dora_da_destroyer

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Chadwick died.

Kilmonger died.

N'Jobu died.

T'Chaka died.

Zuri died.

Daniel Kaluuya's career took off so he went to star in other movies and couldn't commit to BP 2.

All of the men who played a major part in the first movie were gone except M'Baku.

The movie already had to go through a rewrite after their leading man passed away. Factor in Covid and when was there time to bring in new cast members? They can't introduce new male characters from Wakanda while also introducing Namor and Talukan? They had to go with who was left which was the mostly female cast.

Under those circumstances it's perfectly understandable why the aren't many male characters.
you're literally proving other dude's point about all the time we spent in Taco-land and the Mayans taking away from world building in Wakanda. they also had time to introduce a divisive iron heart when they could've introduced a male character. suffice to say, people are well within their rights to feel annoyed by the lack of leading black men, it was a huge fukking gap and i find that problematic for what this franchise is.
 

Uptown WaYo87

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Lol thanks man.

But I'm actually already a working voice actor. I've been in numerous video games, animes, dubs and whatnot. My channel is the only thing I've ever promoted on this site though.

That's what's up man, I'm glad to hear that. Keep grinding!!
 

WIA20XX

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Some further thoughts on the film

Because T'Challa died of a disease (as opposed to assassination or something with a human actor), Shuri is sad. And I guess she's mad at herself for not being able to fix it.

Grief to Anger.

That said, her anger at herself somehow becomes her willingness to burn the world.

That's where they lose me.

I don't see that translating to her beefing with N'Amor. Especially when she wants to work things out at first. She'd try to reason with Captain Mexico, but he was like "nah".
 

Supa

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you're literally proving other dude's point about all the time we spent in Taco-land and the Mayans taking away from world building in Wakanda. they also had time to introduce a divisive iron heart when they could've introduced a male character. suffice to say, people are well within their rights to feel annoyed by the lack of leading black men, it was a huge fukking gap and i find that problematic for what this franchise is.

Black Panther doesn't exist outside of the MCU. Riri has a show coming up so Black Panther was the place to introduce her.

You want less time for the main antagonist to focus on smaller would be male characters who would only have a smaller role. That doesn't make much sense.

BP1 was where the world building of Wakanda took place. They weren't going to do a repeat of that.
 

dora_da_destroyer

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Black Panther doesn't exist outside of the MCU. Riri has a show coming up so Black Panther was the place to introduce her.

You want less time for the main antagonist to focus on smaller would be male characters who would only have a smaller role. That doesn't make much sense.

BP1 was where the world building of Wakanda took place. They weren't going to do a repeat of that.
no, i wanted a main male character. idgaf a riri show is coming, let her have her show. this is where people need to speak up and where ryan should've advocated more, we didn't need another woman in the story with ramonda, shuri, nakia and okoye playing so prominently....of course disney wants to shoehorn all their properties ahead, but someone should've stood up to the fact the re-write was lacking men and introduced a black male in the place of riri, let her do her thing on D+, she didn't need a intro via BP

and world building introduces new characters, just because we met some in BP1 doesn't mean we couldn't have met more people given how many men were killed off/unavailable for BP2
 

CHICAGO

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Some further thoughts on the film

Because T'Challa died of a disease (as opposed to assassination or something with a human actor), Shuri is sad. And I guess she's mad at herself for not being able to fix it.

Grief to Anger.

That said, her anger at herself somehow becomes her willingness to burn the world.

That's where they lose me.

I don't see that translating to her beefing with N'Amor. Especially when she wants to work things out at first. She'd try to reason with Captain Mexico, but he was like "nah".

:what:HER BEEF WITH NAMOR
COMES FROM HIM KILLING HER MOTHER.

:devil:
:evil:
 

CHICAGO

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For y’all to despise white people some of you “black men” have the same talking points these white mfs be having, shyt getting real weird around here.. mfs mad cuz a female is the lead? fukkin weirdos

:mjlol:IRONICALLY A BLACK WOMAN IS
THE MOST VOCAL ONE IN
HERE ABOUT NO BLACK MALE LEADS.

YOU nikkaS NEED
TO STOP PARROTING DUMB shyt.
:devil:
:evil:
 

TripleAgent

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That's a meh ass reason to make tho, because superheroes are always touted to taking the high road, whenever possible breh. Regardless of what race/culture they are. Just this summer, Spiderman went out his way to not kill Green Goblin after killing his last remaining parental figure as well. Steve Roger's risked getting himself killed not to kill Bucky.

Most of these superheroes will typically try to avoid killing whenever possible and even more especially premeditated, personal kills.
Goblin and Bucky are misguided friends. Namor threatened a geopolitical superpower, and killed their Queen, the lead character's mother and only relative. It's illogical, to say the least.
Do you have any idea how confusing it would be for a kid to have Atlanteans in both Aquaman and Black Panther. Aquaman beat them to the punch on Atlantis.
I know I'm of above average intelligence, but I understood Marvel/DC differences at single digit age. I give all but the smallest children the benefit of the doubt.

YEA THATS THE POINT...

IT SHOULD BE SOME
UNLIKELY ALLIANCE shyt
WHEN THEY TEAM UP.

NOT SOME YOU KILL
MY MOTHER AND I TURN THE
OTHER CHEEK DOCILE NEGRO shyt.

:devil:
:evil:

THIS
Honestly I think of black panther like marvels version of shakespearan plays. The acting, writing and delivery is elevated to a serious level compared to the usual marvel movies. It just feels more serious.

So I think they're using the characters to explore things like vengeance, grief, and how empathy can be a strength rather than a weakness. In the first movie, tchalla had so many reasons to erase killmonger, but he decided to spare him because he empathized with him. He recognized that if the roles were reversed, he would be doing the same thing. Killmonger's rage consumed him to the point where he almost destroyed the people who would have lifted him up and shown him the love he never got. To me he represents the rage that black people in America may feel towards Africans, and tchalla acknowledged that he is right to feel the way he did.

I get where you're coming from, but if you look closely the theme is present in every marvel character except maybe Thor in the second Thor movie and the third Thor movie had him realizing that he couldn't win against the villain and that he had to recognize as gard is a people not a place. The strength of black panther is that it's a series that solves marvels villain problem by giving you villains who actually are justified in their resentments. I think what's missing is the catharsis of seeing a hated enemy being killed, but these are family movies. Peter Parker doesn't kill anyone intentionally, Tony doesn't kill any of his opps, except Thanos but the price is his own life. Captain America had a chance to kill bucky but didn't, star lord's hasty decision fueled by rage led to Thanos walking away with a W. Tony's hatred for bucky broke up the avengers.

Anyone who intentionally kills an enemy in a marvel movie does it at a cost, so I think the overall message they want to send to youth is that revenge for its own sake is not something anyone should pursue. The REAL enemy in that movie was the CIA and European govts. I think it was a conscious decision to show every white character in that movie as duplicitous and untrustworthy.
I hear you, but I don't want to see "forgive, forgive" and "Black and Brown coalition" shyt. It's bullshyt IRL, and it came off as bullshyt here. It made little to no sense.
 

Scustin Bieburr

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Goblin and Bucky are misguided friends. Namor threatened a geopolitical superpower, and killed their Queen, the lead character's mother and only relative. It's illogical, to say the least.

I know I'm of above average intelligence, but I understood Marvel/DC differences at single digit age. I give all but the smallest children the benefit of the doubt.

THIS

I hear you, but I don't want to see "forgive, forgive" and "Black and Brown coalition" shyt. It's bullshyt IRL, and it came off as bullshyt here. It made little to no sense.
I get where you're coming from but remember, none of the marvel protagonists have really killed an opp for revenge and on purpose.

Spiderman didn't kill the green goblin even though he had EVERY reason to.

Thor didn't exact vengeance on any opponent successfully. In the first movie his opp was a robot, in the second movie I believe it was loki that dealt the final blow and in the third movie that sorceress was killed by the fire giant.

Tony didn't purposefully kill stane in the first movie, in the second movie he didn't kill whiplash, and in the third movie pepper killed the villain, not Tony. The one time Tony is motivated by revenge, he endangers a child, gets his best friend paralyzed, breaks up the avengers and nearly kills his hero.

Steve Roger's never kills any of his opps. He doesn't kill red skull, he doesn't kill bucky, and he refuses to kill Tony, zemo, or anyone else who he has a reason to kill.

Dr. Strange never kills anyone.

Ironically none of the avengers actually ever purposefully kill their opponents motivated by vengeance. It's on brand and it extends to black panther because at the end of the day, they know kids are watching and the goal is to tell them that revenge is not something one should pursue for its own sake.

Killmonger resents the wakandans and wants to use them to do colonialism and get revenge on cacs. In his rage, he destroys the means of making more black panther protectors because of his single minded obsession with revenge. His part resembles idi amin or Mugabe. Someone who was trained in the west who came back to Africa and terrorized his own people with what he learned. People hate hearing this, but he would've turned out to be a tyrant because he doesn't know how to be anything else BUT a killer. All he knows is violence because the one person that loved him was taken away from him.

In this movie shuri is someone overcome by grief. In less than 6 years she lost her father, mother and brother. She has every reason to be angry and because rage was in her heart, she didn't even get to see her brother, father or mother in the ancestral plane to say her final goodbyes. People died because she confused vengeance for justice and she realized if she's going to be a leader she needs to be able to take advice from more experienced people like m'baku or the elders. She ran the risk of being more like killmonger than tchalla. Remember, tchalla had EVERY REASON to brutally kill killmonger for everything he did, but he didn't and even stuck up for him in front of the ancestors. He showed killmonger grace because he was able to empathize with his point of view. I think shuri did the same thing with namor because she understood the position he was in. He wanted to work with wakanda to protect his family(he's the oldest one there, and to him all of his people are family) and wakanda said no. He wanted them to get him the scientist to give his people justice, wakanda protected the scientist. What else is he supposed to do in that position? She understood that too and realized at the end that having talocan as an ally is more important than having them as an enemy.

It's probably not in the movie as a deleted scene but I'm willing to bet they considered putting in a scene where she reflected on what might have happened if talocan helped when Thanos showed up. I think the next villain will be a white person. I think they've given enough hints to set up that it will be someone from the U.S. government or Dr. Doom, and when wakanda is attacked again, I can see a scene where namors royal guard and the Dora milaje team up and that shyt is going to be FIRE.

I think with the black and brown coalition thing I agree, but also recognize that the ultimate message in the movie was that cacs are not to be trusted. I liked seeing both sides of the conflict recognizing that fact. You could honestly make the argument that shuri fukked up by not saying "here's the kid breh, go ahead and do what you want. It's for the greater good so I get it. Peace" that's exactly what killmonger would've done, or would've jumped at the opportunity to team up with someone to eliminate everyone who is a threat.
 

Afro

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Goblin and Bucky are misguided friends. Namor threatened a geopolitical superpower, and killed their Queen, the lead character's mother and only relative. It's illogical, to say the least.

I know I'm of above average intelligence, but I understood Marvel/DC differences at single digit age. I give all but the smallest children the benefit of the doubt.

THIS

I hear you, but I don't want to see "forgive, forgive" and "Black and Brown coalition" shyt. It's bullshyt IRL, and it came off as bullshyt here. It made little to no sense.
I mean, say you are a Wakandan civilian and half your fam got washed away.

Forgiveness would be the last thing on my mind and your ruler (at the time) forgives the person who did all that?

Cold world :wow:
 

TripleAgent

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I get where you're coming from but remember, none of the marvel protagonists have really killed an opp for revenge and on purpose.

Spiderman didn't kill the green goblin even though he had EVERY reason to.

Thor didn't exact vengeance on any opponent successfully. In the first movie his opp was a robot, in the second movie I believe it was loki that dealt the final blow and in the third movie that sorceress was killed by the fire giant.

Tony didn't purposefully kill stane in the first movie, in the second movie he didn't kill whiplash, and in the third movie pepper killed the villain, not Tony. The one time Tony is motivated by revenge, he endangers a child, gets his best friend paralyzed, breaks up the avengers and nearly kills his hero.

Steve Roger's never kills any of his opps. He doesn't kill red skull, he doesn't kill bucky, and he refuses to kill Tony, zemo, or anyone else who he has a reason to kill.

Dr. Strange never kills anyone.

Ironically none of the avengers actually ever purposefully kill their opponents motivated by vengeance. It's on brand and it extends to black panther because at the end of the day, they know kids are watching and the goal is to tell them that revenge is not something one should pursue for its own sake.

Killmonger resents the wakandans and wants to use them to do colonialism and get revenge on cacs. In his rage, he destroys the means of making more black panther protectors because of his single minded obsession with revenge. His part resembles idi amin or Mugabe. Someone who was trained in the west who came back to Africa and terrorized his own people with what he learned. People hate hearing this, but he would've turned out to be a tyrant because he doesn't know how to be anything else BUT a killer. All he knows is violence because the one person that loved him was taken away from him.

In this movie shuri is someone overcome by grief. In less than 6 years she lost her father, mother and brother. She has every reason to be angry and because rage was in her heart, she didn't even get to see her brother, father or mother in the ancestral plane to say her final goodbyes. People died because she confused vengeance for justice and she realized if she's going to be a leader she needs to be able to take advice from more experienced people like m'baku or the elders. She ran the risk of being more like killmonger than tchalla. Remember, tchalla had EVERY REASON to brutally kill killmonger for everything he did, but he didn't and even stuck up for him in front of the ancestors. He showed killmonger grace because he was able to empathize with his point of view. I think shuri did the same thing with namor because she understood the position he was in. He wanted to work with wakanda to protect his family(he's the oldest one there, and to him all of his people are family) and wakanda said no. He wanted them to get him the scientist to give his people justice, wakanda protected the scientist. What else is he supposed to do in that position? She understood that too and realized at the end that having talocan as an ally is more important than having them as an enemy.

It's probably not in the movie as a deleted scene but I'm willing to bet they considered putting in a scene where she reflected on what might have happened if talocan helped when Thanos showed up. I think the next villain will be a white person. I think they've given enough hints to set up that it will be someone from the U.S. government or Dr. Doom, and when wakanda is attacked again, I can see a scene where namors royal guard and the Dora milaje team up and that shyt is going to be FIRE.

I think with the black and brown coalition thing I agree, but also recognize that the ultimate message in the movie was that cacs are not to be trusted. I liked seeing both sides of the conflict recognizing that fact. You could honestly make the argument that shuri fukked up by not saying "here's the kid breh, go ahead and do what you want. It's for the greater good so I get it. Peace" that's exactly what killmonger would've done, or would've jumped at the opportunity to team up with someone to eliminate everyone who is a threat.
None of these others is threatening to perform genocide on your people, completely aside from already drowning half the capital city and killing your mother. Again, completely illogical.
 
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