Official TLR Stupidity Thread

[CrimsonTider]

Yeah, that's a great idea. We should pass a crime bill to get these super predators off the street. No way that ends badly.

No one wants criminals and the threat of crime near them. No one

Y’all should prioritize the victims in your thinking not the pieces of shyt that are disrupting peoples lives

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Being in poverty is not a reason to kill or steal. There are millions & millions of people in poverty that have never attempted to harm anyone in anyway

Do you not care that the victims are black? All the trauma created by criminal belongs to black people?

Why do y’all trying to excuse and rationalize crime? Someone killing and robbing and harming people that are just trying co exist don’t need rehabilitation or excuses they need to be separated from society

No shyt. Your way of thinking has been tried and has already shown to not work. The fact is that crime is a symptom of poverty and lack of opportunity. Punishing crime severely does nothing to curb crime, it only encourages the degradation of society. Rehabilitation also works better to curb crime than punishment does. You're working backwards.

No one wants criminals and the threat of crime near them. No one

Y’all should prioritize the victims in your thinking not the pieces of shyt that are disrupting peoples lives

I feel like I'm the one with the victims in mind, and you're focusing on the criminals. If you get stabbed by a child tomorrow, having pedophiles rape your attacker isn't going to unstab you. You help the victims by trying to make sure there are less victims moving forward, not fantasizing about the ways to punish criminals.

 

[JasoRockStar]

No shyt. Your way of thinking has been tried and has already shown to not work. The fact is that crime is a symptom of poverty and lack of opportunity. Punishing crime severely does nothing to curb crime, it only encourages the degradation of society. Rehabilitation also works better to curb crime than punishment does. You're working backwards.

I feel like I'm the one with the victims in mind, and you're focusing on the criminals. If you get stabbed by a child tomorrow, having pedophiles rape your attacker isn't going to unstab you. You help the victims by trying to make sure there are less victims moving forward, not fantasizing about the ways to punish criminals.

I just don't see how people can claim to care about the black community when they have such hatred for children. Who are you building up the community for if not them? Any time they encounter any bit of strife with a child, it's "fukk them kids" and they want to toss them away to the same system they complain about.

 

[get these nets]

No shyt. Your way of thinking has been tried and has already shown to not work. The fact is that crime is a symptom of poverty and lack of opportunity. Punishing crime severely does nothing to curb crime, it only encourages the degradation of society. Rehabilitation also works better to curb crime than punishment does. You're working backwards.

I feel like I'm the one with the victims in mind, and you're focusing on the criminals. If you get stabbed by a child tomorrow, having pedophiles rape your attacker isn't going to unstab you. You help the victims by trying to make sure there are less victims moving forward, not fantasizing about the ways to punish criminals.

Less victims moving forward is accomplished by removing the perpetrators of those crimes from society for long sentences/ or forever. Before they kill other people .
Which translates to the harsh sentences that you reject earlier in that post.

Unless I'm not understanding. How else would society make sure that there are fewer victims in the future without at least incarcerating the killers forever (or for long stretches)? That can be done in conjunctuon with other measures, but it has to be done.

=====

I posed a question to somebody, perhaps in this thread. He said that most people were capable of being rehabilitated. I asked whether that applied to the animal who killed the Elders in Buffalo. Never got a response.

 

[Consigliere]

Less victims moving forward is accomplished by removing the perpetrators of those crimes from society for long sentences/ or forever. Before they kill other people .
Which translates to the harsh sentences that you reject earlier in that post.

Unless I'm not understanding. How else would society make sure that there are fewer victims in the future without at least incarcerating the killers forever (or for long stretches)? That can be done in conjunctuon with other measures, but it has to be done.

=====

I posed a question to somebody, perhaps in this thread. He said that most people were capable of being rehabilitated. I asked whether that applied to the animal who killed the Elders in Buffalo. Never got a response.

I think the answer is that you remove the perpetrators of these crimes from society before they commit crimes.

How do you do it?

By removing or reducing the conditions that lead people to commit crime.

There’s no evidence that incarceration is anything other than a band aid. And now the Black community has a festering wound from all of the people who:

1) got locked up under harsh sentencing guidelines
2) came home after being punished but not rehabilitated
3) spread gangs and a prison mentality that has calcified in the community.

But sure. Let’s do it again.

 

[CrimsonTider]

No shyt. Your way of thinking has been tried and has already shown to not work. The fact is that crime is a symptom of poverty and lack of opportunity. Punishing crime severely does nothing to curb crime, it only encourages the degradation of society. Rehabilitation also works better to curb crime than punishment does. You're working backwards.

I feel like I'm the one with the victims in mind, and you're focusing on the criminals. If you get stabbed by a child tomorrow, having pedophiles rape your attacker isn't going to unstab you. You help the victims by trying to make sure there are less victims moving forward, not fantasizing about the ways to punish criminals.

What do you mean it hasn’t worked?

You don’t think removing someone that’s committed armed robbery from a community hasn’t worked?

Crime in America has been on a steady decline in America since the early 90s until 2020 when Covid through the courts into a backlog and mask became normalized and schools were closed

I just don't see how people can claim to care about the black community when they have such hatred for children. Who are you building up the community for if not them? Any time they encounter any bit of strife with a child, it's "fukk them kids" and they want to toss them away to the same system they complain about.

Are you calling robbing and killing “a bit of strife”?

Who does it help to downplay crime?

Less victims moving forward is accomplished by removing the perpetrators of those crimes from society for long sentences/ or forever. Before they kill other people .
Which translates to the harsh sentences that you reject earlier in that post.

Unless I'm not understanding. How else would society make sure that there are fewer victims in the future without at least incarcerating the killers forever (or for long stretches)? That can be done in conjunctuon with other measures, but it has to be done.

=====

I posed a question to somebody, perhaps in this thread. He said that most people were capable of being rehabilitated. I asked whether that applied to the animal who killed the Elders in Buffalo. Never got a response.

I feel like this is just a rationale real life take. Opposing views seem like they’re coming from an alternate reality

 

[get these nets]

I think the answer is that you remove the perpetrators of these crimes from society before they commit crimes.

How do you do it?

By removing or reducing the conditions that lead people to commit crime.

There’s no evidence that incarceration is anything other than a band aid. And now the Black community has a festering wound from all of the people who:

1) got locked up under harsh sentencing guidelines
2) came home after being punished but not rehabilitated
3) spread gangs and a prison mentality that has calcified in the community.

But sure. Let’s do it again.

With all due respect, you avoided my question about current homicides and perpetrators.

My previous post said that other measures could be done in conjunction with removing current perpetrators from society, but not without doing so.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Less victims moving forward is accomplished by removing the perpetrators of those crimes from society for long sentences/ or forever. Before they kill other people .
Which translates to the harsh sentences that you reject earlier in that post.

Unless I'm not understanding. How else would society make sure that there are fewer victims in the future without at least incarcerating the killers? That can be done in conjunctuon with other measures, but it has to be done.

=====

I posed a question to somebody, perhaps in this thread. He said that most people were capable of being rehabilitated. I asked whether that applied to the animal who killed the Elders in Buffalo. Never got a response.

It's the concept of punishment vs rehabilitation. There are lots of studies and articles out there on the subject. From everything I've read, it seems unanimously agreed upon that criminals are extremely less likely to reoffend if rehabilitative measures are taken as long as there is a focus on reintegrating back into society.

I think the piece of shyt white supremacist obviously deserves to spend a good amount of time behind bars, based on the crime he committed, but I do think through mental health treatment/counseling, opportunity for education and maybe after 20 years or so a work release program he may be able to be reintegrated back into society. If he doesn't take to the rehabilitative programs, he can continue to rot. I believe I remember reading that one of the Scandinavian countries operates this way, where sentences are not so much about time served as they are about when the prisoner is able to be properly reintegrated into society. I do believe that some people just can't be rehabilitated, and I think in those cases they should stay imprisoned.

It's hard to understand allowing someone like that to eventually walk, but it's about reexamining the purpose of prison. If you nitpick on the micro level then it's easy to take things out of context and make the system seem like its 'weak' or doesn't 'give criminals what they deserve', but if you look at it at a macro level, statistically there will be less recidivism, less imprisoning and less spending on imprisonment, which will be improvements on society as a whole.
If you just want to punish just because, then yeah, let the pedophiles rape the children, I guess... But it's not going to help the situation and will also cause more problems. If you are trying to improve society, then rehabilitation is the much better option.

This of course should be paired with trying to reduce poverty and create more opportunity to reduce the amount of criminals.

I think the answer is that you remove the perpetrators of these crimes from society before they commit crimes.

How do you do it?

By removing or reducing the conditions that lead people to commit crime.

There’s no evidence that incarceration is anything other than a band aid. And now the Black community has a festering wound from all of the people who:

1) got locked up under harsh sentencing guidelines
2) came home after being punished but not rehabilitated
3) spread gangs and a prison mentality that has calcified in the community.

But sure. Let’s do it again.

This is 100% on point.

 

[Consigliere]

With all due respect, you avoided my question about current homicides and perpetrators.

My previous post said that other measures could be done in conjunction with removing current perpetrators from society, but not without doing so.

Yes, you have to remove the criminal element from society. (I’d hope even the most liberal would feel this way.) You have to lock up the current perpetrators of these crimes. Luckily, the criminal justice system already has the means to do this. America is the number one jailer of it’s citizens. We can do this and we’re good at it. And we don’t need to create new guidelines or juice the system in anyway to do it.

The criminal justice system doesn't need us to cheerlead for it.

What we do need is a way to rehabilitate people for their eventual re-release into society. That’s where the creative thinking, resources & lobbying efforts need to be spent. Otherwise we might as well do as Liggins advocates and go full A Modest Proposal.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

What do you mean it hasn’t worked?

You don’t think removing someone that’s committed armed robbery from a community hasn’t worked?

Crime in America has been on a steady decline in America since the early 90s until 2020 when Covid through the courts into a backlog and mask became normalized and schools were closed

Are you calling robbing and killing “a bit of strife”?

Who does it help to downplay crime?

I feel like this is just a rationale real life take. Opposing views seem like they’re coming from an alternate reality

My guy, if you think the American criminal justice system is a success then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[CrimsonTider]

My guy, if you think the American criminal justice system is a success then I don't know what to tell you.

Did I say the American criminal justice was a success?

I said people that commit crimes should be punished swiftly and removed from society.

Is it not a good thing when crime is a stready downward trend?

Is it not a good thing when criminals go to jail?

 

[Micky Mikey]

Being in poverty is not a reason to kill or steal. There are millions & millions of people in poverty that have never attempted to harm anyone in anyway

Do you not care that the victims are black? All the trauma created by criminal belongs to black people?

Why do y’all trying to excuse and rationalize crime? Someone killing and robbing and harming people that are just trying co exist don’t need rehabilitation or excuses they need to be separated from society

You're right poverty and lack of opportunity is no excuse to kill or steal. But ultimately those factors must be addressed if you're goal is to reduce crime.

 

[CrimsonTider]

You're right poverty and lack of opportunity is no excuse to kill or steal. But ultimately those factors must be addressed if you're goal is to reduce crime.

Seeing as those factors won’t be address in a material way in the near future what do you do about crime?

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Did I say the American criminal justice was a success?

I said people that commit crimes should be punished swiftly and removed from society.

Is it not a good thing when crime is a stready downward trend?

Is it not a good thing when criminals go to jail?

At what cost, though?

The tolls that these policies have taken on society are extreme. It's already been noted that America is the top country for imprisoning its citizens. It has wreaked havoc on some of the most vulnerable communities, cost the government a fortune to pay for and has been rotting society from the inside, and in the case of MS-13, has even spread the rot to other countries. These imprisoned people were community members, friends, brothers, sisters, daughters, sons, etc. That means parents are being removed from their children's lives, breadwinners removed from their families, tax payers removed from their communities. Without rehabilitation the justice system dooms most of these people to a cycle of imprisonment that is completely counter to the goal of improving society.

It's trading one problem for many others, without ever dealing with the root of the issue.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Seeing as those factors won’t be address in a material way in the near future what do you do about crime?

You address the factors in a material way.

The answer is never going to be 'lock them up and throw away the key' or 'let pedophiles rape children who commit crimes.'