AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Unfortunately for you, that isn't a popular opinion.
Well take solace WB actually did stick with Snyder for JL. Then he had an unfortunate family situation. Art has to take a back seat to circumstances and commerce sometimes.
Official 'JUSTICE LEAGUE' Thread
- Thread starter Lefty Gunz
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Well take solace WB actually did stick with Snyder for JL. Then he had an unfortunate family situation. Art has to take a back seat to circumstances and commerce sometimes.
I'm still going to watch it and I'm not even saying the film will be bad,but it just won't be snyder's original vision and I don't think that's debatable.
You're right it's so many rumours it's hard to tell what's true and what isn't.
I've read things about lex being cut,the ending being changed,cyborg character being changed, new sub plot being added etc It could all be noise or it could have some truth somewhere.
I'm still going to watch it but man, the proof is in the pudding in the trailers.
The first trailer and comic con footage was all snyder. Every frame was him.
That new comic con footage it was painfully obvious it wasn't his film anymore. Shots had been altered,the coloring and grading tweaked,meta joke about Burton films. That was a product of whedon and there's no doubt about it. It didn't even look like a snyder film anymore.
I just get the feeling this film has been hacked to death by whedon and the studio to the point it's going to be the safest,most boring,sterilized film they can make.
People always talk about super hero fatigue but the fastest way that comes is if every film is cookie cutter and formulaic and exactly the same.
I'd rather a studio go for home runs and miss every once in a while then watch a team play fundamentals all day.
I'll take some lows for those big highs that you get when a studio produces something like Logan after making origins then have my brain fall in a coma watching shyt like the thor films.
We will see what happens. I'm just saying I have low expectations and my interest is waning.
My problem with whedon is 1)he's just a bad director. He has the same talent level of a Kevin Smith.
And more importantly his writing. I can feel the seams of the film making process with his writing. I hear characters talk and all I can hear is whedon,it doesn't matter what character it is.
I know @MartyMcFly loves him but it's the same problem I have with Aaron sorkin. Just watch the first season of the newsroom. Yeah every character is a character but they all talk the same. It's obvious as fukk it's 1 writer.
I don't feel like I'm watching real people talk with either writer,just some guy trying to be witty behind a keyboard.
Unfortunately for you, that isn't a popular opinion.
Well take solace WB actually did stick with Snyder for JL. Then he had an unfortunate family situation. Art has to take a back seat to circumstances and commerce sometimes.
Critics didn't like it, but by every 'public' rating I've seen (although I don't hold much stock in them, just like I don't do for critics) it was actually well liked so 'popular opinion' wasn't negative in that sense.
WB was stuck with Snyder. The fact that they let Whedon get rid of Junkie XL tells me all I need to know
The ironic thing is people said wb didn't have a plan,when it's obvious they did. Snyder had a time line and a sequence of films and a over arching story.
The irony is that now that he's gone is they don't seem to have a plan.
Of course you'll never win with some people. Do something different than marvel and they'll say you're dumb and shouldn't be doing it that way. Do it the same way as marvel and you're copying and garbage.
You got people claiming cyborg was never going to be a film it was just announced for Internet points and it not being shown at comic con was proof this year. Yeah,couldn't possibly be because it was part of snyder's plan and now he's gone and it's probably been put on the back burner without him Sheparding it. It's because Internet cool points.
I mean you already had people saying the snyder's didn't deserve credit for bringing a wonder woman film to fruition because it would have happened anyway. Which is bullshyt,she hadn't had a film for 70 years and the people who decide to push for it apparently shouldn't get credit
Which is why you should watch the west wing and not the newsroom
It's good for a writer to have a voice but you layer those personalities and he did that in the west wing but didn't do it in the newsroom so I agree with you. But there's a difference between president Bartlett and Leo. Cj Craig and josh Lyman aren't the same people and he was much much better about that there. Joss' writing on Buffy was much better than the avengers movies because he took time to make sure each character was their own and there are moments of that in the avengers movies but everyone having his sense of humor overtook those moments for some so I get that.
Based on what you said about the trailers again I'd relax. That's an assumption you're makin based on rumor and a loose assortment of facts rather than actual data to back it up. Because a rumor I read is nothing new was in that trailer at all and that was all stuff zack shot the way he wanted it shot. I'd just stay away from all the bullshyt wait till November and then the aftermath when the truth will come out because it always does lol. Right now there are only a select group of people who know the truth and none of them are in this forum....as far as I know
But there is no debating that shots were altered. The comparisons pictures are out there.
See the whole situation sucks because it's a family tragedy.
When wb said joss was coming to just finish some pick ups and were still delivering snyder's vision I wanted to believe them.
But when you are altering already filmed shots,firing his composer etc well you aren't being true to your word.
And again,maybe I'm reading into it but snyder suddenly dropping the justice League avatar,banner and mentions from his twitter suddenly to me spoke volumes.
I think it's a bit of A and B. These were things that were probably going to happen in Post anyway. They always do. But because of the rumor and the stuff you mentioned it seems more insidious than it probably is. And I'm not even saying you're wrong because like Sway, I don't have the answers. But I do know it's easy to react rather than play it cool and let shyt play out and I'd rather let November come and make my decision then rather than now. You could very well be spot on with everything you're saying or it could be much ado about nothing so until someone tells us the actual truth and we stop running with every damn rumor or innuendo about this movie, confusion will be the word of the day.
Well the difference between Buffy and avengers,or newsroom and west wing is that Buffy and west wing were products of teams. Sorkin and whedon weren't in complete and utter control of all writing and dialogue in those shows,there was writers rooms and other voices. Newsroom is sorkin pure and unfiltered by himself.Which is why you should watch the west wing and not the newsroom
It's good for a writer to have a voice but you layer those personalities and he did that in the west wing but didn't do it in the newsroom so I agree with you. But there's a difference between president Bartlett and Leo. Cj Craig and josh Lyman aren't the same people and he was much much better about that there. Joss' writing on Buffy was much better than the avengers movies because he took time to make sure each character was their own and there are moments of that in the avengers movies but everyone having his sense of humor overtook those moments for some so I get that.
And you could say well maybe snyder and whedon collaborating could bring out the best in both,and that's what a lot of people are hoping. But this isn't really a true collaboration it's one film maker coming and trying to paste his vision over top of another's.
We will see.
Yeah as ive said I'll watch and determine my own thoughts.
I did just read a batch of rumours about the changes made,and I don't know if they're true but they do sound true,and if they do come true I'm going to hate it. But they could also be 100% bullshyt.
I'll post them in spoilers in a minute
Nah west wing was the same way newsroom was: Aaron had a staff of writers who gave him ideas and they talked through stuff but he still penned every single script. Same thing with newsroom. I just think he fell too in love with himself on newsroom and stretched himself way too thin. He's always has collaborators but ultimately the buck stops with him and I think after the first episode of newsroom he said all he needed to say and didn't realize it. It's why something like Steve jobs works or social network works but newsroom doesn't. He shot his wad early and was spinning his wheels for three seasons.
I can't speak for joss with Buffy tho because while I like him as a writer I don't love him as one like I do Sorkin.
Grain of salt
All sounds plausible.
Lex Luthor has been entirely cut.
Henry Allen has been entirely cut.
Deathstroke has been entirely cut.
Darkseid has been entirely cut.
The Knightmare is not addressed.
Wonder Woman is present when Steppenwolf steals the Amazons' Mother Box from Themyscira and vows revenge. This was included to set up Steppenwolf's new death scene.
Additional scene of Alfred picking up Batman in Amnesty Bay after Aquaman rejects him.
Additional scene of Flash and Cyborg discussing their backgrounds on their way to the Parademons' nest and developing a bond.
Minor dialogue additions throughout.
The Harvester subplot was entirely added in reshoots, restructuring the third act which was originally just an alien invasion.
Superman's subplot is altered. Rather than flee from Metropolis due to self-doubt, he does it to see Lois and Martha and let them know he's fine before immediately joining the battle.
Additional scene of Superman meeting Alfred before heading to Venezuela.
Additional scene of Superman saving Metropolis from the Harvester's effects and reassuring the people that everything will be fine.
Cyborg's subplot is altered. Rather than doubt himself and be reassured by Batman, Cyborg is the one who rallies the League using a football metaphor that later inspires the team's name.
Additional scene of Cyborg and Silas watching Cyborg's old college football games together.
Steppenwolf's demisse is changed. Originally he'd be beamed back to Apokolips by Cyborg and executed by Darkseid for faiIing to conquer Earth. Now Wonder Woman will punch him into the Harvester's beam and disintegrate him.
Henry Allen has been entirely cut.
Deathstroke has been entirely cut.
Darkseid has been entirely cut.
The Knightmare is not addressed.
Wonder Woman is present when Steppenwolf steals the Amazons' Mother Box from Themyscira and vows revenge. This was included to set up Steppenwolf's new death scene.
Additional scene of Alfred picking up Batman in Amnesty Bay after Aquaman rejects him.
Additional scene of Flash and Cyborg discussing their backgrounds on their way to the Parademons' nest and developing a bond.
Minor dialogue additions throughout.
The Harvester subplot was entirely added in reshoots, restructuring the third act which was originally just an alien invasion.
Superman's subplot is altered. Rather than flee from Metropolis due to self-doubt, he does it to see Lois and Martha and let them know he's fine before immediately joining the battle.
Additional scene of Superman meeting Alfred before heading to Venezuela.
Additional scene of Superman saving Metropolis from the Harvester's effects and reassuring the people that everything will be fine.
Cyborg's subplot is altered. Rather than doubt himself and be reassured by Batman, Cyborg is the one who rallies the League using a football metaphor that later inspires the team's name.
Additional scene of Cyborg and Silas watching Cyborg's old college football games together.
Steppenwolf's demisse is changed. Originally he'd be beamed back to Apokolips by Cyborg and executed by Darkseid for faiIing to conquer Earth. Now Wonder Woman will punch him into the Harvester's beam and disintegrate him.
All sounds plausible.
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
We can just disagree on how well received it was I guess. It just wasn't IMO.Critics didn't like it, but by every 'public' rating I've seen (although I don't hold much stock in them, just like I don't do for critics) it was actually well liked so 'popular opinion' wasn't negative in that sense.
WB was stuck with Snyder. The fact that they let Whedon get rid of Junkie XL tells me all I need to know
Snyder had to quit and lol @ knowing everything you needed to know before seeing the actual movie.
All that dumb shyt that was cut makes the movie less long and cluttered. Which is a win
