The entire conversation is not just a proposal from Captain Metropolis to Hooded Justice to join the Minutemen, but also a sexual proposal from Nelson to Will. June doesn't like it from the start, but her resistance becomes much stronger as she gradually sees the sexual tension between the two. The scene ends with a close-up of Will, looking visibly conflicted with himself, before being shaken up by June saying 'No!'.
  • It then cuts to the sex scene, which you could argue could also be handled by showing them kiss or post-sex, but I think Lindelof felt it important to show the sex to show how long the sexual repression had built up in Will. It's not a romantic relationship, it's a sexual one born from the sexual repression (much like Hooded Justice was born from his repressed anger).
  • There's the scene where June asks Will to tell her about the first time he saw her, and instead of it being a romantic story, it's him finding her as a baby after the Tulsa massacre. Rather than father/daughter or brother/sister relationship, they become romantically linked. The implication formed here in my opinion is that Will, in order to hide and repress his homosexuality, started a relationship with literally the first girl in his life.
    (Side-note: the imagery June as a baby wrapped in an American flag being saved from the Tulsa massacre by Will is a parralel of Superman being saved from his exploding planet as a baby wrapped in the flag of his family crest)
  • The hood, but more importantly the make-up, becomes an ironic parralel for Will's repressed anger homosexuality. Putting on the hood and make-up allows Will to express himself freely (fight crime which he cannot actually do in his actual day job as a policeman). Let me rephrase that again, Will is a man who dresses up and puts on make-up in order to be able to freely express himself. Get the picture?
  • When he catches his son putting on make-up, the parralel is complete. Will does not want his son to become a homosexual like him, causing the anger of June who can no longer live with Will's denial of himself. The words they exchange in the argument on surface level sound like they are about his anger-fueled vigilantism, but by this point it should be clear that the vigilantism is about repressed homosexuality and everything June says is just as easily applied to his repressed homosexuality.
It's all quite incredible actually if you're not too busy being caught up in toxic masculinity. :whew:
THIS IS THE DEBATE THAT I WANTED!
This one is going to be fun, but we need to address one thing at the start: There is NOTHING "toxic" about being masculine! That is a harmful phrase and is an attack on manhood. Whether a man is heterosexual or homosexual, he should not be persecuted for being masculine.
Anyway, this thread has gone onto a tangent, so let's bring it back to the start of the conversation.
The issue that I had with last night's episode was the unnecessary gay sex scene between Hooded Justice and Captain Metropolis.
You brought up some subtle things that I may have missed, so I'm going to rewatch the episode so that I can see and properly address the things that you mentioned.
Give me a moment.
 

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Let me get a few points in on this little topic, on which has been said way too much because of the self-image problems of grown ass men:

In the comics Hooded Justice was gay.

You can play the 'BUT IT WAS ONLY IMPLIED!' card, but the comic also only implied that The Comedian killed JFK, and people take that as fact with no issue. Because the comic is full of implications clearly pointing towards truths. That's how writing generally works, you don't need to spell everything out if you create a pattern. And talking about pattern:

This entire episode uses the concept of the costumed hero as a metaphor for homosexuality.

  • We are told three times about Will's affection for 'strong heroes'. First at the police inauguration with him proudly stating he joined the force because of the lieutenant, the second time when he asks the news vendor about the Superman comic, and the third time when he talks about the Bass Reeves movie he loved as a child. All these scenes subtly set up his taste in men.
  • The scene between Nelson and Will with June at the table clearly show her catching the vibes between the two, and the affectionate touch the two men share exchanging the card. The entire conversation is not just a proposal from Captain Metropolis to Hooded Justice to join the Minutemen, but also a sexual proposal from Nelson to Will. June doesn't like it from the start, but her resistance becomes much stronger as she gradually sees the sexual tension between the two. The scene ends with a close-up of Will, looking visibly conflicted with himself, before being shaken up by June saying 'No!'.
  • It then cuts to the sex scene, which you could argue could also be handled by showing them kiss or post-sex, but I think Lindelof felt it important to show the sex to show how long the sexual repression had built up in Will. It's not a romantic relationship, it's a sexual one born from the sexual repression (much like Hooded Justice was born from his repressed anger).
  • There's the scene where June asks Will to tell her about the first time he saw her, and instead of it being a romantic story, it's him finding her as a baby after the Tulsa massacre. Rather than father/daughter or brother/sister relationship, they become romantically linked. The implication formed here in my opinion is that Will, in order to hide and repress his homosexuality, started a relationship with literally the first girl in his life.
    (Side-note: the imagery June as a baby wrapped in an American flag being saved from the Tulsa massacre by Will is a parralel of Superman being saved from his exploding planet as a baby wrapped in the flag of his family crest)
  • The hood, but more importantly the make-up, becomes an ironic parralel for Will's repressed anger homosexuality. Putting on the hood and make-up allows Will to express himself freely (fight crime which he cannot actually do in his actual day job as a policeman). Let me rephrase that again, Will is a man who dresses up and puts on make-up in order to be able to freely express himself. Get the picture?
  • When he catches his son putting on make-up, the parralel is complete. Will does not want his son to become a homosexual like him, causing the anger of June who can no longer live with Will's denial of himself. The words they exchange in the argument on surface level sound like they are about his anger-fueled vigilantism, but by this point it should be clear that the vigilantism is about repressed homosexuality and everything June says is just as easily applied to his repressed homosexuality.
It's all quite incredible actually if you're not too busy being caught up in toxic masculinity. :whew:
:salute:
 

JMurder

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THIS IS THE DEBATE THAT I WANTED!
This one is going to be fun, but we need to address one thing at the start: There is NOTHING "toxic" about being masculine! That is a harmful phrase and is an attack on manhood.
This is the same type of word trickery racist whites use to absolve themselves of being racist.

Toxic masculinity is not an attack on manhood... It's an attack on shyt nikkas think is ok under the guise of "men being men."
 

Rollie Forbes

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This is the same type of word trickery racist whites use to absolve themselves of being racist.

Toxic masculinity is not an attack on manhood... It's an attack on shyt nikkas think is ok under the guise of "men being men."
Toxic=bad, masculinity=manhood. What am I missing? How do you define toxic masculinity?
 

Professor K.

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This is the same type of word trickery racist whites use to absolve themselves of being racist.

Toxic masculinity is not an attack on manhood... It's an attack on shyt nikkas think is ok under the guise of "men being men."
Toxic=bad, masculinity=manhood. What am I missing? How do you define toxic masculinity?


I'm all for tangents but can we PLEASE not have that conversation right now brehs :francis:

We're getting somewhere in this discussion, let's not lose that over millennial semantics
 

PoorAndDangerous

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Guys, it's natural to not enjoy gay sex scenes as a heterosexual, but it's not normal to distill the entire episode down to a 5 second cheek clapping scene. Some of you all need to grow the fukk up. Also being gay isn't by definition emasculating, this guy was beating the fukk out of cacs and killing them. I've known gay dudes who would beat the fukk out of anyone who said a word about them being gay. You can be gay and manly. If you think Lindelof just wanted to emasculate another black man when this whole show is about combating cacs and their racism you're a fukking retard. This is an amazingly created show from the writing, cinematography to the music. Sit back and enjoy, stop being little fukking bytches
 
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