I find it strange how politically a lot of the coli has been sounding like alt right MAGA cacs and now they sound just like these nerdy cacs who complain about "woke" casting. Some of yall need to unplug from matrix because you're easily influenced and are being radicalized in the wrong direction.
There's no reason to not see this movie because there's not enough men. It's the same women from the first movie plus Riri. How p*ssy can you be to be intimidated by fictional strong black women in a comic book movie?
Yall got a self imposed boycott of Wakanda Forever and were doing the most to sabotage it's success but will be there first day for the next Superman or Batman movie
Okay, tell us how you would handle Namor. You making him white, Asian, alien...? Do you only want black villains?
Alright, just completed my second viewing. I'll be brief, sike.
The movie is exceptional. I choose my words carefully. Exceptional doesn't mean perfect. But among MCU movies in particular, this one, like its prequel and even moreso, represents an exception. It is much deeper and more grounded in several ways: its plot, its theme and the cultures it calls on the screen all add many layers to a flick that becomes much more than a regular superhero movie.
The way they integrated the real-life passing of Chadwick Boseman in the movie's main narrative was genius. Not only was it executed tastefully and in a manner that felt genuine and non-exploitative, that decision opened doors to deal with the theme of grief that I've never seen in cinema before. The actors grieve and it informs their performance (all amazing), and you as a viewer lowkey grieve too, because even though you didn't know the man, you know of him what he gave to you as his audience throughout his career and as a Black Panther. So the experience ends up being communal, inside the theatre room and through the screen as well, in a way I've never experienced before. That's why you can hear a pin drop in the room when the silent Marvel title card comes on. That's part of why this movie is not only exceptional among MCU movies, but among all other movies as well. What other movie dealt with such a loss in this manner, enriching itself like this in the process? I don't know any.
The story is excellent and well-written, and its relationship with the characters is strong. There were a lot of ideas I liked, especially when it comes to Shuri, who got through tremendous character development and became one of the most interesting in the MCU for me who didn't care much about her at all.
One of them is the back door for anger and bloodthirst they created in her character really helped in differentiating her from those that preceded her, and allowed, in a way, to let part of Killmonger live through her in those emotions that mirror his. Same thing for T'Challa and forgiveness. I wonder if they'll explore that aspect of her (angry, vengeful) in later movies.
The scope of the movie expands considerably, horizontally and vertically, as the weight of T'Challa's hard decision to reveal Wakanda to the world in the prequel brings in many new entities, known and unknown. The geopolitical aspects were among my favorite narrative threads. The prequel also dealt with geopolitics but it focused more on the dilemma between self-preservation/hostility and openness/partnership, on an international scale. It was no question that Wakanda had the vibranium and the strength, it was moreso about how it should use it and the place the country should hold in the global world. This one is about resources and the consequences of having them for vulnerable nations. Here again, real-world situations echo throughout the plot as nations agressively compete for vibranium and try to take advantage of the Black Panther's death to get a leg up in the race. The snide French attack on Wakanda's advanced outpost in Mali was chef's kiss parallelism Same thing for the US scouring the deep waters for vibranium and preparing sneaky destabilization plans for Wakanda.
But T'Challa's decision did not have only negative impacts. A Wakandan teaches children in Haïti how to use their own resources to grow food. Wakanda puts itself on the line to protect a young African American scientist, whereas it would have hung her out to dry or even killed her before and even Killmonger recognizes it.
It's in this context, in addition to the historical weight of the politics and human behaviors he witnessed for like 500 years, that Namor really shines.
His motives and understanding of the situations presented to him make perfect sense. His ancestors were killed, displaced, forced into servitude when the colonizers laid their eyes on their lands and resources, so he's terrified of Talokan and its vibranium being discovered in this day and age (plus it's not like his people can even blend in with those on the surface). So he's more than happy to live hidden in a country no one knows about, like Wakanda before. But T'Challa's decision to reveal the country changed the whole game and sent the entire world at his door. Now they got machines that detect vibranium under water. So he knows it's only a matter of time before Christo Colombus episode 2.
I already talked about Shuri's decision to spare Namor here:
But I want to add that you can see her keen political instinct even before. When she talks with Namor, she is firm in her decision that she can't stand for Namor killing Riri; but she also offers another peaceful alternative (that Namor then twists into an alliance to get into war).
When Nakia comes to rescue her, she understands immediately that killing Namor's people in a sneak attack will mean war, even though she fails to save the guard.
All this smoothie of real-life and fictional historical and modern day events that are intertwined with each other and inform the characters' beliefs and actions could have not been achieved if Coogler did not have what I think is the 2nd genius idea of this movie, rooting Namor and his people in Ancient Mayan civilization. It brought so much to the movie. Not only it gave a unique spin to something we've seen numerous times and not too long ago in Aquaman, it wasn't here just to be pretty. It strengthened the plot and the themes of the movie tremendously, while adding yet another cultural layer to a movie that already had several. The balancing act was successful too because Wakanda wasn't in the background. We've seen even more of it, which was my sole expectation, and what they showed was dope. Between the water drums that acted as a coded padlock for the gates, the AI named GRIOT, the drippy asf River Tribe pulling up to the UN with the single synthetic braid, the Wakandan first-aiders units in their yellow suits and kufis, the Royal Ship that looks like a giant floating African mask seen from below (the scene where it pulls Chadwick's coffin and glides away at the beginning stunned me), Wakandan funeral rites, their scientific dress and tools, the different designs for their military aircrafts, fire, fire, fire. To me, it's the other thing that propels these movies above the rest, their take on different real cultures mixed with fantasy elements is something that you rarely see on screen but looks so dope and fresh it can only help expand your mind, especially as a fellow artist.
In terms of action and visuals, the movie really stepped up compared to the first one. Many more action scenes with much better choreographies. The fight between Okoye and the Talochian squad on the bridge was fire. That slowmo when a water bomb sent Okoye's car and Shuri flying was The way Namor moved was great too. He didn't fly à la Superman, he looked like he was rollerskating in the air and attacking like an insect, almost. The CGI was solid most of the time and in line with what the MCU does these days. There were a couple of moments where you could feel the green screen presence, but not anymore than in other Marvel stuff. The direction was great and Ryan Coogler did his famous one-take scene just as smoothly as ever. I would even say he adventured into some horror during the introduction of the Talochians, and it worked. The sudden disappearance of the diver under water, the heads floating in formation on the surface... Even the siren song's effect was chilling, and seeing all those people kill themselves and fall down in the black depths, just lit up by the moonlight This arc we're in of Black folks doing horror is dope.
I briefly touched on the actors' performances but I'll come back to it again: they were stellar. The throne scene was Angela Basset reminded me of the mom that ethers you by spitting facts on facts on facts, to the point you can't even say nothing of substance and just have to take it (loved the fact she brought up her siding with Killmonger, showing it wasn't just forgotten and left scars, especially with T'Challa's passing). Danai Gurira in that scene (and in general) was amazing too. Letitia Wright stepped up to the occasion and was great. When Shuri got mad at M'Baku and told her she wanted Namor dead and he was about to help with no discussion Winston Duke was just as excellent as in the first one and showed even more nuance with his character. I thought it was my first time seeing Dominique Thorne but afterwards I realized she was in Judas and the Black Messiah, another role she killed, so I'm not surprised she was great here too. Tenoch De La Huerta, Lupita Nyong'o, fantastic as well. Solid performances all around.
The score was good too. It didn't leave me as strong an impression as in the prequel, even though I liked how they integrated the background music from the movie's playlist into some scenes.
I found some parts meh. Not bad, but meh. I was very curious about Riri Williams and I still am, but the segment around her in Boston felt like it could have been executed better, imho. I think the jokes just missed me and even if it helped display her personality which I like, I wish it gave more of her normal non-agitated self to us, which the rest of the movie fortunately did. Didn't like the trope of the "spelling out equation and theorems' names to show you I'm smart" neither. I tolerate it for Peter Parker, but I guess it's because they execute it better at this point by at least giving it an interesting outcome in the form of a joke or an unexpected action scene. Just a detail but hey.
CIA Colonizer Ross parts were aight too. He was necessary to the narrative and didn't take away from it, but didn't add much neither. The ex-wife did nothing for me but I don't know her character. Does she appear in some Disney+ series I skipped?
Last part that I found was below the rest was the inclusion of Aneka. I get it, Disney has an explicit agenda to include LGBT+ characters in its products. But that last scene kiss shyt gotta stop. She was almost totally absent from the movie besides two brief fights and her being in the aircraft with Shuri when Namor attacks Wakanda (in such way I couldn't even tell what she was doing in there. Was she piloting? Shooting? Or was that Shuri?). I don't have an issue with her forming a couple with Ayo (ironic name in this situation ), it makes sense (we all know how it goes down in female sports, imagine an all-female warrior unit) but damn, give them more to work with if you want this to come off as genuine.
I think I'll cut it here, I have many other thoughts but I don't want to be too wordy.
Also probably gonna be my last post, at least for a while, because for as many cool folks there definitely are on this forum, there are almost as many people stuck on stupid and just weirdo shyt in general, and sometimes it looks like the patients are running the asylum. I started posting here hoping to avoid the weird internet politics festering a little bit everywhere only to find them simmering here too, even, or especially, when it comes to race. The fact that this movie brings out so much insecurity and insane takes out of this forum shows, among many other topics, that I was misguided thinking it would be different in the first place.
I think RiRi's intro is a little muddled due to them switching it up from the comics but probably still wanting to leave some meat on the bone for her upcoming Disney+ show. In the comics, she's younger (15 versus 19 in the movie), and her origin is pretty closely tied into Iron Man directly. But i also imagine that's more of a show thing, since Shuri asked about her diagram being Stark tech, and it never came up again (just like her professor happening to "challenge" her to make a Vibranium detector, and it just happening to find its way to the CIA).
Also, Ross' ex wife shows up at the end of Black Widow, and in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. She's rounding up former villains and anti-villains like a reverse Nick Fury for the Thunderbolts movie.
Complaining that the PEOPLE OF fukkING ATLANTIS were not portrayed 'comic accurate', or complanining that they have origins to an actual race, is next level pathetic and "trying to find something to complain about" status.
Complaining about the lack of black male representation isn't something I care about in this fictional movie but at least its an argument I'll hear as long as it isn't rooted in woman-hating...but complaining about Namor having Mayan lineage is fukkin insane
Brehs are really mad that they aren't accurate to completely made up, nonexistent race of people who live in an equally made up and nonexistent underwater city, and instead have real world ties to make them palatable.
Complaining that the PEOPLE OF fukkING ATLANTIS were not portrayed 'comic accurate', or complanining that they have origins to an actual race, is next level pathetic and "trying to find something to complain about" status.
Complaining about the lack of black male representation isn't something I care about in this fictional movie but at least its an argument I'll hear as long as it isn't rooted in woman-hating...but complaining about Namor having Mayan lineage is fukkin insane
The Talokan hardly hijacked the movie. Outside of Namor, their characters weren't even that developed (a run-time issue more than anything) and their origin scenes was all of 10 minutes in a 165 minute movie. They literally got 15 minutes of fame and ninjas losing their mind. Would you rather have another set of throway marvel villains really?! The plot had them in the center because they're the main antagonists (on the surface anyways ), so they should get some noteworthy attention.
And as much as I like Winston Duke's M'Baku here, even more than the first movie, which his re-write also isn't too comic book accurate, by all rights, he SHOULD BE getting washed by Namor and any Black Panther in context of the MCU for him. He's a regular human with no suit at the end of the day.
At this point in history I would hope y'all get past embodying this stereotype of black men not being able to mentally function outside of the capabilities of their dikks
I get that it's reactionary and fun(?) to have that go to in lieu of substantive points but that shyt ain't the argument ender y'all think it is.
I used to do that same shyt until one day I realized how corny it was and the fact that ONLY us black men do that shyt
Some nikkas like the movie, some don't, some are in between. There are points to be made on all sides.
Be better than this "You must not get no hoes if you don't like this" rhetoric. It explicitly displays you as the low vibrational beasts these crackas already think you are
I get why motivation wise per the story, the desire for Namor being killed, but there's too many other reasons why that wouldn't be the play to make here.
I loved it and I'm a marvel hater
Mid point lost me a little bit as wasn't a fan of iron heart but the first 40 mins were amazing and it had a solid landing
At this point in history I would hope y'all get past embodying this stereotype of black men not being able to mentally function outside of the capabilities of their dikks
I get that it's reactionary and fun(?) to have that go to in lieu of substantive points but that shyt ain't the argument ender y'all think it is.
I used to do that same shyt until one day I realized how corny it was and the fact that ONLY us black men do that shyt
Some nikkas like the movie, some don't, some are in between. There are points to be made on all sides.
Be better than this "You must not get no hoes if you don't like this" rhetoric. It explicitly displays you as the low vibrational beasts these crackas already think you are
I get why motivation wise per the story, the desire for Namor being killed, but there's too many other reasons why that wouldn't be the play to make here.
one complaint I been seeing from the crowd that didnt like the inclusion of Talokan that I wanted to address:
Some folks are mad saying Talokan takes away from the afro-futurism and tech capabilities of Wakanda - saying how come they are stronger and seemingly more advanced
I don't think they are "more advanced" - to me, it still seems like Wakanda uses and implements vibranium in a lot more versatile ways
they are only "physically stronger" due to living in the high pressure deep ocean, which makes them durable - they aren't necessary better fighters cuz Okoye with no powers was taking on 4 of them including Attuma
the way I took it, Talokan is a pre-hispanic Mayan civilization, so their use of vibranium changed their physiology and they implement it in their way of living ... but since they basically went underwater centuries ago, they never felt the need to "modernize" ... we don't know enough about Talokan to say they were more advanced at all, they just have the numbers on their side in the battle, but they still overly relied on Namor doing most of the damage
As far as I can tell, Talokans uses vibranium "differently" than Wakanda, but Wakanda is still the leader of vibranium and the tech involved, just cuz Talokan figured out how to generate power underwater ("bringing the sun to Talokan"), dosn't mean they are "better" tech wise, its just geared towards living underwater lol
It's funny in this climate that people would rather have a lilly White Namor and his sea cac civilization put the beats on Wakanda and drown its golden city. The takes and discourse on social media would be even worse than they are now.
If he was Korean they'd be calling it a handout in response to Stop Asian Hate
The only solution is to remove Namor entirely.
What other comic book movie do people go into with so much personal baggage and insecurity? They want Black Panther with strong males, submissive women, no other races, a recast T'challa all to fill some void that has nothing to do with entertainment. Grown ass men trying to live vicariously through a movie
The Talokan hardly hijacked the movie. Outside of Namor, their characters weren't even that developed (a run-time issue more than anything) and their origin scenes was all of 10 minutes in a 165 minute movie. They literally got 15 minutes of fame and ninjas losing their mind. Would you rather have another set of throway marvel villains really?! The plot had them in the center because they're the main antagonists (on the surface anyways ), so they should get some noteworthy attention.
And as much as I like Winston Duke's M'Baku here, even more than the first movie, which his re-write also isn't too comic book accurate, by all rights, he SHOULD BE getting washed by Namor and any Black Panther in context of the MCU for him. He's a regular human with no suit at the end of the day.
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Same thing for the US scouring the deep waters for vibranium and preparing sneaky destabilization plans for Wakanda.
The way Namor moved was great too. He didn't fly à la Superman, he looked like he was rollerskating in the air and attacking like an insect, almost. The CGI was solid most of the time and in line with what the MCU does these days. There were a couple of moments where you could feel the green screen presence, but not anymore than in other Marvel stuff. The direction was great and Ryan Coogler did his famous one-take scene just as smoothly as ever. 
Angela Basset reminded me of the mom that ethers you by spitting facts on facts on facts, to the point you can't even say nothing of substance and just have to take it (loved the fact she brought up her siding with Killmonger, showing it wasn't just forgotten and left scars, especially with T'Challa's passing). Danai Gurira in that scene (and in general) was amazing too. Letitia Wright stepped up to the occasion and was great. When Shuri got mad at M'Baku and told her she wanted Namor dead and he was about to help with no discussion 
Winston Duke was just as excellent as in the first one and showed even more nuance with his character. I thought it was my first time seeing Dominique Thorne but afterwards I realized she was in Judas and the Black Messiah, another role she killed, so I'm not surprised she was great here too. Tenoch De La Huerta, Lupita Nyong'o, fantastic as well. Solid performances all around.
), it makes sense (we all know how it goes down in female sports, imagine an all-female warrior unit) but damn, give them more to work with if you want this to come off as genuine.
nikka was just there to have nikkas strength displayed on him
), so they should get some noteworthy attention.
STANDING UNITED AS THEY
