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TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Outside of three-star wide receiver Maurice Goolsby, who opted to sign a pro baseball deal instead, the entire 2019 recruiting class for Florida State has enrolled and is on campus. While the class includes four transfers and junior college offensive tackle Jay Williams, this piece will focus on the 19 freshmen.
Last season, the Seminoles had eight freshman who didn’t redshirt and two — safety Jaiden Lars-Woodbey and cornerback Asante Samuel Jr. — who emerged as starters by the end of the season. With just 30 scholarship upperclassmen on the 2019 roster, this year’s crop of freshmen should have the same chance to see the field immediately.
Four freshmen enrolled early and participated in spring practice: four-star defensive backs Akeem Dent (pictured above) and Raymond Woodie III, four-star linebacker Jaleel McRae and three-star defensive tackle Tru Thompson. Each began to learn the system, got valuable experience and will have a leg up on their peers. That said, they won’t be the only freshmen who’ll compete for playing time.
Here’s a look at where each freshman stands with preseason camp on the horizon. One thing to keep in mind is that just because a player is listed as likely to redshirt doesn’t mean they won’t play at all. Players are allowed to appear in up to four games and maintain their redshirt. FSU had six freshmen take this route in 2018.
Locks to play (5)
Note: Click the names of each player to read in-depth features by The Athletic on their respective journeys to Florida State.
CB/S Akeem Dent (6 feet 1, 182 pounds): Dent was everywhere in the spring, seemingly making at least one play in every practice that was open to the media. He quickly became entrenched as the second-team field safety, which he played during his two seasons at Palm Beach Central High. While his natural position is cornerback, he possesses the physicality and build required to play safety. He’s an absolute ballhawk, and what impressed the coaching staff the most were his instincts, ability to go off-script and adjust when needed.
“He’s a football player,” coach Willie Taggart said of Dent in March. “He’s pretty good. He’s smart, he understands the game. You can tell him to play a certain coverage and he plays it like he’s supposed to. He just don’t go out there and just do the lines that he saw in the playbook.”
G Dontae Lucas (6-3, 330): Of all the incoming freshmen, it’s Lucas who has the potential to make the biggest impact. He’s the best prospect at what was its worst position group on the roster last season. While he had some struggles this spring, like any freshman offensive lineman, he looked up to the task of helping out along the line.
“Dontae loves football,” junior guard Mike Arnold said in April. “He loves football. That gives everyone a push to want to do it more because he’s a freshman coming in like that. That’s pretty good. What makes him different is everyone wants to come in and play, but he’s the type of guy that’ll say, ‘Coach, I messed up; let me do it again.’ He wants to learn the game. That’s a standout right there for a freshman coming in.”
Lucas is a people-mover and already has the size to thrive in the trenches. He was able to hold his own against everyone in 1-on-1 and 11-on-11 drills, including the likes of junior defensive tackle Marvin Wilson. If anything, he may need to lose some weight to improve his conditioning. In the spring, it became clear that coaches didn’t want to rush his development. Though senior guard Cole Minshew missed spring practice as he continued to recover from offseason neck surgery, Lucas worked with the second team. Minshew, Arnold and sophomore Brady Scott are ahead of him at guard for now, but he’ll undoubtedly be in the rotation in the fall.
Dontae Lucas looked physically ready to play during spring ball. His playing time likely depends on how the upperclassmen above him on the depth chart perform. (Courtesy of Dontae Lucas)
LB Jaleel McRae (6-2, 230): To start the spring, McRae was fighting just to get third-team reps. By the spring game, he was starting at Mike linebacker.
“He takes coaching, he’s learning and he’s a listener,” senior linebacker Dontavious Jackson said of McRae in March. “I love the fact that he listens, you feel me? Even to the older guys. An older guy tells him something and he takes it under the chin, ‘I got you, bro, let’s do it.’ He’ll go out there and try to perfect it.”
He’s far from perfect, but McRae quickly became a playmaker against both the run and pass. During Florida State’s first scrimmage in March, he had two interceptions and took one back for a touchdown. Although he dropped a couple of potential picks in the spring game, he finished with 11 tackles.
“Jaleel McRae is having one heck of a spring for us and that’s good to see,” Taggart said in March. “I think he has great football awareness, and he’s hardly ever out of position, and it allows him to make the plays that he’s making. It’s good to see a young guy that smart and have the awareness that he has from a football standpoint.”
McRae will compete with junior Emmett Rice for the starting spot, but as of now, he looks to be the freshman most likely to start in Week 1.
S Raymond Woodie III (6-0, 192): The son of linebackers coach Raymond Woodie Jr., Woodie III didn’t receive a ton of buzz throughout the recruitment process. And even when he became the second-team boundary safety and played well this spring, most of the attention was on Dent. Then, just before the spring game, he moved past junior Cyrus Fagan to become the starter.
“I think Ray Woodie III has done some really good things for us and I’m really excited about him,” Taggart said after the spring game. “I mean, he’s the sleeper no one really talks about. But that’s another kid that’s always around the ball and making plays.”
Woodie III doesn’t have one singular trait that stands out, but he’s solid all around and technically sound for someone his age. Lars-Woodbey didn’t take contact in spring practice after offseason shoulder surgery, but he’s moving to boundary safety after starting all 12 games at Star linebacker last season. He’ll likely start over Woodie III once he’s healthy, but the freshman would be the top backup.
CB Travis Jay (6-2, 176): Although he didn’t enroll early, Jay easily is one of FSU’s most talented freshmen. Much like Dent, he has the size, speed and ability to play either cornerback or safety. He stood out as a dual-threat quarterback and basketball player in his time at Madison County High. Whether it’s in the secondary, on special teams or both, it’ll be difficult to keep him off the field.
Taggart didn’t hide his excitement over Jay during his National Signing Day news conference in February, calling him “a phenomenal football player.”
In the running to play (4)
S Brendan Gant (6-1, 193): Gant is a one-time Alabama commitment most-known for his big hits and tenacity. During a conversation with The Athletic, he expressed a good amount of confidence, too.
“Not being cocky or nothing, but I just feel like where I’m at now, I’m kind of ahead of a lot of other people,” Gant said. “A lot of my stuff is natural, so once I get in that system and learn the things they know, I can be a fit.”
While Gant may not be worried about missing spring practice, it allowed Dent and Woodie III to separate themselves. He stands as the fifth or sixth safety on the roster right now and has some ground to make up to enter the rotation.
If Quashon Fuller shows he can be a consistent pass rusher, he may end up seeing more time than expected. (Courtesy of Quashon Fuller)
DE Quashon Fuller (6-3, 275):Although he primarily was a strongside, run-stopping defensive end at Lehigh High, near Fort Myers, the Seminoles are going to explore every option they have to generate a pass rush with the departure of first-rounder Brian Burns. If Fuller can adapt to the bigger bodies he’ll face at the FBS level, he could find himself with a chance to contribute in Year 1.
LB Kalen DeLoach (6-0, 206): DeLoach could wind up being a victim of circumstance when it comes to carving out a role. Savannah (Ga.) Islands High follows a block schedule in which students take the same classes for the entire year, so he wasn’t able to enroll early. He’s a strong fit for the Star linebacker role, given his mobility and pass defense skills, but he seems likely to be behind junior Hamsah Nasirildeen and redshirt freshman Amari Gainer on the depth chart. Given his skills, though, he’s a strong candidate to play on special teams.
DE Curtis Fann Jr. (6-1, 252): Fann Jr. could be in for a bit of a culture shock after growing up in Stillmore, Ga., a town of roughly 500 people. In his time at Emanuel County Institute, he was a physical strongside end. He takes pride in being a run-stopper. He needs to continue to work on his pass-rushing skills, hips and lower-body strength.
Redshirt candidates (10)
DT Tru Thompson (6-0, 330):Thompson recovered nicely from the torn labrum surgery that limited him during his senior season at Loganville (Ga.) Grayson, in the Atlanta suburbs, and was full-contact throughout spring practice. He attempts to model his game after Los Angeles Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald, who was similarly undersized and overlooked headed into college. Thompson was brought along slowly during the spring and largely limited to individual or 1-on-1 drills. He’ll be able to ramp things up a notch in preseason camp, but barring injuries, there won’t be any need to rush him onto the field.
Renardo Green was a playmaker on one of the best high school defenses in Florida last season. But his lack of bulk could limit his playing time this fall. (Courtesy of Renardo Green)
CB Renardo Green (6-0, 173 pounds):Besides being a part of a deep secondary, the biggest deterrent to playing time for Green is his slight frame. He played at just 165 pounds during his senior year at Wekiva High in the Orlando area, but the Seminoles list him as having gained weight since then. Despite his size, he’s far from afraid of contact and plays with a chip on his shoulder. Once he fills out his frame, he has promise as a long-term option on both defense and special teams. In addition to starting at cornerback, he played receiver, returned punts and kickoffs and played on the punt and kickoff coverage teams on one of the best high school teams in Florida last season. It might be wise for all parties involved to preserve a season of eligibility so he can put that versatility on display later on.
DE Derrick McLendon Jr. (6-3, 233):McLendon Jr., who launched his apparel line “FOFO-40” earlier this year, has a passion for fashion and hitting people. He played weakside end at Tucker (Ga.) High, near Atlanta, which uses a 3-4 defense. FSU began to implement a hybrid 3-4 front during the spring , and he should be comfortable with that as a result. The aggressiveness required to excel in the 3-4 also makes him a strong fit for the base 4-3 defense. He’s probably the best pass rusher and most versatile of the freshman ends, but he’s also the smallest. He’ll likely need a year to continue to develop physically.
OT Darius Washington (6-4, 285):There isn’t a position on the roster with more question marks than offensive tackle, but Taggart has shown a hesitancy to throw true freshmen linemen into the fire. Tackles Jalen Goss and Chaz Neal never saw the field as freshmen last season despite the line’s immense struggles. It’s hard to imagine tackle play getting any worse than it was in 2018, which makes a freshman getting time unlikely. Given that Washington has played offensive line for only two years, he’ll almost assuredly spend the season continuing to learn the position.
OT Ira Henry III (6-5, 320): Although Henry III has much more experience playing offensive line and has a better physical profile than Washington, he’s also likely to redshirt for many of the same reasons. He started at guard and tackle during his time at St. Louis Trinity Catholic, and could wind up playing either in the future.
Last season, the Seminoles had eight freshman who didn’t redshirt and two — safety Jaiden Lars-Woodbey and cornerback Asante Samuel Jr. — who emerged as starters by the end of the season. With just 30 scholarship upperclassmen on the 2019 roster, this year’s crop of freshmen should have the same chance to see the field immediately.
Four freshmen enrolled early and participated in spring practice: four-star defensive backs Akeem Dent (pictured above) and Raymond Woodie III, four-star linebacker Jaleel McRae and three-star defensive tackle Tru Thompson. Each began to learn the system, got valuable experience and will have a leg up on their peers. That said, they won’t be the only freshmen who’ll compete for playing time.
Here’s a look at where each freshman stands with preseason camp on the horizon. One thing to keep in mind is that just because a player is listed as likely to redshirt doesn’t mean they won’t play at all. Players are allowed to appear in up to four games and maintain their redshirt. FSU had six freshmen take this route in 2018.
Locks to play (5)
Note: Click the names of each player to read in-depth features by The Athletic on their respective journeys to Florida State.
CB/S Akeem Dent (6 feet 1, 182 pounds): Dent was everywhere in the spring, seemingly making at least one play in every practice that was open to the media. He quickly became entrenched as the second-team field safety, which he played during his two seasons at Palm Beach Central High. While his natural position is cornerback, he possesses the physicality and build required to play safety. He’s an absolute ballhawk, and what impressed the coaching staff the most were his instincts, ability to go off-script and adjust when needed.
“He’s a football player,” coach Willie Taggart said of Dent in March. “He’s pretty good. He’s smart, he understands the game. You can tell him to play a certain coverage and he plays it like he’s supposed to. He just don’t go out there and just do the lines that he saw in the playbook.”
G Dontae Lucas (6-3, 330): Of all the incoming freshmen, it’s Lucas who has the potential to make the biggest impact. He’s the best prospect at what was its worst position group on the roster last season. While he had some struggles this spring, like any freshman offensive lineman, he looked up to the task of helping out along the line.
“Dontae loves football,” junior guard Mike Arnold said in April. “He loves football. That gives everyone a push to want to do it more because he’s a freshman coming in like that. That’s pretty good. What makes him different is everyone wants to come in and play, but he’s the type of guy that’ll say, ‘Coach, I messed up; let me do it again.’ He wants to learn the game. That’s a standout right there for a freshman coming in.”
Lucas is a people-mover and already has the size to thrive in the trenches. He was able to hold his own against everyone in 1-on-1 and 11-on-11 drills, including the likes of junior defensive tackle Marvin Wilson. If anything, he may need to lose some weight to improve his conditioning. In the spring, it became clear that coaches didn’t want to rush his development. Though senior guard Cole Minshew missed spring practice as he continued to recover from offseason neck surgery, Lucas worked with the second team. Minshew, Arnold and sophomore Brady Scott are ahead of him at guard for now, but he’ll undoubtedly be in the rotation in the fall.
Dontae Lucas looked physically ready to play during spring ball. His playing time likely depends on how the upperclassmen above him on the depth chart perform. (Courtesy of Dontae Lucas)
LB Jaleel McRae (6-2, 230): To start the spring, McRae was fighting just to get third-team reps. By the spring game, he was starting at Mike linebacker.
“He takes coaching, he’s learning and he’s a listener,” senior linebacker Dontavious Jackson said of McRae in March. “I love the fact that he listens, you feel me? Even to the older guys. An older guy tells him something and he takes it under the chin, ‘I got you, bro, let’s do it.’ He’ll go out there and try to perfect it.”
He’s far from perfect, but McRae quickly became a playmaker against both the run and pass. During Florida State’s first scrimmage in March, he had two interceptions and took one back for a touchdown. Although he dropped a couple of potential picks in the spring game, he finished with 11 tackles.
“Jaleel McRae is having one heck of a spring for us and that’s good to see,” Taggart said in March. “I think he has great football awareness, and he’s hardly ever out of position, and it allows him to make the plays that he’s making. It’s good to see a young guy that smart and have the awareness that he has from a football standpoint.”
McRae will compete with junior Emmett Rice for the starting spot, but as of now, he looks to be the freshman most likely to start in Week 1.
S Raymond Woodie III (6-0, 192): The son of linebackers coach Raymond Woodie Jr., Woodie III didn’t receive a ton of buzz throughout the recruitment process. And even when he became the second-team boundary safety and played well this spring, most of the attention was on Dent. Then, just before the spring game, he moved past junior Cyrus Fagan to become the starter.
“I think Ray Woodie III has done some really good things for us and I’m really excited about him,” Taggart said after the spring game. “I mean, he’s the sleeper no one really talks about. But that’s another kid that’s always around the ball and making plays.”
Woodie III doesn’t have one singular trait that stands out, but he’s solid all around and technically sound for someone his age. Lars-Woodbey didn’t take contact in spring practice after offseason shoulder surgery, but he’s moving to boundary safety after starting all 12 games at Star linebacker last season. He’ll likely start over Woodie III once he’s healthy, but the freshman would be the top backup.
CB Travis Jay (6-2, 176): Although he didn’t enroll early, Jay easily is one of FSU’s most talented freshmen. Much like Dent, he has the size, speed and ability to play either cornerback or safety. He stood out as a dual-threat quarterback and basketball player in his time at Madison County High. Whether it’s in the secondary, on special teams or both, it’ll be difficult to keep him off the field.
Taggart didn’t hide his excitement over Jay during his National Signing Day news conference in February, calling him “a phenomenal football player.”
In the running to play (4)
S Brendan Gant (6-1, 193): Gant is a one-time Alabama commitment most-known for his big hits and tenacity. During a conversation with The Athletic, he expressed a good amount of confidence, too.
“Not being cocky or nothing, but I just feel like where I’m at now, I’m kind of ahead of a lot of other people,” Gant said. “A lot of my stuff is natural, so once I get in that system and learn the things they know, I can be a fit.”
While Gant may not be worried about missing spring practice, it allowed Dent and Woodie III to separate themselves. He stands as the fifth or sixth safety on the roster right now and has some ground to make up to enter the rotation.
If Quashon Fuller shows he can be a consistent pass rusher, he may end up seeing more time than expected. (Courtesy of Quashon Fuller)
DE Quashon Fuller (6-3, 275):Although he primarily was a strongside, run-stopping defensive end at Lehigh High, near Fort Myers, the Seminoles are going to explore every option they have to generate a pass rush with the departure of first-rounder Brian Burns. If Fuller can adapt to the bigger bodies he’ll face at the FBS level, he could find himself with a chance to contribute in Year 1.
LB Kalen DeLoach (6-0, 206): DeLoach could wind up being a victim of circumstance when it comes to carving out a role. Savannah (Ga.) Islands High follows a block schedule in which students take the same classes for the entire year, so he wasn’t able to enroll early. He’s a strong fit for the Star linebacker role, given his mobility and pass defense skills, but he seems likely to be behind junior Hamsah Nasirildeen and redshirt freshman Amari Gainer on the depth chart. Given his skills, though, he’s a strong candidate to play on special teams.
DE Curtis Fann Jr. (6-1, 252): Fann Jr. could be in for a bit of a culture shock after growing up in Stillmore, Ga., a town of roughly 500 people. In his time at Emanuel County Institute, he was a physical strongside end. He takes pride in being a run-stopper. He needs to continue to work on his pass-rushing skills, hips and lower-body strength.
Redshirt candidates (10)
DT Tru Thompson (6-0, 330):Thompson recovered nicely from the torn labrum surgery that limited him during his senior season at Loganville (Ga.) Grayson, in the Atlanta suburbs, and was full-contact throughout spring practice. He attempts to model his game after Los Angeles Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald, who was similarly undersized and overlooked headed into college. Thompson was brought along slowly during the spring and largely limited to individual or 1-on-1 drills. He’ll be able to ramp things up a notch in preseason camp, but barring injuries, there won’t be any need to rush him onto the field.
Renardo Green was a playmaker on one of the best high school defenses in Florida last season. But his lack of bulk could limit his playing time this fall. (Courtesy of Renardo Green)
CB Renardo Green (6-0, 173 pounds):Besides being a part of a deep secondary, the biggest deterrent to playing time for Green is his slight frame. He played at just 165 pounds during his senior year at Wekiva High in the Orlando area, but the Seminoles list him as having gained weight since then. Despite his size, he’s far from afraid of contact and plays with a chip on his shoulder. Once he fills out his frame, he has promise as a long-term option on both defense and special teams. In addition to starting at cornerback, he played receiver, returned punts and kickoffs and played on the punt and kickoff coverage teams on one of the best high school teams in Florida last season. It might be wise for all parties involved to preserve a season of eligibility so he can put that versatility on display later on.
DE Derrick McLendon Jr. (6-3, 233):McLendon Jr., who launched his apparel line “FOFO-40” earlier this year, has a passion for fashion and hitting people. He played weakside end at Tucker (Ga.) High, near Atlanta, which uses a 3-4 defense. FSU began to implement a hybrid 3-4 front during the spring , and he should be comfortable with that as a result. The aggressiveness required to excel in the 3-4 also makes him a strong fit for the base 4-3 defense. He’s probably the best pass rusher and most versatile of the freshman ends, but he’s also the smallest. He’ll likely need a year to continue to develop physically.
OT Darius Washington (6-4, 285):There isn’t a position on the roster with more question marks than offensive tackle, but Taggart has shown a hesitancy to throw true freshmen linemen into the fire. Tackles Jalen Goss and Chaz Neal never saw the field as freshmen last season despite the line’s immense struggles. It’s hard to imagine tackle play getting any worse than it was in 2018, which makes a freshman getting time unlikely. Given that Washington has played offensive line for only two years, he’ll almost assuredly spend the season continuing to learn the position.
OT Ira Henry III (6-5, 320): Although Henry III has much more experience playing offensive line and has a better physical profile than Washington, he’s also likely to redshirt for many of the same reasons. He started at guard and tackle during his time at St. Louis Trinity Catholic, and could wind up playing either in the future.
Part two
CB Jarvis Brownlee (5-11, 175): The ‘Noles flipped Brownlee from Miami during the early signing period. Brownlee, from Miami Carol City, is the only under-6-foot defensive back signed by FSU. He has long arms that allow him to excel in press and man coverages. He’ll need to gain weight and become better in looser, zone coverages before he’s ready to play at the college level.
DT Malcolm Ray (6-2, 247): Ray and Brownlee were high school teammates, and just as with his teammate, Florida State convinced Ray to flip from another school (USF). Ray has great strength but remains lean. He’s athletic, has bend and can quickly change direction. While he played end in high school and the Seminoles initially told him they saw him at boundary end, they now have him listed at tackle. Carol City coach Greg Moss believes Ray fits best as a 3-technique working on the interior, and it seems the coaching staff in Tallahassee believes the same. Especially in the 3-4 looks, Ray could wind up playing both. The Seminoles are stacked at tackle, so there’s little need for Ray right now.
LB Kevon Glenn (6-1, 220): FSU didn’t start recruiting Glenn until early December, but still landed him during the early signing period. He impressed Woodie Jr. with his film study habits and high football IQ. He played inside linebacker in Hampton (Ga.) Dutchtown’s 4-2-5 scheme, but spent his first two years in high school on the outside. While linebacker was a weakness for the ‘Noles in 2018, it should be one of the deepest positions on the roster this season. Until Jackson and some of the older members of the rotation move on, there isn’t a clear path for Glenn to find significant playing time.
C Maurice Smith (6-2, 287): Smith didn’t start playing football until middle school, so that he was a three-year starter at perennial powerhouse Miami Central is a testament to his natural ability and work ethic. He’s played every position on the offensive line, and learned how to snap and started at center as a senior. FSU will need a new center whenever junior Baveon Johnson moves on, but for now Smith seems likely to focus on picking up the intricacies of the position and gaining weight.
K Ryan Fitzgerald (6-0, 185): Ideally, Fitzgerald won’t play this season. But if senior kicker Ricky Aguayo continues to struggle, Taggart’s hand may be forced. It’s rare that a team has two scholarship kickers at once, which is both a sign of confidence in Fitzgerald and concern about Aguayo. Fitzgerald has every intention of competing and told The Athletic that he’s “excited to see what happens.”
(Top photo of Akeem Dent: Logan Stanford / Icon Sportswire via Getty Images)
DT Malcolm Ray (6-2, 247): Ray and Brownlee were high school teammates, and just as with his teammate, Florida State convinced Ray to flip from another school (USF). Ray has great strength but remains lean. He’s athletic, has bend and can quickly change direction. While he played end in high school and the Seminoles initially told him they saw him at boundary end, they now have him listed at tackle. Carol City coach Greg Moss believes Ray fits best as a 3-technique working on the interior, and it seems the coaching staff in Tallahassee believes the same. Especially in the 3-4 looks, Ray could wind up playing both. The Seminoles are stacked at tackle, so there’s little need for Ray right now.
LB Kevon Glenn (6-1, 220): FSU didn’t start recruiting Glenn until early December, but still landed him during the early signing period. He impressed Woodie Jr. with his film study habits and high football IQ. He played inside linebacker in Hampton (Ga.) Dutchtown’s 4-2-5 scheme, but spent his first two years in high school on the outside. While linebacker was a weakness for the ‘Noles in 2018, it should be one of the deepest positions on the roster this season. Until Jackson and some of the older members of the rotation move on, there isn’t a clear path for Glenn to find significant playing time.
C Maurice Smith (6-2, 287): Smith didn’t start playing football until middle school, so that he was a three-year starter at perennial powerhouse Miami Central is a testament to his natural ability and work ethic. He’s played every position on the offensive line, and learned how to snap and started at center as a senior. FSU will need a new center whenever junior Baveon Johnson moves on, but for now Smith seems likely to focus on picking up the intricacies of the position and gaining weight.
K Ryan Fitzgerald (6-0, 185): Ideally, Fitzgerald won’t play this season. But if senior kicker Ricky Aguayo continues to struggle, Taggart’s hand may be forced. It’s rare that a team has two scholarship kickers at once, which is both a sign of confidence in Fitzgerald and concern about Aguayo. Fitzgerald has every intention of competing and told The Athletic that he’s “excited to see what happens.”
(Top photo of Akeem Dent: Logan Stanford / Icon Sportswire via Getty Images)
Lucky_Lefty
Dreams Are Colder Than Death...
Thanks fam....i stopped being a cheap mf and just paid for a sub. Lot of long form but very well done
DonKnock
KPJ Gonna Save Us
It wasn’t much to look at when it started.
The Thunder scored 87 points in their opening-night loss to the Bucks back in 2008, the regular-season debut of the new Oklahoma City franchise. Kevin Durant started and Russell Westbrook didn’t. James Harden was a sophomore at Arizona State.
But there’s a through line from that beginning to the end of this most recent season, a common thread that ran through four Western Conference finals appearances and a 2012 trip to the NBA Finals, two Most Valuable Players and 538 regular-season wins.
The string that tied the Thunder’s past to its present snapped last Friday, when the franchise agreed to trade Westbrook — the last player on the 2008-09 team who was still in Thunder blue — to the Houston Rockets.
It marked the end of a chapter for Oklahoma City basketball, an 11-year era of remarkable success that lacked only an NBA title. And it signaled a new beginning for a franchise that — thanks to the return on trades of Westbrook, Paul George and Jerami Grant — begins its rebuild with an unprecedented haul of future draft picks.
It’s a good time to reflect back on Westbrook and the Thunder, and we have a panel that was made for it.
The Athletic didn’t exist until 2016 and didn’t have a writer based in Oklahoma City until last fall. But our staff has a thread, too, that extends to opening night in 2008. Four of The Athletic staffers have covered the Thunder, from that fist game to the most recent:
Dawson: Darnell, let’s start with you. You covered Westbrook longer than anyone, and at a formative time in his career, and you’ve written extensively about him recently. What’s your initial reaction to this parting of ways, and what it means for the Thunder to lose the last remaining player connection to their first days in Oklahoma City?
Mayberry: My initial reaction? It was time. The clean break is a testament to that. Rarely does a marriage of this magnitude end with all parties walking away relatively content. But that’s what we’ve seen with this blockbuster. The players, teams and respective fan bases involved are all OK with this for reasons that beat uglier realities.
For as beloved as Westbrook is and will forever be in Oklahoma, the Thunder had plateaued with him as their best player. Three consecutive first-round flameouts and a luxury tax bill that was growing more exorbitant by the year was never Sam Presti’s vision of sustained success. And so this becomes the final thud of the Thunder’s fall from grace. But it was one heck of a run. With that chapter now closed, Oklahoma City sits in an almost pristine position to build another championship window.
I just can’t believe Westbrook went to Houston. Do you know how many Rockets fans probably had to run to their social media accounts to start deleting all those years of hate? Anthony, I remember you loved how heated that Thunder-Rockets rivalry became. Can you believe Russ now will be wearing Rockets red?
Slater: Yeah. Would’ve sounded strange to me a half-decade ago, but that’s the new NBA. My sensibilities were shocked to a point of no return at 2016 Media Day in Oakland: Kevin Durant dribbling in a Warriors jersey just a couple months after that conference finals war. But it’s like drinking alcohol as you age. Your tolerance builds. I just watched Serge Ibaka in Raptors purple in the Finals, while Kendrick Perkins served as a critical analyst on the sidelines. Thabo Sefolasha’s been on the Hawks and Jazz. Nick Collison’s career is buried. Reggie Jackson has been a contract albatross in Detroit for years. Derek Fisher is a WNBA coach. The door to that Thunder era has been closed for years. Westbrook on the Rockets is just a loud deadbolt, locking it away forever.
My question: Do Thunder fans root for the Rockets next season?
Dawson: Westbrook fans — and you guys know there are many of them — absolutely will pull for Houston. Among die-hard Thunder fans I expect there to be a split. Some will root for Harden and Westbrook to win a title, or at least be in the mix for one. That segment of the fan base will see those two as “their” guys, and they’ll be happy with any success they have. Other fans, I suspect, will find it hard to stomach that Westbrook and Harden are winning together in a place other than Oklahoma City. And not just that, but playing in front of a fan base that bashed Westbrook and tried routinely to belittle the validity of his MVP chase in 2017. Fred, you and I both covered the contentious playoff series between these teams that year, and if it was hard to imagine this reunion a week ago, it was almost impossible then.
Katz: The Westbrook dynamic with Harden is going to be fascinating on the court. Russ will have to learn how to move off the ball and all those sorts of things (and Harden will have to play differently, too, by the way), but I’m excited by how the Rockets fanbase will handle all of this. I guess the most recent basketball equivalent we have is when LeBron went to Los Angeles — considering all the leftover Kobe diehards who are still around and spent years insisting that James was somewhere between overrated and a “choker” compared to Bryant’s whatever-you-call-it. But even that situation has differences, because James and Bryant were never teammates.
I’m going to reach all the way back to my Yankees fandom to find the analogy here: This seriously reminds me of when the Yankees traded for Alex Rodriguez in 2004. He was, without question, the superior shortstop and hitter to Derek Jeter. But he was the one who had to change positions upon joining the team. He was the one who the fanbase quickly maligned because it had spent years arguing Jeter was the winner and the better player. Mass groups of people are too stubborn to change their minds so quickly. If the Rockets take off, Westbrook can change his reputation. But if they lose in the first round of the playoffs, I wonder which guy Houston is going to pin the blame on…
Dawson: That makes me think about the larger issue of Westbrook with a new franchise. There’s an impression, some of it fair, that the Thunder catered to him too much, that too much of the team and franchise operated on his whims. In the three seasons that I’ve been here, certainly, Westbrook was allowed to dictate the team’s media policies in ways most players can’t. He effectively eliminated pregame locker room interviews by creating an atmosphere in which other players seemed uncomfortable doing them. There’s going to be change on both sides of this, and we’ll deal with how things might change for the Thunder. But for starters, how do we think Westbrook will adapt to playing in an organization where in theory he won’t be the shot-caller?
Katz: As someone who covered Westbrook during the years he became the solo star in OKC, I am more intrigued to see how that part of this plays out than anything else. The Thunder have always very intentionally catered to their stars. Once Durant left, they turned the organization over to Westbrook in a way few other franchises had done with a player. LeBron in Cleveland might be the only other example of one individual having as much sway with a team. It was no secret. The man literally made “Now I do what I want” the slogan of his MVP season. I always wondered how much of Westbrook staying in Oklahoma City had to do with that, considering no other place was going to give him as much freedom. And I think that translates to both on- and off-court lifestyle.
The offensive burden will naturally lessen in Houston, but there are quirks beyond Westbrook’s scoring chops which will have to, as well — like in those moments when his coach draws up a play after a timeout and he decides to do his own thing, regardless of what’s on the clipboard. He’s in the past decided how long the Thunder stay in certain cities on the road. This was very much his team. To be clear, he’s not the only NBA star in history to receive such treatment. But when the organization isn’t solely his, when there’s another MVP right next to him who was there first, there is going to have to be some adjustment. Westbrook is a smart guy. There’s no question, he knows his experience with the Rockets will be different. And he chose Houston. He may be completely fine with change if it means a better chance at a ring. But I’m still curious to see how it plays out.
Mayberry: That’s an important fact to remember in all this: Westbrook chose Houston. When all the signs pointed to Miami, the Rockets rescued Russ from the wrath of Pat Riley. That would have been real theater, Westbrook and Riley trying to coexist. The Rockets have a far more laid back culture than the rigid Heat. LeBron James couldn’t even have his way in Miami. Westbrook certainly would not have. In Houston, however, he at least has a chance to have a say in the day-to-day operations. It won’t be what Westbrook is used to, but the Rockets also won’t be as much of a shock to his system as Miami would have been.
I’m more intrigued by the on-court fit. There seems to be an expectation — or maybe it’s only the Rockets banking on this — Westbrook will get to Houston and transform his game just because he’s friends with Harden. That feels far fetched. Harden’s presence should help settle Westbrook, if in no other way than to take his thumb off of every little thing. But Westbrook also possesses one of the NBA’s most dominant personalities. He’s more alpha male than Harden, and, yes, that will matter in moments when truth is required. Westbrook won’t walk into Harden’s house a markedly better shooter, defender (although this presents a real opportunity) or decision-maker. The same things in Westbrook’s game that wowed and worried Harden when they were teammates a decade ago are still present today.
It helps that Westbrook and Harden are friends. But now they’ve become business partners. Can they now learn to navigate creative tension?
Dawson: If there’s any reason for optimism that Westbrook will change, I think it’s the change of scenery. As Fred said, he was given such free run of the Thunder organization, and though he tweaked his game to accommodate Paul George — and to a lesser extent, Carmelo Anthony — I don’t know that he ever could have made wholesale changes to his approach on or off the court in Oklahoma City.
It would have been nearly impossible for a new coach to take over and say, for example, that he was going to limit shootarounds or for a new head of PR to change the media policies. Westbrook’s routines were established here, and he was dedicated to them. In Houston, there’s a different set of norms, and to some extent he’ll have to adapt to them. The Rockets do things a their way, and that’s unlikely to change significantly for a single player, even as big a personality as Westbrook. I think it’ll be easier for him to adapt in a setting where different ground rules already exist than it would have been for him to accept someone trying to change the routine in a place where he was so crucial to creating it.
The Thunder scored 87 points in their opening-night loss to the Bucks back in 2008, the regular-season debut of the new Oklahoma City franchise. Kevin Durant started and Russell Westbrook didn’t. James Harden was a sophomore at Arizona State.
But there’s a through line from that beginning to the end of this most recent season, a common thread that ran through four Western Conference finals appearances and a 2012 trip to the NBA Finals, two Most Valuable Players and 538 regular-season wins.
The string that tied the Thunder’s past to its present snapped last Friday, when the franchise agreed to trade Westbrook — the last player on the 2008-09 team who was still in Thunder blue — to the Houston Rockets.
It marked the end of a chapter for Oklahoma City basketball, an 11-year era of remarkable success that lacked only an NBA title. And it signaled a new beginning for a franchise that — thanks to the return on trades of Westbrook, Paul George and Jerami Grant — begins its rebuild with an unprecedented haul of future draft picks.
It’s a good time to reflect back on Westbrook and the Thunder, and we have a panel that was made for it.
The Athletic didn’t exist until 2016 and didn’t have a writer based in Oklahoma City until last fall. But our staff has a thread, too, that extends to opening night in 2008. Four of The Athletic staffers have covered the Thunder, from that fist game to the most recent:
- Darnell Mayberry, our Chicago Bulls beat writer, wrote about the Thunder as a beat writer at The Oklahoman from 2008 to 2015, then served as the paper’s assistant sports editor, coordinating Thunder coverage.
- Anthony Slater, who now covers the Warriors, was the Thunder beat writer at The Oklahoman from 2012 to 2016.
- Fred Katz was the Norman Transcript’s Thunder beat writer from 2016 to 2018. He now covers the Wizards.
- Brett Dawson is The Athletic’s current Thunder beat writer, a position he held at The Oklahoman from 2016-18.
Dawson: Darnell, let’s start with you. You covered Westbrook longer than anyone, and at a formative time in his career, and you’ve written extensively about him recently. What’s your initial reaction to this parting of ways, and what it means for the Thunder to lose the last remaining player connection to their first days in Oklahoma City?
Mayberry: My initial reaction? It was time. The clean break is a testament to that. Rarely does a marriage of this magnitude end with all parties walking away relatively content. But that’s what we’ve seen with this blockbuster. The players, teams and respective fan bases involved are all OK with this for reasons that beat uglier realities.
For as beloved as Westbrook is and will forever be in Oklahoma, the Thunder had plateaued with him as their best player. Three consecutive first-round flameouts and a luxury tax bill that was growing more exorbitant by the year was never Sam Presti’s vision of sustained success. And so this becomes the final thud of the Thunder’s fall from grace. But it was one heck of a run. With that chapter now closed, Oklahoma City sits in an almost pristine position to build another championship window.
I just can’t believe Westbrook went to Houston. Do you know how many Rockets fans probably had to run to their social media accounts to start deleting all those years of hate? Anthony, I remember you loved how heated that Thunder-Rockets rivalry became. Can you believe Russ now will be wearing Rockets red?
Slater: Yeah. Would’ve sounded strange to me a half-decade ago, but that’s the new NBA. My sensibilities were shocked to a point of no return at 2016 Media Day in Oakland: Kevin Durant dribbling in a Warriors jersey just a couple months after that conference finals war. But it’s like drinking alcohol as you age. Your tolerance builds. I just watched Serge Ibaka in Raptors purple in the Finals, while Kendrick Perkins served as a critical analyst on the sidelines. Thabo Sefolasha’s been on the Hawks and Jazz. Nick Collison’s career is buried. Reggie Jackson has been a contract albatross in Detroit for years. Derek Fisher is a WNBA coach. The door to that Thunder era has been closed for years. Westbrook on the Rockets is just a loud deadbolt, locking it away forever.
My question: Do Thunder fans root for the Rockets next season?
Dawson: Westbrook fans — and you guys know there are many of them — absolutely will pull for Houston. Among die-hard Thunder fans I expect there to be a split. Some will root for Harden and Westbrook to win a title, or at least be in the mix for one. That segment of the fan base will see those two as “their” guys, and they’ll be happy with any success they have. Other fans, I suspect, will find it hard to stomach that Westbrook and Harden are winning together in a place other than Oklahoma City. And not just that, but playing in front of a fan base that bashed Westbrook and tried routinely to belittle the validity of his MVP chase in 2017. Fred, you and I both covered the contentious playoff series between these teams that year, and if it was hard to imagine this reunion a week ago, it was almost impossible then.
Katz: The Westbrook dynamic with Harden is going to be fascinating on the court. Russ will have to learn how to move off the ball and all those sorts of things (and Harden will have to play differently, too, by the way), but I’m excited by how the Rockets fanbase will handle all of this. I guess the most recent basketball equivalent we have is when LeBron went to Los Angeles — considering all the leftover Kobe diehards who are still around and spent years insisting that James was somewhere between overrated and a “choker” compared to Bryant’s whatever-you-call-it. But even that situation has differences, because James and Bryant were never teammates.
I’m going to reach all the way back to my Yankees fandom to find the analogy here: This seriously reminds me of when the Yankees traded for Alex Rodriguez in 2004. He was, without question, the superior shortstop and hitter to Derek Jeter. But he was the one who had to change positions upon joining the team. He was the one who the fanbase quickly maligned because it had spent years arguing Jeter was the winner and the better player. Mass groups of people are too stubborn to change their minds so quickly. If the Rockets take off, Westbrook can change his reputation. But if they lose in the first round of the playoffs, I wonder which guy Houston is going to pin the blame on…
Dawson: That makes me think about the larger issue of Westbrook with a new franchise. There’s an impression, some of it fair, that the Thunder catered to him too much, that too much of the team and franchise operated on his whims. In the three seasons that I’ve been here, certainly, Westbrook was allowed to dictate the team’s media policies in ways most players can’t. He effectively eliminated pregame locker room interviews by creating an atmosphere in which other players seemed uncomfortable doing them. There’s going to be change on both sides of this, and we’ll deal with how things might change for the Thunder. But for starters, how do we think Westbrook will adapt to playing in an organization where in theory he won’t be the shot-caller?
Katz: As someone who covered Westbrook during the years he became the solo star in OKC, I am more intrigued to see how that part of this plays out than anything else. The Thunder have always very intentionally catered to their stars. Once Durant left, they turned the organization over to Westbrook in a way few other franchises had done with a player. LeBron in Cleveland might be the only other example of one individual having as much sway with a team. It was no secret. The man literally made “Now I do what I want” the slogan of his MVP season. I always wondered how much of Westbrook staying in Oklahoma City had to do with that, considering no other place was going to give him as much freedom. And I think that translates to both on- and off-court lifestyle.
The offensive burden will naturally lessen in Houston, but there are quirks beyond Westbrook’s scoring chops which will have to, as well — like in those moments when his coach draws up a play after a timeout and he decides to do his own thing, regardless of what’s on the clipboard. He’s in the past decided how long the Thunder stay in certain cities on the road. This was very much his team. To be clear, he’s not the only NBA star in history to receive such treatment. But when the organization isn’t solely his, when there’s another MVP right next to him who was there first, there is going to have to be some adjustment. Westbrook is a smart guy. There’s no question, he knows his experience with the Rockets will be different. And he chose Houston. He may be completely fine with change if it means a better chance at a ring. But I’m still curious to see how it plays out.
Mayberry: That’s an important fact to remember in all this: Westbrook chose Houston. When all the signs pointed to Miami, the Rockets rescued Russ from the wrath of Pat Riley. That would have been real theater, Westbrook and Riley trying to coexist. The Rockets have a far more laid back culture than the rigid Heat. LeBron James couldn’t even have his way in Miami. Westbrook certainly would not have. In Houston, however, he at least has a chance to have a say in the day-to-day operations. It won’t be what Westbrook is used to, but the Rockets also won’t be as much of a shock to his system as Miami would have been.
I’m more intrigued by the on-court fit. There seems to be an expectation — or maybe it’s only the Rockets banking on this — Westbrook will get to Houston and transform his game just because he’s friends with Harden. That feels far fetched. Harden’s presence should help settle Westbrook, if in no other way than to take his thumb off of every little thing. But Westbrook also possesses one of the NBA’s most dominant personalities. He’s more alpha male than Harden, and, yes, that will matter in moments when truth is required. Westbrook won’t walk into Harden’s house a markedly better shooter, defender (although this presents a real opportunity) or decision-maker. The same things in Westbrook’s game that wowed and worried Harden when they were teammates a decade ago are still present today.
It helps that Westbrook and Harden are friends. But now they’ve become business partners. Can they now learn to navigate creative tension?
Dawson: If there’s any reason for optimism that Westbrook will change, I think it’s the change of scenery. As Fred said, he was given such free run of the Thunder organization, and though he tweaked his game to accommodate Paul George — and to a lesser extent, Carmelo Anthony — I don’t know that he ever could have made wholesale changes to his approach on or off the court in Oklahoma City.
It would have been nearly impossible for a new coach to take over and say, for example, that he was going to limit shootarounds or for a new head of PR to change the media policies. Westbrook’s routines were established here, and he was dedicated to them. In Houston, there’s a different set of norms, and to some extent he’ll have to adapt to them. The Rockets do things a their way, and that’s unlikely to change significantly for a single player, even as big a personality as Westbrook. I think it’ll be easier for him to adapt in a setting where different ground rules already exist than it would have been for him to accept someone trying to change the routine in a place where he was so crucial to creating it.
Part two
Slater: Russ has run the Thunder for a few years, but it’s not like he’s been the lone pilot his entire career. He grew up in the league only knowing second fiddle. Eight of his 11 NBA seasons were spent next to Kevin Durant, the universally beloved version. What Russ is to the state of Oklahoma now, KD was then — the symbol, while Westbrook kind of lurked in the shadows, exploding onto the scene for only 48 minutes a time, doing what he loves. I think part of him will enjoy sinking into the public background a bit, letting Harden get a bulk of the interview requests and city adoration.
Dawson: I think everyone around the league wonders this, given that the Thunder’s only truly bad season was their first, when the team and the city were firmly in a honeymoon period. Even at the start of 2016-17, there was some concern about how Thunder fans would react to Westbrook’s solo act. Without Durant, OKC wasn’t going to be in the Western Conference title chase, and there were no guarantees fans still would turn out in droves. As it happened, Westbrook had one of the great individual seasons of all time and the team stayed in the playoff chase, and that was plenty to keep fans coming back nightly.
This is different. Chris Paul may or may not open the season with the Thunder, but he’s hardly the draw he was as a Hornets rookie. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is a great piece to have at the start of a rebuild, but he’s no household name. The Thunder are going to lose a bunch of games this season, and probably more in 2020-21 . It probably says something about how the fan base will respond that in the past two years, we’ve seen increasing pockets of empty seats at The Peake, even as the Thunder went for it with two superstar players. I suspect this rebuild is going to look like they do in a lot of pieces. Fans will show up early out of curiosity and stay if the team overachieves. The place will rock when Westbrook returns and probably be full when George does. And on those Wednesday nights when Charlotte and Sacramento are in town, it probably won’t approach the atmosphere we’ve come to know. That doesn’t make Oklahoma City a failure as an NBA market. It makes Thunder fans normal.
Katz: One of the things I think people forget — and Brett, you’ve mentioned this on your podcast — is that as the Thunder get worse, they will naturally save some money they don’t have now. They’re going to drop out of paying the massive luxury-tax bill they had to send into the league last year. They’ll still claim a portion of the league’s giant TV revenue. Money, at some point during this rebuilding process, will start to come in from legalized gambling — and that revenue could be overwhelming, as well. On top of it all, the Thunder could go from payers to receivers. They’re going to get a portion of revenue sharing, too.
The question of whether people will show up in Oklahoma City always has a hidden implication to it: Is OKC a large enough market to sustain having an NBA team when that NBA team doesn’t win many games? But it’s actually only the third-smallest market. New Orleans has held onto the Hornets/Pelicans for all these years, when the organization has struggled for most of them. More people may travel in and out of New Orleans every year, but tourists aren’t going to Pels games. From knowing the organization, I’m confident the Thunder believe it’s possible to rebuild in OKC. Now, I’m not sure they could linger at the dregs of the league for 10 years and all would remain fine and dandy. But a purposeful and strategic restructuring that includes 20-something win seasons is very much a possibility. And that’s something Thunder fans have never experienced before; their team has been either new or in the postseason. Fewer people will show up. Fewer will watch on TV. Fewer will care. But if, 400 draft picks later, they get good again, those fans will come back, and OKC basketball will be just fine.
Mayberry: Let’s not act like the Thunder are about to bottom out. They’re not. The glory days unequivocally are over, and there will be a drop-off in wins, attendance and general interest. But we’re not talking about the 20-win Seattle SuperSonics of 2007. Unlike that Sonics team, Presti’s debut season as GM, there’s a strong culture in place in OKC, and with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Steven Adams the cupboard isn’t bare.
The Thunder already have withstood the hardest part of a rebuild — the teardown. The superstar faces of the franchise have all departed, but the Thunder are in rare position of having a rosy outlook as they begin building again. Their culture, current talent and collection of assets will keep them from being a nightly embarrassment. They’ll compete. They’ll play hard. They’ll play together. They’ll be fun.
In fact, this new version of the Thunder has a chance to be something many of those star-laden teams often struggled to be — a total team. For the past seven or eight seasons, the Thunder chased their tails trying to find the right fits around their revolving door of stars. And each season, they’d field a cast of characters who weren’t quite good enough. Something always was missing, shooting or depth, experience or two-way players. The reasons are understandable given Oklahoma City’s realities. But this is a clean slate, and the Thunder now have a chance to build a better brand of basketball. It won’t be more exciting ball. But it could be better. And in time, it just might lead to better results.
Could Chris Paul or Steven Adams be moved before the season starts? (Photo: Alonzo Adams / USA Today Sports)
Dawson: I would contend that the teardown isn’t quite over yet. That’s why I alluded to winning fewer games next season than the upcoming one. Gallinari probably is a short-timer. Paul, too, if the Thunder can find a deal. Who knows what the future holds for Dennis Schröder? The Thunder are probably going to get worse before they get better.
But Darnell, you make a great point that they can get better. Better than they were in this first 11 years, if things fall their way. This is a franchise with a chance to build a different culture — or at least to better execute its on-court vision of that culture — and that should be fun to watch.
To that point, I think we’re going to find out this season who Billy Donovan wants to be as a coach. I’m not sure we’ve seen it yet. As Donovan’s seat got hotter over the past two seasons, I maintained that he’s a good basketball coach. The evidence for that, from Florida, from his first season in OKC and from his regular-season record, is pretty strong. But I often wondered if Donovan was effectively communicating his message, at least to his star players. Was Westbrook tuning him out? Certainly in some huddles he was. The confusion at the end of Westbrook’s 20-20-20 game, when Donovan tried to sub him out and he waved off the move, was awkward, and indicated at least some disconnect between the two. Donovan will have to coach some veterans, particularly if Paul hangs around, but the Thunder will get gradually more green before they get seasoned again, and this might be a project more Donovan’s speed — inexperienced players he can mold, the way he did as a college coach. His NBA X-and-O acumen still will be tested, and maybe he doesn’t measure up there. But I’m interested to see what the Thunder look like with a system that isn’t “Westbrook,” which is what they’ve mostly been running post-Durant.
Along those lines, I’m curious as to how the whole franchise changes now. They’ve been at this for 11 years. What did they learn the first time they built a winner that they can apply this time? Do they change their approach to the media? Do they — for lack of more eloquent way of putting this — lighten up a little? I’m always struck when I go to other NBA arenas how many of them have in-game promotions featuring players on the video board playing trivia games or judging school kids’ drawings of their teammates. Generally, having fun. As the Thunder start over, it’ll be intriguing to see what they tweak.
Slater: I think they should draft MVPs in back-to-back-to-back years again.
Dawson: If they’re going to replicate anything…
That sort of brings us full circle, back to the start of the era that’s now ending. I’m wondering how each of you would sum up that first 11 years of Thunder basketball? Go anywhere you want with it. Your closing statement on OKC’s opening decade-plus.
Mayberry: The first 11 seasons were a dream come true. Unlike you gentlemen, I grew up in Oklahoma. I remember what it was like to have to look around the country and cherry-pick from another city’s pro ball clubs. It’s how I ended up rooting for the Minnesota Vikings and Washington Wizards (and Michigan Wolverines). I remember longing for a team we could call our own. I, like so many other Oklahomans, remember thinking it would never happen in my lifetime.
But then it happened in 2008. And when it did, the Thunder arrived with two budding megastars who would carry Oklahoma to heights greater than any of us dared to dream. And for 11 years, we’ve been entertained beyond belief. There have been nine postseason appearances, three conference finals trips and one Finals run. We’ve seen two MVPs, a combined six scoring titles, numerous Olympians, multiple All-Stars, a Sixth Man of the Year, the league’s best shot blocker and the league’s new triple double king.
And so when you think of the first chapter of Thunder basketball, think of all the successes rather than the agonizing failures. It wasn’t long ago that none of us could have envisioned any of this.
Slater: I was in Sacramento the other day. One of those pre-summer league summer leagues. Whatever hoops in a blah environment. Crowd mostly dead. Seated courtside: Vlade, Peja, Chris Webber. Jumbotron flashed them during a timeout. The place went from disinterested to ballistic. Any relic of that golden era of early 2000s Kings hoops electrifies the city. You’d think they won four titles over a decade, Spurs like stuff. Nope: Zero conference titles, one 60-win season, zero MVPs, only one West Finals appearance.
But that’s kind of the point. It’s about so much more than just titles. Think about what those Steve Nash teams meant to both the league and the Phoenix area. The Grit and Grind Grizzlies to Memphis. The Derrick Rose/Joakim Noah era Bulls to Chicago. The Thunder got further than any of those legendary teams. They had more elongated success. They captured and held an entire state’s attention for a decade. Sure, they whiffed on a wide-open window for multiple titles, but damn were they memorable. The disappointment will eventually disintegrate (as it has in Sacramento, Phoenix and elsewhere in the aftermath) and the league and city will only stand in cheer when reminded, like those Kings fans did last week at just the sight of Chris Webber back in their arena.
Katz: Just adding onto what Slater mentioned, there’s this weird thing with the NBA where we probably judge players’ individual legacies by how many rings they have more than any other sport, yet we do the opposite with teams. One of the beautiful parts of basketball history is a team doesn’t have to have titles for us to remember it fondly. Heck, it doesn’t even have to be good. I grew up a Clippers fan, which means I got to root for one of the most joyous teams ever assembled: Those early-2000s, flashy Darius Miles/Lamar Odom squads. They were all over pop culture. They were in Van Wilder. And we all remember them today. But here’s the thing: They stunk. They never even finished over .500. That sort of legacy doesn’t happen in other sports. No one gives a damn about the 78-84, 2004 Orioles, even if Miguel Tejada and Melvin Mora killed it for them. There’s a reason that reference is uncomfortably obscure. No one cares about fun teams in other sports. But in the long term, it’s all we care about in basketball.
Russell Westbrook’s Thunder teams — whether we’re talking about the ones with him, Durant and Harden or the ones with just him and K.D. or the one with his solo act or the ones with Paul George — were always fun. They were always part of the national attention. They always kept this little, upstart team from this tiny market the rest of the country knows little-to-nothing about relevant. History is going to talk about how the Thunder had three MVPs and watched them walk. But it’s also going to talk about how they made this league more fun, because that’s how basketball fans talk. In time, they find the positives. And there were lots to find over the past 11 seasons.
Dawson: I’m a big fan of the show Parks & Recreation, which frequently flaunted its writers’ fondness for the NBA. There’s a 2013 episode where Aziz Ansari’s character, Tom, has started a business that rents his used clothes to tweens in need of fashion they won’t outgrow. He’s trying to connect with young basketball players, and the pitch that clicks is showing them a Thunder postgame press conference — Durant and Westbrook, who’s wearing one of those short-sleeved button-downs with matching glasses. I remember thinking how amazing it was to have the height of basketball fashion represented by Oklahoma City, of all places.
Durant, Harden, Westbrook and the rest left a mark here, and the franchise helped shape the place as it grew. Westbrook on the outside always seemed a little out of place here, all standoffish scowls in city where they pride themselves on greeting you with a smile. But in a way, he was a perfect fit. He reached NBA stardom against all odds, having been a lightly recruited high school player until near the end of his senior year.
Oklahoma City was a long shot to get here, too. But it made it almost to the mountaintop. The success of those first 11 years is going to be hard as hell to replicate, and I don’t envy Presti, who has to follow his own tough act. But the organization did it before, and along the way the city fell for the NBA. The Thunder might have a long journey back, but I wouldn’t bet against them making it.
(Top photo: Issac Baldizon/NBAE via Getty
Dawson: I think everyone around the league wonders this, given that the Thunder’s only truly bad season was their first, when the team and the city were firmly in a honeymoon period. Even at the start of 2016-17, there was some concern about how Thunder fans would react to Westbrook’s solo act. Without Durant, OKC wasn’t going to be in the Western Conference title chase, and there were no guarantees fans still would turn out in droves. As it happened, Westbrook had one of the great individual seasons of all time and the team stayed in the playoff chase, and that was plenty to keep fans coming back nightly.
This is different. Chris Paul may or may not open the season with the Thunder, but he’s hardly the draw he was as a Hornets rookie. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is a great piece to have at the start of a rebuild, but he’s no household name. The Thunder are going to lose a bunch of games this season, and probably more in 2020-21 . It probably says something about how the fan base will respond that in the past two years, we’ve seen increasing pockets of empty seats at The Peake, even as the Thunder went for it with two superstar players. I suspect this rebuild is going to look like they do in a lot of pieces. Fans will show up early out of curiosity and stay if the team overachieves. The place will rock when Westbrook returns and probably be full when George does. And on those Wednesday nights when Charlotte and Sacramento are in town, it probably won’t approach the atmosphere we’ve come to know. That doesn’t make Oklahoma City a failure as an NBA market. It makes Thunder fans normal.
Katz: One of the things I think people forget — and Brett, you’ve mentioned this on your podcast — is that as the Thunder get worse, they will naturally save some money they don’t have now. They’re going to drop out of paying the massive luxury-tax bill they had to send into the league last year. They’ll still claim a portion of the league’s giant TV revenue. Money, at some point during this rebuilding process, will start to come in from legalized gambling — and that revenue could be overwhelming, as well. On top of it all, the Thunder could go from payers to receivers. They’re going to get a portion of revenue sharing, too.
The question of whether people will show up in Oklahoma City always has a hidden implication to it: Is OKC a large enough market to sustain having an NBA team when that NBA team doesn’t win many games? But it’s actually only the third-smallest market. New Orleans has held onto the Hornets/Pelicans for all these years, when the organization has struggled for most of them. More people may travel in and out of New Orleans every year, but tourists aren’t going to Pels games. From knowing the organization, I’m confident the Thunder believe it’s possible to rebuild in OKC. Now, I’m not sure they could linger at the dregs of the league for 10 years and all would remain fine and dandy. But a purposeful and strategic restructuring that includes 20-something win seasons is very much a possibility. And that’s something Thunder fans have never experienced before; their team has been either new or in the postseason. Fewer people will show up. Fewer will watch on TV. Fewer will care. But if, 400 draft picks later, they get good again, those fans will come back, and OKC basketball will be just fine.
Mayberry: Let’s not act like the Thunder are about to bottom out. They’re not. The glory days unequivocally are over, and there will be a drop-off in wins, attendance and general interest. But we’re not talking about the 20-win Seattle SuperSonics of 2007. Unlike that Sonics team, Presti’s debut season as GM, there’s a strong culture in place in OKC, and with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Steven Adams the cupboard isn’t bare.
The Thunder already have withstood the hardest part of a rebuild — the teardown. The superstar faces of the franchise have all departed, but the Thunder are in rare position of having a rosy outlook as they begin building again. Their culture, current talent and collection of assets will keep them from being a nightly embarrassment. They’ll compete. They’ll play hard. They’ll play together. They’ll be fun.
In fact, this new version of the Thunder has a chance to be something many of those star-laden teams often struggled to be — a total team. For the past seven or eight seasons, the Thunder chased their tails trying to find the right fits around their revolving door of stars. And each season, they’d field a cast of characters who weren’t quite good enough. Something always was missing, shooting or depth, experience or two-way players. The reasons are understandable given Oklahoma City’s realities. But this is a clean slate, and the Thunder now have a chance to build a better brand of basketball. It won’t be more exciting ball. But it could be better. And in time, it just might lead to better results.
Could Chris Paul or Steven Adams be moved before the season starts? (Photo: Alonzo Adams / USA Today Sports)
Dawson: I would contend that the teardown isn’t quite over yet. That’s why I alluded to winning fewer games next season than the upcoming one. Gallinari probably is a short-timer. Paul, too, if the Thunder can find a deal. Who knows what the future holds for Dennis Schröder? The Thunder are probably going to get worse before they get better.
But Darnell, you make a great point that they can get better. Better than they were in this first 11 years, if things fall their way. This is a franchise with a chance to build a different culture — or at least to better execute its on-court vision of that culture — and that should be fun to watch.
To that point, I think we’re going to find out this season who Billy Donovan wants to be as a coach. I’m not sure we’ve seen it yet. As Donovan’s seat got hotter over the past two seasons, I maintained that he’s a good basketball coach. The evidence for that, from Florida, from his first season in OKC and from his regular-season record, is pretty strong. But I often wondered if Donovan was effectively communicating his message, at least to his star players. Was Westbrook tuning him out? Certainly in some huddles he was. The confusion at the end of Westbrook’s 20-20-20 game, when Donovan tried to sub him out and he waved off the move, was awkward, and indicated at least some disconnect between the two. Donovan will have to coach some veterans, particularly if Paul hangs around, but the Thunder will get gradually more green before they get seasoned again, and this might be a project more Donovan’s speed — inexperienced players he can mold, the way he did as a college coach. His NBA X-and-O acumen still will be tested, and maybe he doesn’t measure up there. But I’m interested to see what the Thunder look like with a system that isn’t “Westbrook,” which is what they’ve mostly been running post-Durant.
Along those lines, I’m curious as to how the whole franchise changes now. They’ve been at this for 11 years. What did they learn the first time they built a winner that they can apply this time? Do they change their approach to the media? Do they — for lack of more eloquent way of putting this — lighten up a little? I’m always struck when I go to other NBA arenas how many of them have in-game promotions featuring players on the video board playing trivia games or judging school kids’ drawings of their teammates. Generally, having fun. As the Thunder start over, it’ll be intriguing to see what they tweak.
Slater: I think they should draft MVPs in back-to-back-to-back years again.
Dawson: If they’re going to replicate anything…
That sort of brings us full circle, back to the start of the era that’s now ending. I’m wondering how each of you would sum up that first 11 years of Thunder basketball? Go anywhere you want with it. Your closing statement on OKC’s opening decade-plus.
Mayberry: The first 11 seasons were a dream come true. Unlike you gentlemen, I grew up in Oklahoma. I remember what it was like to have to look around the country and cherry-pick from another city’s pro ball clubs. It’s how I ended up rooting for the Minnesota Vikings and Washington Wizards (and Michigan Wolverines). I remember longing for a team we could call our own. I, like so many other Oklahomans, remember thinking it would never happen in my lifetime.
But then it happened in 2008. And when it did, the Thunder arrived with two budding megastars who would carry Oklahoma to heights greater than any of us dared to dream. And for 11 years, we’ve been entertained beyond belief. There have been nine postseason appearances, three conference finals trips and one Finals run. We’ve seen two MVPs, a combined six scoring titles, numerous Olympians, multiple All-Stars, a Sixth Man of the Year, the league’s best shot blocker and the league’s new triple double king.
And so when you think of the first chapter of Thunder basketball, think of all the successes rather than the agonizing failures. It wasn’t long ago that none of us could have envisioned any of this.
Slater: I was in Sacramento the other day. One of those pre-summer league summer leagues. Whatever hoops in a blah environment. Crowd mostly dead. Seated courtside: Vlade, Peja, Chris Webber. Jumbotron flashed them during a timeout. The place went from disinterested to ballistic. Any relic of that golden era of early 2000s Kings hoops electrifies the city. You’d think they won four titles over a decade, Spurs like stuff. Nope: Zero conference titles, one 60-win season, zero MVPs, only one West Finals appearance.
But that’s kind of the point. It’s about so much more than just titles. Think about what those Steve Nash teams meant to both the league and the Phoenix area. The Grit and Grind Grizzlies to Memphis. The Derrick Rose/Joakim Noah era Bulls to Chicago. The Thunder got further than any of those legendary teams. They had more elongated success. They captured and held an entire state’s attention for a decade. Sure, they whiffed on a wide-open window for multiple titles, but damn were they memorable. The disappointment will eventually disintegrate (as it has in Sacramento, Phoenix and elsewhere in the aftermath) and the league and city will only stand in cheer when reminded, like those Kings fans did last week at just the sight of Chris Webber back in their arena.
Katz: Just adding onto what Slater mentioned, there’s this weird thing with the NBA where we probably judge players’ individual legacies by how many rings they have more than any other sport, yet we do the opposite with teams. One of the beautiful parts of basketball history is a team doesn’t have to have titles for us to remember it fondly. Heck, it doesn’t even have to be good. I grew up a Clippers fan, which means I got to root for one of the most joyous teams ever assembled: Those early-2000s, flashy Darius Miles/Lamar Odom squads. They were all over pop culture. They were in Van Wilder. And we all remember them today. But here’s the thing: They stunk. They never even finished over .500. That sort of legacy doesn’t happen in other sports. No one gives a damn about the 78-84, 2004 Orioles, even if Miguel Tejada and Melvin Mora killed it for them. There’s a reason that reference is uncomfortably obscure. No one cares about fun teams in other sports. But in the long term, it’s all we care about in basketball.
Russell Westbrook’s Thunder teams — whether we’re talking about the ones with him, Durant and Harden or the ones with just him and K.D. or the one with his solo act or the ones with Paul George — were always fun. They were always part of the national attention. They always kept this little, upstart team from this tiny market the rest of the country knows little-to-nothing about relevant. History is going to talk about how the Thunder had three MVPs and watched them walk. But it’s also going to talk about how they made this league more fun, because that’s how basketball fans talk. In time, they find the positives. And there were lots to find over the past 11 seasons.
Dawson: I’m a big fan of the show Parks & Recreation, which frequently flaunted its writers’ fondness for the NBA. There’s a 2013 episode where Aziz Ansari’s character, Tom, has started a business that rents his used clothes to tweens in need of fashion they won’t outgrow. He’s trying to connect with young basketball players, and the pitch that clicks is showing them a Thunder postgame press conference — Durant and Westbrook, who’s wearing one of those short-sleeved button-downs with matching glasses. I remember thinking how amazing it was to have the height of basketball fashion represented by Oklahoma City, of all places.
Durant, Harden, Westbrook and the rest left a mark here, and the franchise helped shape the place as it grew. Westbrook on the outside always seemed a little out of place here, all standoffish scowls in city where they pride themselves on greeting you with a smile. But in a way, he was a perfect fit. He reached NBA stardom against all odds, having been a lightly recruited high school player until near the end of his senior year.
Oklahoma City was a long shot to get here, too. But it made it almost to the mountaintop. The success of those first 11 years is going to be hard as hell to replicate, and I don’t envy Presti, who has to follow his own tough act. But the organization did it before, and along the way the city fell for the NBA. The Thunder might have a long journey back, but I wouldn’t bet against them making it.
(Top photo: Issac Baldizon/NBAE via Getty
G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman
Logic Is Absent Wherever Hate Is Present
Mike Sando joined the Athletic
The other day I told an NFL coach of plans to join The Athletic.
“Oh, nice, I just subscribed,” this coach replied. “I think they have done a good job getting quality writers — not just opinion-piece people, but people who go in-depth into the hows and whys, and not just, ‘OK, what is going to sell us something today?'”
Others whom I’ve shared this bit of professional job news with have responded similarly. There was the front-office executive who said he subscribed to The Athletic so he could better follow his favorite team in another sport. A former general manager said he appreciated reading insights from peers such as columnist Amy Trask, late of the Oakland Raiders’ front office. And so on.
Point being, people in the know have noticed The Athletic. They appreciate what it is, and what it is not. So do I, which is why I’m excited to begin this new chapter after 12 great years at ESPN, including the last six as an NFL columnist for ESPN Insider.
Those familiar with my work won’t be surprised to see that the second paragraph of this introductory piece included a coach’s insights. As my annual “Quarterback Tiers” project and other pieces demonstrate, the goal is to learn as much as possible from the smartest people in the game, to better inform readers.
The more I learn about the game and realize how much more there is to know, the more I understand the elder Jim Mora’s classic rant — not the one about playoffs, but rather the one in which he grew so weary of media pontification that he told a reporter, “You think you know, but you don’t know, and you never will.”
The Athletic seems weary of excessive pontification in its own way, offering depth of reporting as a remedy.
Of course, to really know and not just think you know, a robust network of trusted contacts becomes essential. There’s no substitute for time on task when developing one of those.
And covering the NFL continuously since 1998 has led to so many great opportunities for learning.
I’ve been in press boxes, along sidelines and/or inside locker rooms for roughly 350 NFL games, including the past 20 Super Bowls. Traveling with the “Monday Night Football” crew and attending Jon Gruden’s QB Camps for several years stand out among the highlights. Serving on the Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee for 10 years and counting is another.
None of this seemed remotely possible while growing up in Northern California and attending exactly one NFL game during my youth: Broncos-49ers in the preseason at Candlestick Park. Neither John Elway nor Joe Montana played that day, as I recall, which would have been a bigger bummer if I hadn’t been a Raiders fan at that time.
Writing for the die-hard fan comes naturally if you’ve been one. When the Raiders moved back to Oakland from L.A. in 1995, I used borrowed money to purchase a season ticket even though I was living two states away. Flying into Oakland on game-day morning, walking from the airport to the Coliseum (bad idea!), tailgating with the crazed masses and flying home after the game to save on a hotel seemed rational at the time.
While my fan card expired two decades ago, the fan’s perspective remains central. You’ll never see me complain on social media about an airline losing my bag or a hotel botching my reservation because so many people would love to spend even one day doing this stuff for a living. It’s a blast — and a privilege.
Conducting in-depth research and sharing the findings with others who are passionate about the subject might be the most enjoyable part of the whole gig. When visiting NFL teams, my approach is to bring along research to share with coaches, executives and players. These folks know more about their own teams than anyone else, so it’s especially rewarding when the research resonates with them. The same mindset applies when putting together a column for publication.
The plan at The Athletic is to build upon my previous experiences while continuing to grow through daily interactions with coaches, personnel evaluators, salary-cap managers, contract negotiators, analytics specialists, players, consultants, agents and all the people whose insights help create an informed perspective.
Smart readers bring so much to the table in the form of ideas, expertise and criticism — all important components in the push to continue growing. I appreciate you reading, and I look forward to embarking on the next phase of this journey together.
(Photo: Dylan Buell / Getty Images)
“Oh, nice, I just subscribed,” this coach replied. “I think they have done a good job getting quality writers — not just opinion-piece people, but people who go in-depth into the hows and whys, and not just, ‘OK, what is going to sell us something today?'”
Others whom I’ve shared this bit of professional job news with have responded similarly. There was the front-office executive who said he subscribed to The Athletic so he could better follow his favorite team in another sport. A former general manager said he appreciated reading insights from peers such as columnist Amy Trask, late of the Oakland Raiders’ front office. And so on.
Point being, people in the know have noticed The Athletic. They appreciate what it is, and what it is not. So do I, which is why I’m excited to begin this new chapter after 12 great years at ESPN, including the last six as an NFL columnist for ESPN Insider.
Those familiar with my work won’t be surprised to see that the second paragraph of this introductory piece included a coach’s insights. As my annual “Quarterback Tiers” project and other pieces demonstrate, the goal is to learn as much as possible from the smartest people in the game, to better inform readers.
The more I learn about the game and realize how much more there is to know, the more I understand the elder Jim Mora’s classic rant — not the one about playoffs, but rather the one in which he grew so weary of media pontification that he told a reporter, “You think you know, but you don’t know, and you never will.”
The Athletic seems weary of excessive pontification in its own way, offering depth of reporting as a remedy.
Of course, to really know and not just think you know, a robust network of trusted contacts becomes essential. There’s no substitute for time on task when developing one of those.
And covering the NFL continuously since 1998 has led to so many great opportunities for learning.
I’ve been in press boxes, along sidelines and/or inside locker rooms for roughly 350 NFL games, including the past 20 Super Bowls. Traveling with the “Monday Night Football” crew and attending Jon Gruden’s QB Camps for several years stand out among the highlights. Serving on the Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee for 10 years and counting is another.
None of this seemed remotely possible while growing up in Northern California and attending exactly one NFL game during my youth: Broncos-49ers in the preseason at Candlestick Park. Neither John Elway nor Joe Montana played that day, as I recall, which would have been a bigger bummer if I hadn’t been a Raiders fan at that time.
Writing for the die-hard fan comes naturally if you’ve been one. When the Raiders moved back to Oakland from L.A. in 1995, I used borrowed money to purchase a season ticket even though I was living two states away. Flying into Oakland on game-day morning, walking from the airport to the Coliseum (bad idea!), tailgating with the crazed masses and flying home after the game to save on a hotel seemed rational at the time.
While my fan card expired two decades ago, the fan’s perspective remains central. You’ll never see me complain on social media about an airline losing my bag or a hotel botching my reservation because so many people would love to spend even one day doing this stuff for a living. It’s a blast — and a privilege.
Conducting in-depth research and sharing the findings with others who are passionate about the subject might be the most enjoyable part of the whole gig. When visiting NFL teams, my approach is to bring along research to share with coaches, executives and players. These folks know more about their own teams than anyone else, so it’s especially rewarding when the research resonates with them. The same mindset applies when putting together a column for publication.
The plan at The Athletic is to build upon my previous experiences while continuing to grow through daily interactions with coaches, personnel evaluators, salary-cap managers, contract negotiators, analytics specialists, players, consultants, agents and all the people whose insights help create an informed perspective.
Smart readers bring so much to the table in the form of ideas, expertise and criticism — all important components in the push to continue growing. I appreciate you reading, and I look forward to embarking on the next phase of this journey together.
(Photo: Dylan Buell / Getty Images)
STATELINE, Nev. — Stephen Curry maintains he didn’t fly to New York from Shanghai so he could pitch Kevin Durant on returning to the Warriors. He wanted to get out there earlier, but his Asia tour with Under Armour prevented it. He hadn’t seen Durant since the No. 1 free agent on the market tore his Achilles and planned all along to pay a visit.
But before the free-agency frenzy started two weeks ago, Curry needed to say something to Durant, face to face. There were things Curry wanted to look him in the eye and convey.
“I knew full well it was decision time, whatever way he was going to go,” Curry said Saturday during a break in the second round of the American Century Golf Championship celebrity tournament, a delay created by a logjam at the par-5 16th hole at Edgewood Tahoe.
“There was no need to pitch. He knows what we’re about and what we accomplished. He just had to make a decision that makes him happy. That’s what everybody wants to do in this league. It was more about a respect factor, not letting the BS of this league get in the way of our relationship, and not let it change who I am or anything like that. I feel like he just knew what he wanted. And at the end of the day, that’s all you can ask for as a player.”
It sounds like Curry flew to New York, against the wishes of some in his camp, for closure. With the Warriors set to move to San Francisco’s Chase Center this season, he spent much of last season saying his goodbyes to Oracle Arena, to Oakland, to the environment and culture that raised him. He continued the farewell tour when he flew to visit Durant, to properly end an era, on the same day that Durant announced he’d be signing with the Brooklyn Nets.
The Warriors are new in so many ways now. This current edition rests on the shoulders of Curry, the once-again undisputed catalyst of the franchise on the court and off. They aren’t rebuilding in the traditional sense, not with Curry and now Klay Thompson making maximum money. They aren’t retooling, not really, as they’ve categorically shifted away from the philosophies of their recent dominance. It’s probably more of a renovation. Forced by Durant’s departure and salary-cap restraints, the Warriors have remodeled, keeping the same bones but drastically altering the perspective and aesthetic.
This requires a new Curry. Not the young gunner making a name for himself, altering the landscape of the basketball. Not the amenable co-star coalescing a dynastic collection of talent. The Warriors need a Curry we haven’t seen before. Steph Curry 3.0. The version with a youthful vigor to dominate a league and yet with leadership skills and wisdom earned through the fire. One who can ball and build simultaneously, one with the aggressiveness of something to prove but the patience of one who’s proven.
But you don’t pour new wine into old wineskins. So, first, he had to end what was in order to begin what will be. He had to turn the page, adopt a new psyche. He has now said goodbye to Oakland, to Oracle, to Durant, to the struggle and successes of the past. He is now renewed.
“Hell, nah,” Curry replied when asked if he would do load management. “We’ve got a great opportunity to build something special with some hungry guys looking to prove themselves. There are so many narratives people can throw at us. But at the end of the day, I’ve never been the type to show up with any other mindset than to do what you do — hoop. We’ve got championship DNA. We know that. We’ve got our core, when Klay gets back. It’s going to be an interesting year, for sure, all the way around. It’s going to be challenging to really find that momentum early. But with the new arena, losing the Finals, this summer is a different vibe. Keeps you locked in.”
Curry said he watched some of the Warriors’ summer-league action. One of the players who jumped out at him was first-round pick Jordan Poole.
Curry loved the youngster’s confidence. He can already see how the Warriors can take advantage of Poole’s aggressiveness and creativity. Sure, the youngster will have his bumps as he learns the ropes. But Curry likes the idea of Poole’s “F you mentality” in the rotation.
You can tell he’s already envisioning how he can help Poole, teach him how to maximize his ball-handling, shooting and innate knack for scoring. It’s been a while since the Warriors have been in this position — building chemistry, developing young players, growing together.
Curry looks back at those days on the way up fondly. They built the culture that founded all of this from the ground up with an unflinching belief and unreasonable confidence. This is a chance to return to that, the purity and simplicity of a team bonding and building.
“It will be fun for everybody,” he said. “It’s a new challenge. I love the talent we’ve got. We just don’t know what it’s going to look like because we’ve never done it before.”
Which is why, Curry said, the Warriors need Draymond Green. He helped build it and will be key to doing it again. Back in 2015, when Green was due a contract extension, Curry would, in the middle of the game when Green made a play, catch the attention of Warriors co-chairman Joe Lacob and tell him to “pay that man.” Curry is of the same mind now as Green is due a contract extension.
“I feel like he’s proven how valuable he is to a championship team and can find ways to get even better,” Curry said. “They know what’s up.”
Since Steve Kerr arrived in 2014, the Warriors have been about cresting the championship hill and staying on top. The last time Curry was in this environment, trying to build something, he was one of the youngsters developing.
With the losses of Andre Iguodala and Shaun Livingston, the former traded and the latter waived, Curry is now the oldest Warrior on the roster. He is also, with Russell Westbrook being traded to Houston, now the longest-tenured active player with the team who drafted him.
“That’s absolutely nuts,” Curry said. “It’s crazy. It’s all about timing. Everybody’s path is different. Whatever makes you happy. There are guys who have done it before in terms of trying to stay with the same team the whole team — which is obviously a goal of mine. But in terms of the way the league is now, with a lot of movement, it’s not surprising. I know me and DeMar (DeRozan) were the same from my draft class until last year (when the Raptors traded DeRozan to the Spurs). So I’m the last man standing.”
He is now 31 and entering his 11th NBA season. Behind him is a decade as textured as his twisted hair. Drafted by a franchise for which he didn’t want to play and had to make it work. Inherited the rubble of the “We Believe” era, dysfunction he had to navigate. Career threatened by ankle injuries. Overlooked and underappreciated, forcing him to go take respect. Reached the top of the game, winning two MVPs and three championships. Created a dynasty, sharing the stage with one of the greatest ever. Lost two NBA Finals in gut-wrenching fashion. Both unequivocally adored and routinely discredited.
He’s emerged from it all as secure as he has ever been.
“It cemented me,” Curry said of the three years with Durant, talking in a low voice as players ahead of them started teeing off. “Cemented my personality, how I see the world and what makes me go amidst the heights of where we were at for the last three years. Not a lot of people experience what we experienced in terms of criticism, attention, the intensity of basketball, the level we were playing at. It further cemented the foundation of kind of who I am. I see there are a lot of different ways to do it, and you respect everybody’s different approach and mindset and angle and what makes them go, what motivates them. But I’m really comfortable with mine.”
But before the free-agency frenzy started two weeks ago, Curry needed to say something to Durant, face to face. There were things Curry wanted to look him in the eye and convey.
“I knew full well it was decision time, whatever way he was going to go,” Curry said Saturday during a break in the second round of the American Century Golf Championship celebrity tournament, a delay created by a logjam at the par-5 16th hole at Edgewood Tahoe.
“There was no need to pitch. He knows what we’re about and what we accomplished. He just had to make a decision that makes him happy. That’s what everybody wants to do in this league. It was more about a respect factor, not letting the BS of this league get in the way of our relationship, and not let it change who I am or anything like that. I feel like he just knew what he wanted. And at the end of the day, that’s all you can ask for as a player.”
It sounds like Curry flew to New York, against the wishes of some in his camp, for closure. With the Warriors set to move to San Francisco’s Chase Center this season, he spent much of last season saying his goodbyes to Oracle Arena, to Oakland, to the environment and culture that raised him. He continued the farewell tour when he flew to visit Durant, to properly end an era, on the same day that Durant announced he’d be signing with the Brooklyn Nets.
The Warriors are new in so many ways now. This current edition rests on the shoulders of Curry, the once-again undisputed catalyst of the franchise on the court and off. They aren’t rebuilding in the traditional sense, not with Curry and now Klay Thompson making maximum money. They aren’t retooling, not really, as they’ve categorically shifted away from the philosophies of their recent dominance. It’s probably more of a renovation. Forced by Durant’s departure and salary-cap restraints, the Warriors have remodeled, keeping the same bones but drastically altering the perspective and aesthetic.
This requires a new Curry. Not the young gunner making a name for himself, altering the landscape of the basketball. Not the amenable co-star coalescing a dynastic collection of talent. The Warriors need a Curry we haven’t seen before. Steph Curry 3.0. The version with a youthful vigor to dominate a league and yet with leadership skills and wisdom earned through the fire. One who can ball and build simultaneously, one with the aggressiveness of something to prove but the patience of one who’s proven.
But you don’t pour new wine into old wineskins. So, first, he had to end what was in order to begin what will be. He had to turn the page, adopt a new psyche. He has now said goodbye to Oakland, to Oracle, to Durant, to the struggle and successes of the past. He is now renewed.
“Hell, nah,” Curry replied when asked if he would do load management. “We’ve got a great opportunity to build something special with some hungry guys looking to prove themselves. There are so many narratives people can throw at us. But at the end of the day, I’ve never been the type to show up with any other mindset than to do what you do — hoop. We’ve got championship DNA. We know that. We’ve got our core, when Klay gets back. It’s going to be an interesting year, for sure, all the way around. It’s going to be challenging to really find that momentum early. But with the new arena, losing the Finals, this summer is a different vibe. Keeps you locked in.”
Curry said he watched some of the Warriors’ summer-league action. One of the players who jumped out at him was first-round pick Jordan Poole.
Curry loved the youngster’s confidence. He can already see how the Warriors can take advantage of Poole’s aggressiveness and creativity. Sure, the youngster will have his bumps as he learns the ropes. But Curry likes the idea of Poole’s “F you mentality” in the rotation.
You can tell he’s already envisioning how he can help Poole, teach him how to maximize his ball-handling, shooting and innate knack for scoring. It’s been a while since the Warriors have been in this position — building chemistry, developing young players, growing together.
Curry looks back at those days on the way up fondly. They built the culture that founded all of this from the ground up with an unflinching belief and unreasonable confidence. This is a chance to return to that, the purity and simplicity of a team bonding and building.
“It will be fun for everybody,” he said. “It’s a new challenge. I love the talent we’ve got. We just don’t know what it’s going to look like because we’ve never done it before.”
Which is why, Curry said, the Warriors need Draymond Green. He helped build it and will be key to doing it again. Back in 2015, when Green was due a contract extension, Curry would, in the middle of the game when Green made a play, catch the attention of Warriors co-chairman Joe Lacob and tell him to “pay that man.” Curry is of the same mind now as Green is due a contract extension.
“I feel like he’s proven how valuable he is to a championship team and can find ways to get even better,” Curry said. “They know what’s up.”
Since Steve Kerr arrived in 2014, the Warriors have been about cresting the championship hill and staying on top. The last time Curry was in this environment, trying to build something, he was one of the youngsters developing.
With the losses of Andre Iguodala and Shaun Livingston, the former traded and the latter waived, Curry is now the oldest Warrior on the roster. He is also, with Russell Westbrook being traded to Houston, now the longest-tenured active player with the team who drafted him.
“That’s absolutely nuts,” Curry said. “It’s crazy. It’s all about timing. Everybody’s path is different. Whatever makes you happy. There are guys who have done it before in terms of trying to stay with the same team the whole team — which is obviously a goal of mine. But in terms of the way the league is now, with a lot of movement, it’s not surprising. I know me and DeMar (DeRozan) were the same from my draft class until last year (when the Raptors traded DeRozan to the Spurs). So I’m the last man standing.”
He is now 31 and entering his 11th NBA season. Behind him is a decade as textured as his twisted hair. Drafted by a franchise for which he didn’t want to play and had to make it work. Inherited the rubble of the “We Believe” era, dysfunction he had to navigate. Career threatened by ankle injuries. Overlooked and underappreciated, forcing him to go take respect. Reached the top of the game, winning two MVPs and three championships. Created a dynasty, sharing the stage with one of the greatest ever. Lost two NBA Finals in gut-wrenching fashion. Both unequivocally adored and routinely discredited.
He’s emerged from it all as secure as he has ever been.
“It cemented me,” Curry said of the three years with Durant, talking in a low voice as players ahead of them started teeing off. “Cemented my personality, how I see the world and what makes me go amidst the heights of where we were at for the last three years. Not a lot of people experience what we experienced in terms of criticism, attention, the intensity of basketball, the level we were playing at. It further cemented the foundation of kind of who I am. I see there are a lot of different ways to do it, and you respect everybody’s different approach and mindset and angle and what makes them go, what motivates them. But I’m really comfortable with mine.”
Part two
Curry’s approach shot on the par-4 14th hole Saturday at Edgewood sailed over the green and into a spectator tent, landing in a carpeted aisle. With encouragement from playing partner Justin Timberlake, Curry opted against taking a drop and grabbed his wedge so he could chip it from inside the tent.
Among fans in the chalet, most of whom had their cell phone cameras going, with a throng of people surrounding the green looking on — and Timberlake serving as his hype man — Curry chipped it off the carpet, over the railing and onto the green, rolling just past the hole and onto the lip of the fringe. The crowd erupted.
A similar dare-type scenario happened in the first round Friday. A break in the action on the 17th hole, as usual, turned into playtime. The par-3 hole runs alongside the shore of the lake. Boats and people in swimwear, with drinks in hand, line the shore. Fans throw beach balls and footballs onto the grass, along with T-shirts and Sharpies hoping for autographs. A roll-out basketball court is set up at the bottom of the hill beneath the tee box.
(Photo: Bianca Rhodes/ @letsgowarriors)
Curry and Timberlake delighted the crowd with long-range jumpers onto the court. Curry then decided to go in for a dunk. The rim looked 11-feet tall at the bottom of the incline. Still, he jogged down the hill and burst off two feet, missing the one-hand dunk. He tried again, missed another. One more try, one more miss.
“It’s so high,” Curry yelled to Timberlake. “It’s so high, JT.”
It’s not in him to walk away from the challenge.
That is perhaps cause for concern. Because Curry is 31, and this will be his 11th year, and the last two seasons he has missed games, including during the 2018 playoffs, with injury. How vulnerable is he with a heavier load, especially without Klay for at least the first half of the season?
“That will be the weird part,” he said of playing without Thompson as his longtime backcourt partner recovers from an ACL tear. “That will definitely be kind of strange.”
Each year, Curry creates an offseason plan with his trainer and guru, Brandon Payne of Accelerate Basketball, based on what is needed for the coming season and what happened the previous one. They are close to nailing down a plan, as Curry shifts gears to training. But they will have to engineer a plan for how Curry can return to MVP production while also preserving his body.
In his unanimous MVP season of 2015-16, Curry took a career-high 1,598 shots in the regular season while playing 2,700 minutes. Then Durant signed with the Warriors in July 2016 and Curry hasn’t hit those marks since.
With no Durant at all and no Thompson in the first several months of the season, Curry must get back to his old ways for the Warriors to have a chance. But the trick is to get the production of the MVP years without the minutes of the Mark Jackson years. In the two seasons before Kerr’s arrival — right after he signed his rookie extension — Curry averaged more than 37 minutes per game. He has averaged 33.4 minutes under Kerr, but in all five of those years the Warriors were loaded with talent and experience that allowed him to rest.
That’s the delicate balance the Warriors will have to manage — how to allow Curry to attack the challenge before him without wearing him out in the process. To that end, recovery will be high on Curry and Payne’s agenda. The presence of D’Angelo Russell, an All-Star who can carry the offense, figures to go a long way to helping this juggling act.
He feels renewed now. But keeping him fresh is the real challenge.
Adding to his offensive load against defenses singularly focused on Curry, which will assuredly follow a blueprint similar to what Toronto employed in the NBA Finals, will be Curry’s new defensive responsibilities. When the Warriors had a wealth of top defenders, they could afford to stash Curry on a lesser offensive threat.
The Warriors don’t have that luxury anymore, at least not until Thompson gets back. They don’t have the stable of perimeter defenders to counter the NBA’s wealth of scorers.
The Warriors’ expected decline on the defensive end is a primary reason many doubt the Warriors this season. That and a roster with eight new players, nine counting Jacob Evans, who hardly played last season. That and the youth up and down the lineup.
(Photo: Bianca Rhodes/ @letsgowarriors)
The break in the action on the 16th hole was coming to an end. Curry’s turn was near, leaving time for one final question.
Are the Warriors making the playoffs?
He was almost through the word “facts” when he realized it was a question and not a statement. Suddenly, his calm expression disappeared. His face scrunched and his voice elevated above a whisper, adding a shriek for emphasis.
“What?!” he said, playfully agitated by the sheer audacity of the question. “What?!”
Curry walked away, exiting the headspace of the coming NBA season, where doubt and uncertainty are pointed at his team, and re-entered the beautiful struggle of golf. He took a seat, chatted a little with Aaron Rodgers’ guest Danica Patrick before grabbing his driver and teeing off.
Curry has no interest in entertaining skepticism. That’s no way to start a new era.
(Top photo: Bianca Rhodes/ @letsgowarriors)
Among fans in the chalet, most of whom had their cell phone cameras going, with a throng of people surrounding the green looking on — and Timberlake serving as his hype man — Curry chipped it off the carpet, over the railing and onto the green, rolling just past the hole and onto the lip of the fringe. The crowd erupted.
A similar dare-type scenario happened in the first round Friday. A break in the action on the 17th hole, as usual, turned into playtime. The par-3 hole runs alongside the shore of the lake. Boats and people in swimwear, with drinks in hand, line the shore. Fans throw beach balls and footballs onto the grass, along with T-shirts and Sharpies hoping for autographs. A roll-out basketball court is set up at the bottom of the hill beneath the tee box.
(Photo: Bianca Rhodes/ @letsgowarriors)
Curry and Timberlake delighted the crowd with long-range jumpers onto the court. Curry then decided to go in for a dunk. The rim looked 11-feet tall at the bottom of the incline. Still, he jogged down the hill and burst off two feet, missing the one-hand dunk. He tried again, missed another. One more try, one more miss.
“It’s so high,” Curry yelled to Timberlake. “It’s so high, JT.”
It’s not in him to walk away from the challenge.
That is perhaps cause for concern. Because Curry is 31, and this will be his 11th year, and the last two seasons he has missed games, including during the 2018 playoffs, with injury. How vulnerable is he with a heavier load, especially without Klay for at least the first half of the season?
“That will be the weird part,” he said of playing without Thompson as his longtime backcourt partner recovers from an ACL tear. “That will definitely be kind of strange.”
Each year, Curry creates an offseason plan with his trainer and guru, Brandon Payne of Accelerate Basketball, based on what is needed for the coming season and what happened the previous one. They are close to nailing down a plan, as Curry shifts gears to training. But they will have to engineer a plan for how Curry can return to MVP production while also preserving his body.
In his unanimous MVP season of 2015-16, Curry took a career-high 1,598 shots in the regular season while playing 2,700 minutes. Then Durant signed with the Warriors in July 2016 and Curry hasn’t hit those marks since.
With no Durant at all and no Thompson in the first several months of the season, Curry must get back to his old ways for the Warriors to have a chance. But the trick is to get the production of the MVP years without the minutes of the Mark Jackson years. In the two seasons before Kerr’s arrival — right after he signed his rookie extension — Curry averaged more than 37 minutes per game. He has averaged 33.4 minutes under Kerr, but in all five of those years the Warriors were loaded with talent and experience that allowed him to rest.
That’s the delicate balance the Warriors will have to manage — how to allow Curry to attack the challenge before him without wearing him out in the process. To that end, recovery will be high on Curry and Payne’s agenda. The presence of D’Angelo Russell, an All-Star who can carry the offense, figures to go a long way to helping this juggling act.
He feels renewed now. But keeping him fresh is the real challenge.
Adding to his offensive load against defenses singularly focused on Curry, which will assuredly follow a blueprint similar to what Toronto employed in the NBA Finals, will be Curry’s new defensive responsibilities. When the Warriors had a wealth of top defenders, they could afford to stash Curry on a lesser offensive threat.
The Warriors don’t have that luxury anymore, at least not until Thompson gets back. They don’t have the stable of perimeter defenders to counter the NBA’s wealth of scorers.
The Warriors’ expected decline on the defensive end is a primary reason many doubt the Warriors this season. That and a roster with eight new players, nine counting Jacob Evans, who hardly played last season. That and the youth up and down the lineup.
(Photo: Bianca Rhodes/ @letsgowarriors)
The break in the action on the 16th hole was coming to an end. Curry’s turn was near, leaving time for one final question.
Are the Warriors making the playoffs?
He was almost through the word “facts” when he realized it was a question and not a statement. Suddenly, his calm expression disappeared. His face scrunched and his voice elevated above a whisper, adding a shriek for emphasis.
“What?!” he said, playfully agitated by the sheer audacity of the question. “What?!”
Curry walked away, exiting the headspace of the coming NBA season, where doubt and uncertainty are pointed at his team, and re-entered the beautiful struggle of golf. He took a seat, chatted a little with Aaron Rodgers’ guest Danica Patrick before grabbing his driver and teeing off.
Curry has no interest in entertaining skepticism. That’s no way to start a new era.
(Top photo: Bianca Rhodes/ @letsgowarriors)
G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman
Logic Is Absent Wherever Hate Is Present
@CSquare43 @dayun @OaklandCertified @ryderldb @FaTaL @Bay Area @Berry
@blackestofpanthers
Y'all should read this article. Steph already a Jordan Poole fan
G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman
Logic Is Absent Wherever Hate Is Present
Everybody should be repping the homie @Nerdy black guy whenever they can. Thanks breh 
@CSquare43 @dayun @OaklandCertified @ryderldb @FaTaL @Bay Area @Berry
@blackestofpanthers
Y'all should read this article. Steph already a Jordan Poole fan
LOL! I was just copying all this to put into our season thread.....thanks @Nerdy black guy
breh, could you please post this article?
2019 Quarterback Tiers: Fifty-five coaches and executives...
and post it in this thread : https://www.thecoli.com/threads/nfl-executives-rank-quarterbacks-for-2019-season.722569/
respek breh
2019 Quarterback Tiers: Fifty-five coaches and executives...
and post it in this thread : https://www.thecoli.com/threads/nfl-executives-rank-quarterbacks-for-2019-season.722569/
respek breh