OFFICIAL Game of Thrones Season 7 Thread - Winds of Winter. Spoilers=BAN, Theories in [spoiler] tags

[dora_da_destroyer]

for fukk's sake they introduced and built up euron just for this nikka to be ghost for 3 episodes in a row and no mention to wtf he's doing. these nikkas done set up a theon/yara rescue and not planted any seeds since the siege to get us to give a damn. bran got all the knowledge in the world and the most we've learned of him this season is he saw sansa get raped, knows chaos is a ladder, and can fly a flock of crows

if that's good storytelling to you, then we just don't need to discuss anything other than the dragons and battles

 

[daze23]

LF doesn't know Arya has many faces. For all we know, Arya probably already killed a Vale soldier and took the face. I don't think Sansa has forgiven LF for what she had endured under the 2 psychos. LF delivered her to both of them.

idk who's face she has, but I do think she'll catch LF slipping, and take off the mask, on some "it was me all along"

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

idk who's face she has, but I do think she'll catch LF slipping, and take off the mask, on some "it was me all along"

if we don't get a expression with her entering the kitchen

 

[MalikX]

I used to use this excuse, and even still give it some credence for the larger outlook of the series, but it still doesn't justify certain decisions that are just horrible writing choices, that even a decent TV writer should be able to spot and correct. Arya didn't have to get poked up because she was waltzing around Braavos with face changing assassins after her, for instance.

I don't blame that on Geroge, I blame that on the writers wanting a big dramatic moment to end an episode, and a chase sequence set piece, so they clumsily wrote something to get them there, character and plot be damned.

I remember reading that they spent millions of dollars, and like 2 weeks to film that chase scene, when the show would have been better had they just cut it entirely....or spent an extra hour in the writing room.

I feel like I've been more than fair to D&D, as I understand writing for this show is more difficult than writing for other shows given the time restrictions. Because of the tight schedule they have to shoot in multiple countries at one time during winter with like 4 or 5 different camera crews, while allowing enough time for pre-production (scouting locations, costumes, building the set pieces, sometimes inventing new tech just for a single scene) and post, they have to produce a script in a few months, and that first draft pretty much has to be very close to the final draft because they don't have the time to make big changes. I get it. They have a few months to write something for a huge production, and don't have the luxury of the years it takes GRRM, or even the years it takes for big budget hollywood movies to film a 2-hour blockbuster. I get it.

But some of these problems are problems only because they decided at some point not to worry about their writing making sense. A few lines of dialogue or an extra scene would "fix" a lot of the problems. But they have come to the point of just not feeling the attention to detail is worth it. And that is solely a D&D stance, which I can be angry at. It's one thing to just not be able to come up with great stories because you are meant to adapt rather than write original stories. But it's another thing to ignore consistency within your own show because being logical is now not dramatic enough.

I feel you.....something to consider is Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei now each make $2.5 million dollars per episode. I think they're the highest paid TV show actors of all-time now. In Season 1, they were only making $500,000 an episode. Then you have the CGI, the battle sets, travel, the other actors. HBO gave them $100 million and instead of trying to stretch it for a normal 10 episode season, they decided to film a shorter season so they could devote more of the budget to each episode. Basically....you're right in a sense about them not being as detailed as they were in previous seasons but, I personally do chalk alot of that up to them having a script to follow with the books then vs. them outpacing the books now and having complete creative freedom to finish the story. So, we're watching their interpretation of Game of Thrones instead of the original author's. Who's to blame for that? Also, yes...at the end of the day, the tv show watcher doesn't give a fukk about budget concerns, all they care about is if a tv show is good. All I'm saying is these dudes have a writer that can't put out a book faster than every 6 years and they have shooting costs that have went through the roof and shortened seasons in result. So, instead of spending time showing the actors traveling or time spent worldbuilding or time focusing on minor details, they're quickly getting to the final arc of the story. Maybe they should've just made GOT a movie series like Star Wars Then they could've gotten a fat ass $250 million dollar budget like Rogue One or The Force Awakens but, of course, book purists would be complaining about 2 hour movies not being able to capture all the book material instead of a TV show

 

[MalikX]

I don't need everything explained to me towards the end, especially not with how fickle people on here are, perfect example is the people complaining about the time spent on Sam when he was clearly furthering the story, but it was said over and over again that it was filler.

The real question is, what needs to be added to prevent people from complaining about it, and it would have all been filler. Did we really need a subtitle that said "3 days later" and have Jon say they were low on food, but then people would be saying it's illogical for the Night King to wait 3 days later to attack. There's too much logic being applied to something designed to entertain and be high drama, dudes really out here breaking down how fast a Raven can fly, word?

I'm pretty sure these dudes didn't go Beyond the Wall into harsh weather conditions without food and water. If people need that spelled out for them

 

[Tasha And]

The first few seasons couldn't rely on spectacle because of budget constraints, not because they were trying to bring things along slowly and build the world, there was no telling whether the show would be popular or not. They could have done Roberts Rebellion first if they wanted to build the world, because this part of the story always led to the place where they'd be fighting zombies with Dragons. Had they known this would be a hit I guarantee they wouldn't have started here, they would have started with the Rebellion with hints of the world being magical because in the end it's about making money and doing it that way would have set them up for a continuous show arch for the next 15 years.

As I said earlier, most of the fans of the show aren't checking flight routes for ravens or how long it takes ice to freeze or how far Dragonstone is to Eastwatch The episode is getting universal love in the real world.

I don't really care about "most fans."

I mean do I have to list the shytty popular things that exist in the world?

And most of the reviewers, the same people that heap universal praise on easlier spectacle episodes, are all pointing out how this past one made no sense.

AV Club

When writing about a show week-to-week, sometimes you need to roll with the punches: as much as the nature of these reviews means I need to ”judge” an episode before knowing how the show builds on those developments, I always remain open to the show course correcting effectively when something seems a bit off.

And so I didn’t spend a lot of time last week talking about how the “Kidnap a Wight” plan made no sense, because I wanted to wait and see how the plan manifested in the episode where it’s put into action.

Yeah, it still doesn’t make any sense.

A game-changing Thrones spectacle buckles under the pressures of a shortened season (experts)
_______

IGN

For that reason, "Beyond the Wall" suffers in a way that earlier epic episodes this season, like the excellent "The Spoils of War," did not. For all that the action scenes were excellent and the shots of the dragons blasting down wights was chill-inducing in all the right ways, these scenes likely would have been much more impactful if the writers had allotted time for their impact to sink in.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/08/21/game-of-thrones-beyond-the-wall-review

_____

The Atlantic

Benioff and Weiss’s emphasis on building the show primarily for payoffs is taking a toll on the quality of Game of Thrones in general—consistent logic seems to drive the action less than it once did.

It quickly became apparent that the episode was geared toward one big, memorable image -- zombie dragon -- and it didn't care how much nonsense we had to endure to get it.

Is 'Game of Thrones' on Thin Ice?

_____

The Guardian

This penultimate episode suggests that, for now at least, spectacle has the upper hand – and with that comes a host of problems. For while the stand-off with the Night’s King’s forces, Dany’s ride to the rescue and the dragging of Viserion from the icy deep were fun to watch (who wouldn’t gasp at the possibility of a zombie ice dragon?) the script was almost unbearably clunky.

It makes no sense.

Tyrion himself tells Daenerys-Not-Dany that Cersei won’t give a damn about her ice zombie present. Sure, there’s a lot of waffle about how you need to see the undead to truly understand – but where every other big penultimate battle has risen organically out of the series’ events, this felt like a contrivance created solely so everyone could converge on King’s Landing next week for what looks increasingly like it’ll be the mother of all cliffhangers.

Game of Thrones recap: season seven, episode six – Beyond the Wall
______

Vanity Fair

But unbelievable survival seems to be the new world order on Game of Thrones, where we would surprised if a battle episode didn’t end in a deus ex machina like the Knights of the Vale, a lunging Bronn, Daenerys and her dragons, or Benjen and his fiery flail. Instead, in this episode, it was up to the red shirts (a.k.a. the unnamed wildlings) joining Jon on this foolish quest to make up the “good guy” body count. The fact that every single one of them died this week is unsurprising but also very boring storytelling.

Game of Thrones Really Needs to Start Killing off Its Heroes Again

_______

Forbes

In fact, while I really wanted to like this episode, despite the very bad plan Tyrion came up with last week, in the end it's simply far too riddled with problems, both large and small. 'Beyond the Wall' is a rush job of poorly formulated ideas and shaky writing. I figured we'd at least get a compelling adventure with our 'Magnificent Seven' this week, but the episode's best moments were undermined by its too-tidy resolution and implausible fast travel.

'Game Of Thrones' Season 7, Episode 6 Review: 'Beyond The Wall'

_______

Alan Sepinwall

When the series killed off Ned, it dramatically raised the stakes of everything we had been watching. Anyone could die, which meant anything could happen, which meant it was pointless to try to outguess the show, and far more thrilling to just sit back and enjoy the ride. Recent events have been both easier to predict and so phony in their stakes that it undermines a lot of the power the show generated with Ned, the Red Wedding, etc.

When the scope is this gigantic, and the action this exciting, it should be simple to shrug off the idiot plot and the schmuckbait and just bask in the visual extravaganza. But Game of Thrones should be — and has been — better than a lot of this Perils of Pauline foolishness, and it keeps drawing attention to its weakest ideas. If you don’t want to kill off Jon Snow because he’s important to the endgame, that’s fine, but then don’t keep pretending like you are about to kill him sometime in the next five seconds!

“Beyond the Wall” represented many of the very best things this series can do, but also some of the worst and laziest tricks it leans on, repeatedly, when all else falls. But hey… zombie bears and zombie dragons, oh my!

'Game Of Thrones' Goes 'Beyond The Wall' For Spectacle And Silliness

________

Slant Magazine

It feels a little like a betrayal seeing the way that Game of Thrones, in its bum-rush toward what's feeling like an increasingly preordained finish line, goes about cavalierly disregarding all the hard work it's done across seven seasons in giving certain characters a profound sense of purpose.


Game of Thrones Recap: Season 7, Episode 6, “Beyond the Wall” | The House Next Door | Slant Magazine

________

Vox

But let’s not forget that the chaos of “Beyond the Wall” stems from a plan that is, at its heart, truly stupid. When Jon and the rest sit stranded in the middle of a frozen lake waiting for Daenerys to swoop in and save them, it’s hard not think about how easily it could’ve been avoided if anyone had thought about it for another five minutes.

With just one episode left in the season, though, “Beyond the Wall” continues to push the plot full speed ahead — especially the ending, which sees Daenerys and Jon swearing loyalty to each other as they confront the undead threat they’ve now both stared in the blue-eyed face.

So, okay, “Beyond the Wall” falls apart the more you think about it. But it’s also an undeniable game changer

6 winners and 7 losers from Game of Thrones’ "Beyond the Wall"

_____

The Ringer

“Beyond the Wall” contains the most extreme examples to date of both. And while watching the episode, it was hard to avoid the conclusion that the show has reached a fundamental turning point. Game of Thrones is no longer a uniquely subversive commentary on fantasy as a genre. It’s just straight-up fantasy, and not only because this week’s big battle pits dragons against ice zombies.

Let’s start with the setup for that battle, which strained credulity even before its plot-serving purpose became nakedly obvious. In order to fully invest in a conflict, it’s necessary to understand and believe in what’s at stake for both sides.

That’s what made “The Spoils of War” such remarkable television: not the spectacle of the fighting itself, per se, but our sympathy for the combatants and comprehension of the circumstances that put them at odds. “Beyond the Wall” goes the opposite direction: I don’t believe that bringing a wight to Cersei would persuade her to lend Jon her support; I don’t believe Dany would be so casual about her prospective ally and love interest turning to her direct competition for help; and, most importantly, I don’t believe so many people would uncritically accept this convoluted scheme as a good idea.

Before the credits even began, then, I was immediately less engaged with the events of “Beyond the Wall” than I have been with other Thrones face-offs, largely because the story was conspicuously short on the internal logic Thrones prides itself on.

‘Game of Thrones’ Episode 6: The Show Is Conventional Fantasy Now


I could go on.

But this is probably the part where you say "who cares what critics think" and I'll remind you that it was you that brought up other peoples opinions, invokving the supposed "universal praise" this is getting.

 

[Torrential]

self-righteous Arya

 

[Malta]

I don't really care about "most fans."

I mean do I have to list the shytty popular things that exist in the world?

And most of the reviewers, the same people that heap universal praise on easlier spectacle episodes, are all pointing out how this past one made no sense.

AV Club

When writing about a show week-to-week, sometimes you need to roll with the punches: as much as the nature of these reviews means I need to ”judge” an episode before knowing how the show builds on those developments, I always remain open to the show course correcting effectively when something seems a bit off. And so I didn’t spend a lot of time last week talking about how the “Kidnap a Wight” plan made no sense, because I wanted to wait and see how the plan manifested in the episode where it’s put into action.

Yeah, it still doesn’t make any sense.

A game-changing Thrones spectacle buckles under the pressures of a shortened season (experts)
_______

IGN

For that reason, "Beyond the Wall" suffers in a way that earlier epic episodes this season, like the excellent "The Spoils of War," did not. For all that the action scenes were excellent and the shots of the dragons blasting down wights was chill-inducing in all the right ways, these scenes likely would have been much more impactful if the writers had allotted time for their impact to sink in.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/08/21/game-of-thrones-beyond-the-wall-review

_____

The Atlantic

Benioff and Weiss’s emphasis on building the show primarily for payoffs is taking a toll on the quality of Game of Thrones in general—consistent logic seems to drive the action less than it once did.

It quickly became apparent that the episode was geared toward one big, memorable image -- zombie dragon -- and it didn't care how much nonsense we had to endure to get it.

Is 'Game of Thrones' on Thin Ice?

_____

The Guardian

This penultimate episode suggests that, for now at least, spectacle has the upper hand – and with that comes a host of problems. For while the stand-off with the Night’s King’s forces, Dany’s ride to the rescue and the dragging of Viserion from the icy deep were fun to watch (who wouldn’t gasp at the possibility of a zombie ice dragon?) the script was almost unbearably clunky.

It makes no sense. Tyrion himself tells Daenerys-Not-Dany that Cersei won’t give a damn about her ice zombie present. Sure, there’s a lot of waffle about how you need to see the undead to truly understand – but where every other big penultimate battle has risen organically out of the series’ events, this felt like a contrivance created solely so everyone could converge on King’s Landing next week for what looks increasingly like it’ll be the mother of all cliffhangers.

Game of Thrones recap: season seven, episode six – Beyond the Wall
______

Vanity Fair

But unbelievable survival seems to be the new world order on Game of Thrones, where we would surprised if a battle episode didn’t end in a deus ex machina like the Knights of the Vale, a lunging Bronn, Daenerys and her dragons, or Benjen and his fiery flail. Instead, in this episode, it was up to the red shirts (a.k.a. the unnamed wildlings) joining Jon on this foolish quest to make up the “good guy” body count. The fact that every single one of them died this week is unsurprising but also very boring storytelling.

Game of Thrones Really Needs to Start Killing off Its Heroes Again

_______

Forbes

In fact, while I really wanted to like this episode, despite the very bad plan Tyrion came up with last week, in the end it's simply far too riddled with problems, both large and small. 'Beyond the Wall' is a rush job of poorly formulated ideas and shaky writing. I figured we'd at least get a compelling adventure with our 'Magnificent Seven' this week, but the episode's best moments were undermined by its too-tidy resolution and implausible fast travel.

'Game Of Thrones' Season 7, Episode 6 Review: 'Beyond The Wall'

_______

Alan Sepinwall

When the series killed off Ned, it dramatically raised the stakes of everything we had been watching. Anyone could die, which meant anything could happen, which meant it was pointless to try to outguess the show, and far more thrilling to just sit back and enjoy the ride. Recent events have been both easier to predict and so phony in their stakes that it undermines a lot of the power the show generated with Ned, the Red Wedding, etc.

When the scope is this gigantic, and the action this exciting, it should be simple to shrug off the idiot plot and the schmuckbait and just bask in the visual extravaganza. But Game of Thrones should be — and has been — better than a lot of this Perils of Pauline foolishness, and it keeps drawing attention to its weakest ideas. If you don’t want to kill off Jon Snow because he’s important to the endgame, that’s fine, but then don’t keep pretending like you are about to kill him sometime in the next five seconds!

“Beyond the Wall” represented many of the very best things this series can do, but also some of the worst and laziest tricks it leans on, repeatedly, when all else falls. But hey… zombie bears and zombie dragons, oh my!

'Game Of Thrones' Goes 'Beyond The Wall' For Spectacle And Silliness

________

Slant Magazine

It feels a little like a betrayal seeing the way that Game of Thrones, in its bum-rush toward what's feeling like an increasingly preordained finish line, goes about cavalierly disregarding all the hard work it's done across seven seasons in giving certain characters a profound sense of purpose.


Game of Thrones Recap: Season 7, Episode 6, “Beyond the Wall” | The House Next Door | Slant Magazine

________

Vox

But let’s not forget that the chaos of “Beyond the Wall” stems from a plan that is, at its heart, truly stupid. When Jon and the rest sit stranded in the middle of a frozen lake waiting for Daenerys to swoop in and save them, it’s hard not think about how easily it could’ve been avoided if anyone had thought about it for another five minutes.

With just one episode left in the season, though, “Beyond the Wall” continues to push the plot full speed ahead — especially the ending, which sees Daenerys and Jon swearing loyalty to each other as they confront the undead threat they’ve now both stared in the blue-eyed face.

So, okay, “Beyond the Wall” falls apart the more you think about it. But it’s also an undeniable game changer

6 winners and 7 losers from Game of Thrones’ "Beyond the Wall"

_____

The Ringer

“Beyond the Wall” contains the most extreme examples to date of both. And while watching the episode, it was hard to avoid the conclusion that the show has reached a fundamental turning point. Game of Thrones is no longer a uniquely subversive commentary on fantasy as a genre. It’s just straight-up fantasy, and not only because this week’s big battle pits dragons against ice zombies.

Let’s start with the setup for that battle, which strained credulity even before its plot-serving purpose became nakedly obvious. In order to fully invest in a conflict, it’s necessary to understand and believe in what’s at stake for both sides.

That’s what made “The Spoils of War” such remarkable television: not the spectacle of the fighting itself, per se, but our sympathy for the combatants and comprehension of the circumstances that put them at odds. “Beyond the Wall” goes the opposite direction: I don’t believe that bringing a wight to Cersei would persuade her to lend Jon her support; I don’t believe Dany would be so casual about her prospective ally and love interest turning to her direct competition for help; and, most importantly, I don’t believe so many people would uncritically accept this convoluted scheme as a good idea.

Before the credits even began, then, I was immediately less engaged with the events of “Beyond the Wall” than I have been with other Thrones face-offs, largely because the story was conspicuously short on the internal logic Thrones prides itself on.

‘Game of Thrones’ Episode 6: The Show Is Conventional Fantasy Now


I could go on.

But this is probably the part where you say "who cares what critics think" and I'll remind you that it was you that brought up other peoples opinions, invokving the supposed "universal praise" this is getting.

Go on, I already spoke on "reviewers" earlier in the thread.

So, you don't care what the fans think, but apparently reviewers matter more? Confirmation bias You're in a thread where the overall theme has been positive, yet some stuffy white dudes with black frame glasses who have mapped out how many times you'd need to recharge your Iphone traveling between Eastwatch and Dragonstone, their opinions matter to you?

 

[Malta]

I'm pretty sure these dudes didn't go Beyond the Wall into harsh weather conditions without food and water. If people need that spelled out for them

But, did you see the packs of food or nah?

Dudes really asking why Jon didn't die from hypothermia Like he's not the protagonist.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

The leak was in HD bruh

But I wasn't spoiled nor did I watch it on my PC like u did so

 

[Tasha And]

Go on, I already spoke on "reviewers" earlier in the thread.

So, you don't care what the fans think, but apparently reviewers matter more? Confirmation bias You're in a thread where the overall theme has been positive, yet some stuffy white dudes with black frame glasses who have mapped out how many times you'd need to recharge your Iphone traveling between Eastwatch and Dragonstone, their opinions matter to you?

Actually I wont, since I already predicted what you would say....and you said it.

 

[Malta]

Actually I wont, since I already predicted what you would say....and you said it.

How is it a prediction when I already said it before you?

 

[MalikX]

But, did you see the packs of food or nah?

Dudes really asking why Jon didn't die from hypothermia Like he's not the protagonist.

imma just give the benefit of doubt that Tormund, Jon Snow and the other Wildings would have enough common sense from years of being Wildings to bring food and water before going out into a blizzard.

They gave Thoros water before he died, so that implies they all brought canteens which implies they likely brought rations too. People eat 2-3 times a day, so unless they were only planning on being gone for 3 hours or something WHY wouldn't they bring food? (in hindsight they should've just shown The Hound eating something because tv viewers are too stupid).

And Targaryens don't get hypothermia

 

[Mr Hate Coffee]

I made a comic for the brehs in the thread.

I haven't even published it yet.

Check out roastedlikeever.com twice a week for more piff.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

This show was ALWAYS going to turn into a "big dumb action movie" because at the end of the day it's about ice zombies and dragons. All the political chess games and relationships and everything else that's been explored throughout the series has come down to this.

This is still a fantasy show that has to end with fantasy warfare. spent 7 fukking seasons developing these characters. If you don't know their motivations by now then how did you get to this point?

I remember back in the earlier seasons book readers specifically were bytching because some battles were skipped over in favor of dialogue. It came down to how much they could fit into the budget.

These same people who were complaining then are complaining now because there's too much action

This is the climax. This is what most people have beenwaiting for. Not to say the political elements weren't great, they obviously were.. but that shyt don't matter much when in the face of ice zombies breh.

Martin was going to finish this story with zombies against dragons. If you think he wasn't then you are a buffoon. It was always heading towards this clash between the forces. Everything else was his way of discussing politics in England and elsewhere. Again, it was great to read and all the chess pieces moving around was fun and the mysteries were great but we are past that.

Enjoy the ride