Official JOKER Thread (SPOILERS)

[Hawaiian Punch]

It’s funny but one of my favorite scenes was when Arthur was in the hospital with his mother and he was watching the Murray show on tv. The look in his eyes when they laughed. It just cut to the core. Reminded me of this.

 

[hex]

If this movie was any other movie that didn’t have the Joker as the titular character, you would be rooting for joker. The story is told from his perspective and he had been wronged by the majority of people he killed. It’s a classic revenge story, yeah he kills them which is effed up but he doesn’t kill in this film without reason with the exception of the psychiatrist at the end. It’s the classic story of the person being bullied getting revenge on the bullies and the people who abused him. Couple that with the fact that the protestors see him as an icon representing the poor fighting against the rich, you’re damn right he is an anti hero in this film.

Again,

I don't know who you got me confused with but no the fukk I wouldn't be rooting for Joker. Or any character like him. I'm a "Breaking Bad" stan and I consider Walt a great character....but he's a piece of shyt. I don't get why this is so hard for you to understand.

The problem with your logic is you're saying "wronged" which breezes over what actually happened. All Murray did was make fun of him. a$$hole behavior? 100% Worthy of being shot in the fukking face? Hell no.

Same goes for big dude that gave Arthur the gun. Same goes for his mother.

You can't say "well, except for the psychiatrist at the end" because that killing alone would make him a stone cold psycho in real life.

"Yeah, aside from murdering that completely innocent person that was trying to help him....he's an anti-hero, breh."
It's like....what?

Lastly, and for the second time....you keep mentioning the protesters as if they didn't completely misinterpret his actions.

Dude killed 3 guys because he was angry and the public "it's time to start a class war."

He even point blank said at the end he don't give a fukk about causes or any of that shyt. The protesters turning him into an icon was obviously misguided as fukk....so why use them as an example of what he actually is?

Fred.

 

[Art Barr]

Oh and at whoever said they can't see this Joker going up against Batman.

Dude had the whole city behind him by the time the movie ended, he could definitely go toe-to-toe (not fighting, I mean as far as being a threat) with Batman.

It's a moot point though because this is a one off.

Fred.

you see how in their revenue grab wack greed.
how much money they left on the table,....again.
plus,...how much actual goodwill they could have actually made to the consumer. By being prescient in reviewing the film.
instead of all the bungling greedy hands in the pot.
Yet so many ignorant bungling fukk up greedy hands in the pot.
They can not see the forest for the trees.

to see,...
oh hey,....
our comics that we pull the storied from they actually tell this story.
as a matter of fact.
we can tie this in and relaunch the new better film version of Batman that could make sense.
instead,...all we got was a legacy filmhouse rehash.
with joker plastered on it and it has nuffin to do with a cot damn thing. Beside show me a fukk'n loser and then not even offer me a hero worth a cot damn.
in a time,....when they need to give us one fukk'n EXCELLENT GREAT fukk'N HERO.
little biys need one great action fukk'n hero.
little girls need to know little boys got one great hero and wtf that is.
plus they need to get a great fukk'n girl hero.


we do not want no fukk'n villain story.
fukk the villain.

did i ever give a flying fukk about lotor.
fukk no.
did i ever give a fukk about zarcon, fukk no.
baron harconnen,...fukk no.
feyd rabine,...no.


I am tired if that bullshyt American we are the pirates cliche.
America should be tired of that villain we are the pirates on dock cliche.

especially, when it is told by some ho ass hacks.

who do not know wtf.
they really are doing for real.


this was a movie made by a motherfukker.
who do not know shyt about making a fukk'n joker or Batman picture.

Plus it totally misses at this point.
showing the real elaborate joker.
as this film could have easily created the joker.
plus why after all this time.
globally, the joker is the mastermind, the joker as a literary character is.

this film did nuffin but show us some lame ass loser.

where I would be more entertained in what if elseworld vertigo fashion.
if he seguedway.
to breaking the fourth wall and got shot by the motherfukker from kick ass.


fukk this Batman.
that is not the joker but is the joker but not batman in any way what so ever. Let alone a joker film at all.

shyt is like saying every huff ass rapper can be forty cal.

this is some bullshyt.

if you really really up to speed on who the joker is.
over every idea and vertigo elseworld Batman.

plus, it totally missed every real marker for a real joker origin.
as fleck is just some random piece of deflection artist shyt.

fukk dude.
fukk this trope of a movie.

as real talk.
why in the fukk are we supposed to give fukk about watching and giving this movie a good review.

this shyt like watching a stoopid ass three year old get to read a comic.
While never being taught how to read a comic.
including never learned how to read a comic.




art barr

 

[dangerranger]

Again,

I don't know who you got me confused with but no the fukk I wouldn't be rooting for Joker. Or any character like him. I'm a "Breaking Bad" stan and I consider Walt a great character....but he's a piece of shyt. I don't get why this is so hard for you to understand.

The problem with your logic is you're saying "wronged" which breezes over what actually happened. All Murray did was make fun of him. a$$hole behavior? 100% Worthy of being shot in the fukking face? Hell no.

Same goes for big dude that gave Arthur the gun. Same goes for his mother.

You can't say "well, except for the psychiatrist at the end" because that killing alone would make him a stone cold psycho in real life.

"Yeah, aside from murdering that completely innocent person that was trying to help him....he's an anti-hero, breh."
It's like....what?

Lastly, and for the second time....you keep mentioning the protesters as if they didn't completely misinterpret his actions.

Dude killed 3 guys because he was angry and the public "it's time to start a class war."

He even point blank said at the end he don't give a fukk about causes or any of that shyt. The protesters turning him into an icon was obviously misguided as fukk....so why use them as an example of what he actually is?

Fred.

Obviously you keep misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not talking about you personally. It's like you taking this as an offense like I'm talking about you specifically. So relax first of all. I'm not justifying what Arthur did on some yeah I would do the same. I'm saying from a narrative perspective, the story is told from his point of view but the film makes no effort to indicate what Arthur goes through is wrong. We know right and wrong intrinsically but the way the film is plotted out, Arthur is getting revenge on the people that have wronged him. The way the film is told, what Arthur does is not an indictment on him. He evens say it "What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that abandons him and treats him like trash?". His line is an indictment on society. It's one of the reasons when people talk and praise this film they are talking about the mental health aspect because they are saying you know what I get it. This is what can happen. So there's this underlying sentiment of people not agreeing with what Arthur's done but understanding why he did what he did. That in itself is why looking at Arthur as a full blown villain in this film is incorrect because the story isn't told that way. He gets his revenge on people that harmed him first.

Also, you and I may know that Arthur doesn't care about the protests and the class war, but that's because we are the audience. The protestors don't know that. So in the end no matter what you say, in the context of the film, they see him as a hero.

One of the weird things about this forum in particular is when people have a difference of opinion some of you take it like it's a slight to yourself. No one is talking about you, so please stop wrapping yourself up in these discussions like I'm personally dissing you. This whole "I don't know who you got me confused with" is crazy talk as my comment wasn't directed at you in the first place.

 

[jwinfield]

Lastly, and for the second time....you keep mentioning the protesters as if they didn't completely misinterpret his actions.

Dude killed 3 guys because he was angry and the public "it's time to start a class war."

He even point blank said at the end he don't give a fukk about causes or any of that shyt. The protesters turning him into an icon was obviously misguided as fukk....so why use them as an example of what he actually is?

To add to this, there have been multiple iterations of Gotham where it's painted as an absolute piece of shyt full of shytty people in it before, this is no different.

A bunch of shytty people going over Joker killing 3 people and shooting a late night talk show host in the face doesn't make him a hero. It just makes them all pieces of shyt.

 

[Art Barr]

But even bad people can be empathized and there's an abundance of evidence to show why he is who he is. He wasn't dealt a hand of cards the average person is. Children shouldn't have an upbringing like that.

no they can not.
only people who say bad people can be emphasized are not full well versed or educated.

as a matter of fact.
Steve ditko covered this extensively as an artist.

that at this point in comic lore.
If we flirting around the elseworld wall.
all that informational braintrust should be known to even discuss comic or any medium in comics. Especially a comic that is an elseworld obvious outside the comic code based ideal comic film.



Art Barr

 

[Art Barr]

To add to this, Gotham has been painted as an absolute piece of shyt full of shytty people in it before, this is no different.

A bunch of shytty people going over Joker killing 3 people and shooting a late night talk show host in the face doesn't make him a hero. It just makes them all pieces of shyt.

that is why this movie is stoopid.
it tried to fetish violence disguised as an elseworld comic book film.

When it would work if it was not Batman.

when, Batman is already batman.
the joker is already joker in any real cannon or elseworld iteration or fashion.

this movie is being positively reviewed by hacks. Who really now are showing they really do not know the medium they are discussing.
they are just discussing public revenue. They are not discussing real component of that industry and the product indepthly for real.

if they were.
the chief neg for this movie.
is easily it was made by hack. Who REALLY DO NOT KNOW BATMAN AND REALLY DO NOT KNOW JOKER.

plus do not know. The joker they just tried to sell as a one off.
is actually wack as the joker. Plus a far cry from wtf the joker really be on at all.

even in origin.
to the point,...
if they could have been well versed in batman and joker vertifo iterations, just to stsrt.
then created the entire batman and dc film universe and rubrick.
all from the miscues and buffoonery in concept and content of this film.


this is like if ANDY kubrick made a batman movie and it did not have Batman in it.
this is like when people shyt on the dune movie too.
this is the same thing. It is not batman.
it definitely is not a joker origin film either.
the problem is people give this pass to batman.
that wb is gonna continue to revenue grab on.
till you marks let good ole bats die in his belfry.
or you force dc to make you a real batman and joker.
as real talk. This movie falls completely flat. From any animated joker.
let alone the elseworld vertigo style comic joker. When not to mention compared to the ledger joker. This joker is huff as fukk too. As he did nuffin, that the joker is about at all. He did not even use slight of hand. Nor, deflection/deception masterfully at all. When the joker has always been presented as a terribly brilliant from jump character. Not a hapless Munchausen addled and affected victim of a failed trick baby piece of shyt moms. With a failed eic run on a whale. Sorry, not buying it. Plus it had a chance to finally create a plausible villain origin for a batman movie. That could have created an entire batman concurrent franchise. it could have made Thomas Wayne, Damien Wayne, Talia, brought complete importance to Martha Wayne, ras, five to six robins. all with a joker. That could and has shown he can kill them all.
in feral ferocity missing from every telegraph the L villain soliloquay based joker in film adaptation in movie history. It could have totally righted any and every batman wrong. Plus create goodwill and actual plausible characters in a Batman universe.
that made fukk'n sense. It had to create motive and most importantly show motive. Instead.
all we got was the same wb vertigo relaunch of another vertigo style joker.


when are we gonna get the good and real joker and batman of the vertigo imprint..

this shyt is like the original ghostbusters from filmmation versus the real ghostbusters.

it took the real ghostbusters to go through legal and hoops of bullshyt to film to the animated. So when the real ghostbusters the animated started. They made sure they had the best story. That concurrently picked up. Right after the first ghostbusters live action movie. Where it tied into a complex story about responsibility and disguised it as a proper waste management piece as well. Plus played concurrently and elevated.
the storytelling to the real ghostbuster franchise. Plus reduced the sequel to absolute idiocy incomaprjson and ruined the film franchise. As the IDOT hacks at the film. Never bothered to ask. Hey that cartoon, that launched from the movie. The entire actual drawing sweet spot watches fifty two times a year. What are they doing. Back in the eighties they were bungling franchise blockbuster properties with this nonsense. That the real ghostbusters a cartoon. Is looked at as the superior work. Which picked up plausibly from where the movie left off.
alternatively wb is showing ignorance to blockbusters and management. That alternatively, the filmation ghostbusters series, got good will to still be on after the ghost buster movie bungled. That it forced filmation in revenue grab fashion. To ramp up the animated original ghostbusters to make sense. Or better sense. Yet it still in all its little filmmation toddler rampup glory. WAS STILL NOT shyt TO THAT REAL GHOSTBUSTER ANIMATED shyt. WHICH ARGUEABLY FEATURES SATURDAY MORNING CHARACTERS BIGGEST BAD AND ACTUAL SCARIEST VILLAIN THE SCARECROW.

in that comparison is also how wb loses.
as this gen has and should already know this.
if they are so kid franchise savy.
on knowing why media sucks and how it got that way.

yet let people run their non-knowing mouths.
they will reveal they really do not know and need to stfu.
or ramp up.
This movie is from people allowed by other hacks.
to make rag based bullshyt to revenue grab. When the collective thinktank for that ideal.
has already endured and it lead to market ruin. This film does exactly the same trope retreads that eventually lead to market ruin for wb. Then the inevitable revenue grab legacy vertigo Batman re-RE-RE-RELAUNCH.


fukk all that.

I am done.

I am at the same point i was at with comics as a shawty and dc.


fukk dc.


well everything at dc, except jim Lee.

jim lee,...dat's my idol.

art barr

 

[ItWasWritten]

5 days later and the impact is still there



I know this scene was in trailer ...

But when Arthur was in the elavtor at Arkham and the patient beside him as going bonkers and Arthur just looking down ...

 

[Art Barr]

hey wb.

you failed to give us a great superman.
after smallville never showed us Superman for like a decade Plus.
then you got gotham on for like seven years or so.

where again,....
you never see a real film adapted joker that will concurrently be good and long running.
now we got flash, super girl, elseworld other superman, else world Martian etc.
else world hawkgirl, else world flash.

hey dc...

stop bullshytting and revenue grabbing and gives us the real shyt.

or i drop the ban hammer on all this dc shyt for good.

the rest of youse's out there should too.
as they have never made shyt good concurrently.
holla when the make a concurrently good film franchise.
wb making them nursing home day room tv specials on FX face ass movies.


fukk supporting that bullshyt.







art barr

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Watched this in Dolby last night and I was engaged the entire time. Great film and performance by Phoenix.

Spoiler

"I thought that clown dude set him up to get fired by giving Authur that gun knowing he’ll have it on his person to feel safe. I thought the boss said on the phone (to Arthur) he was told that he brought the gun with him to show off to them other clowns. "

Yea he did and thats why he got fired. I think fatboy had good intentions but once he got the complaint at the hospital he figured let me snitch on arthur before he say he got it from me

Spoiler: Nah

that clown coworker gave him the gun then went and told the supervisor Arthur tried to buy a gun from him, that’s what was said over the phone when he got fired

Y’all are right. He did say that to boss. I can’t remember if it was right after the hospital or when the cops started asking around.

Either way he definitely snitched first

 

[Poetical Poltergeist]

It was that good.

If we can get Joaquin opposite Batman then we can compare more objectively. This movie for me is a just a character study. Good movie just nothing too deep for me to ponder much on.

 

[Cartier Murphy]

to pretty much all this.

First off "Arthur is an anti-hero" is....a wild take. Wild as fukk.

Saying "they don't deserve to die but he deserved to get revenge" completely ignores the fact that they did in fact die.

Most of them for little to no reason.

Stab your former co-worker to death with scissors and be an anti-hero, brehs.

Kill a nurse for literally no reason and be an anti-hero, brehs.

And I'm at "if this was any other film, we'd be rooting for him". Who is we? Refer to the two sentences above. The only somewhat justifiable killing was the three guys on the train. After that anybody siding with Arthur gotta be a lunatic. Which brings me to my next point....

Saying "to the protesters, Joker is a hero" is meaningless because it assumes the protesters are good people.

There's several terrible people through out history that equally depraved people consider heroes....it don't mean they're actually heroes, though.

And at "protesters". Let's not sit here and act like this was Occupy Wall Street. They were savages out killing people and burning down the city....inspired by Joker shooting a man in the face on live TV.

So....yeah. Them propping up Joker as some sort of icon speaks more to how terrible they are, than him being a hero.

Fred.

Even with the subway killings, only 2 out of the 3 kills are really justifiable. The first 2 were while they were attacking him so you can maybe argue self defense, that third one is where Arthur crossed a line and I thought the film did a good job at conveying that. That last Wayne employee was wounded, running, screaming for his life across different stops, yet Arthur still ran after him and gunned him down, shooting him in the back no less. That was a clear sign that Arthur had fully lost it and gone past the point of no return, because he didn’t just kill those guys in self defense or because they wronged him, he did it because he enjoyed it.

 

[Art Barr]

But even bad people can be empathized and there's an abundance of evidence to show why he is who he is. He wasn't dealt a hand of cards the average person is. Children shouldn't have an upbringing like that.

Spoiler

his moms was a failed trick baby whale hunter period.
trying to authenticate anything he did as an adult is complete bullshyt. plus his moms was a free woman as this was the seventies. She never motivated herself to do anything.
except fail to prey on the system.
then wallow in a virtue principal lacking ideal based lifestyle.
after failing to nail a whale in Thomas Wayne.

• the only thing he did that was warranted that made any actual conflict self defense resolution and legal exchange sense.
• was in the subway, before he exits the car. Yet given the time period, Plus laws. I see how that situation deteriorated into what happened rather easily. As i was an actual cta rail conductor in a premodern train ticket fare based era. So I could easily say given how the exchange took place. he only acted once in FAIR play of self defense.

outside of that. Fleck was a misguided sheltered munch ass p*ssy. who really is a far cry from a vertigo style joker.

let alone cannon based joker.

ART BARR

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

hey wb.

you failed to give us a great superman.
after smallville never showed us Superman for like a decade Plus.
then you got gotham on for like seven years or so.

where again,....
you never see a real film adapted joker that will concurrently be good and long running.
now we got flash, super girl, elseworld other superman, else world Martian etc.
else world hawkgirl, else world flash.

hey dc...

stop bullshytting and revenue grabbing and gives us the real shyt.

or i drop the ban hammer on all this dc shyt for good.

the rest of youse's out there should too.
as they have never made shyt good concurrently.
holla when the make a concurrently good film franchise.
wb making them nursing home day room tv specials on FX face ass movies.


fukk supporting that bullshyt.







art barr

They need a Kevin feige over there. And I’m not speaking on talent or knowledge. I’m saying they need 1 man, who is going to run the whole Universe with an iron fist (no pun).

Put together a whole timeline, hire actors for 7-10 movie deals off top. Have writers and directors locked in with no power to actually change shyt.

And have that person, be a comic book nerd who loves the culture and won’t let the suits push him over. You need Silent Bob or somebody like that.

Seems to me, DC problem is, every 5 years, a whole new team, reboot, actors, and directors have to start all the way over. Batman and it’s collective, has been the most jumbled mix of movies, characters and restarts I’ve ever seen. Well maybe Spider-Man but at least they crank out a legit trilogy twice with the same people involved. I think Batman did that once. That’s if you ignore his main love interest being a totally different person all the sudden

 

[jwinfield]

That was a clear sign that Arthur had fully lost it and gone past the point of no return, because he didn’t just kill those guys in self defense or because they wronged him, he did it because he enjoyed it.

And then went to the bathroom and danced