The Devil's Advocate

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Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven
Family>>>>>>>> Kingdom every SINGLE time.
But he lied to his family. So did he not trust his own family to keep the secret? Or was his oath to his sister more important than keeping it 100 with his wife and kids?

He let Jon live a fukked up life full of horrible treatment and hate towards him. Let his wife live her entire marriage thinking she was cheated on and this little b*stard baby running around being a constant reminder. People show up and Jon can't even eat food with them. Then let him ship himself to the wall cause he was so sick of being there.

See how this honor shyt gets iffy. It ain't simple as y'all wanna make it.
 

Devilinurear

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But he lied to his family. So did he not trust his own family to keep the secret? Or was his oath to his sister more important than keeping it 100 with his wife and kids?

He let Jon live a fukked up life full of horrible treatment and hate towards him. Let his wife live her entire marriage thinking she was cheated on and this little b*stard baby running around being a constant reminder. People show up and Jon can't even eat food with them. Then let him ship himself to the wall cause he was so sick of being there.

See how this honor shyt gets iffy. It ain't simple as y'all wanna make it.
He didn't trust cat. And he was right she was untrustworthy with that info.
 

beanz

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But he lied to his family. So did he not trust his own family to keep the secret? Or was his oath to his sister more important than keeping it 100 with his wife and kids?

He let Jon live a fukked up life full of horrible treatment and hate towards him. Let his wife live her entire marriage thinking she was cheated on and this little b*stard baby running around being a constant reminder. People show up and Jon can't even eat food with them. Then let him ship himself to the wall cause he was so sick of being there.

See how this honor shyt gets iffy. It ain't simple as y'all wanna make it.


That was for their own protection. U think if Robert somehow finds out, Ned gonna just hand Jon over? He gonna protect him in winterfells walls. He gonna have to Rebel against Robert to protect Jon and he would because family is first. If Robert came thru to crush winterfell, the whole family suffering. That's not a secret u can let out to anybody.
 

Tasha And

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dorn lost all their leaders, that shyt is probably pure chaos.
It's sloppy writing but there shouldn't be chaos. The Dornish army should still be kicking along with several highborn lords willing and ready to keep the fight going. But the way they've written Dorne, I guess when the freaking sand snakes die, it means all of Dorne dies with them:mjlol:
 

detroitwalt

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But he lied to his family. So did he not trust his own family to keep the secret? Or was his oath to his sister more important than keeping it 100 with his wife and kids?

He let Jon live a fukked up life full of horrible treatment and hate towards him. Let his wife live her entire marriage thinking she was cheated on and this little b*stard baby running around being a constant reminder. People show up and Jon can't even eat food with them. Then let him ship himself to the wall cause he was so sick of being there.

See how this honor shyt gets iffy. It ain't simple as y'all wanna make it.
Robert wouldn't have let Jon live at all.

As far as honor goes, it is a matter of perspective. I think Ned would've felt he was doing the honorable thing by protecting his sister's child as he promised he would on her dying bed. If he has to sacrifice his wife's happiness and lie to his best friend/king to keep promise then so be it.
 

The Devil's Advocate

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Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven
It's sloppy writing but there shouldn't be chaos. The Dornish army should still be kicking along with several highborn lords willing and ready to keep the fight going. But the way they've written Dorne, I guess when the freaking sand snakes die, it means all of Dorne dies with them:mjlol:
I was hoping that would happen in a future ep or something. It's like they don't have ravens or riders or nothing.

Hey your leaders have been captured and killed. Group up the army and attack and rescue/avenge them

But nah. Nope. Nothing.
 

MidniteJay

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But he lied to his family. So did he not trust his own family to keep the secret? Or was his oath to his sister more important than keeping it 100 with his wife and kids?

He let Jon live a fukked up life full of horrible treatment and hate towards him. Let his wife live her entire marriage thinking she was cheated on and this little b*stard baby running around being a constant reminder. People show up and Jon can't even eat food with them. Then let him ship himself to the wall cause he was so sick of being there.

He had to. Many believed Ned wasn't the type to cheat on his wife like that. He brings a b*stard home and his wife accepts him with kindness and all that shyt it's gonna look funny. Ned was afraid of his best friend's wrath and you know Ned ain't about kids getting bodied. Like I said before it's ammo for fukkery especially when Jon Arryn dies and shyt starts to get hot. Jon Snow becomes a bargaining chip that Catelyn could use to get her own fam out of the fire. :francis:
 

The Devil's Advocate

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Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven
That was for their own protection. U think if Robert somehow finds out, Ned gonna just hand Jon over? He gonna protect him in winterfells walls. He gonna have to Rebel against Robert to protect Jon and he would because family is first. If Robert came thru to crush winterfell, the whole family suffering. That's not a secret u can let out to anybody.

Robert wouldn't have let Jon live at all.

As far as honor goes, it is a matter of perspective. I think Ned would've felt he was doing the honorable thing by protecting his sister's child as he promised he would on her dying bed. If he has to sacrifice his wife's happiness and lie to his best friend/king to keep promise then so be it.
Y'all are missing my point. I know Ned couldn't tell Robert. I know he had to choose between loyalties

What I am saying is, it's not so cut and dry, "Ned was the most honorable guy".

This is game of thrones. Nobody is all perfect. In order for ned to keep one promise to his sister, he had to lie to his friend, lie to his wife, lie to his kids. And that left a stain on his marriage, pain in his wife and left Jon with a life full of hate directed his way.

Could he have told another lie? Maybe. Could he have told his wife at the least and trusted her? Maybe. But he did what he did.



But other than that. There were other times where he took an oath as hand, where he again betrayed rob. Maybe he felt his reasons were justified. He didn't want a war and he didn't want kids killed. But was his oath to the kids? Or was it to Robert? He was protecting Roberts enemies. Enemies that he thought killed Robert arryan as well. Another oath/friend he was sworn to.

Then he wrapped it all up by lying again. To save his family.




Can these things be justified. Sure. But they can just as easily be justified as treason, especially telling cersei to run
 

dora_da_destroyer

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Tyrells are done but there is still an army/navy in Sunspear.....whats gonna happen with that......Someone there should/could coordinate with Team Dany....or Jamie could be headed there next with his army to completely secure the south because.......

The unsullied WILL march toward Kings Landing......Tarley/Lannister forces will have to go stop them, they might get too stretched thin in doing so

There are still ships on DragonStone and probably still in Meeren as well where the 2nd Sons also are just chillin waiting for the call to join in

Then there are the 3 dragons, though we have already seen Killer Cayburn's plans for them.

shyt is still looking iffy for the Lannisters. If not for Jon and the threat of the White Walkers. It would be over already. Jon would have been had The North join up with the dragon lady.
damn, i forgot about the second sons. they were supposed to make sure all the cities remained free tho...i wonder if they get that call or if it's too much to try to do with so few episodes
 

dora_da_destroyer

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I was hoping that would happen in a future ep or something. It's like they don't have ravens or riders or nothing.

Hey your leaders have been captured and killed. Group up the army and attack and rescue/avenge them

But nah. Nope. Nothing.
i could be wrong cuz i don't read the books, but aint dorne free from all the pomp and circumstance that the rest of westeros is on? do they have the same bannerman/oath to great houses thing? and don't they stay out of war which is why they kinda have a different way of life/some autonomy? also, with the martell house out the way, why wouldn't some other house just take over and keep shyt cool?
 

Lifer11

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amazing that we ignoring the teaser that airs after the episode ends

dany out on that beach pleading as jon's heading back to his ship :whew:

It doesn't appear he's heading back to his ship in the teaser though, they're just out on the beach. If that was the case, Dany has control of his ship, she doesn't have to give it to him.
 

The Devil's Advocate

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Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven
i could be wrong cuz i don't read the books, but aint dorne free from all the pomp and circumstance that the rest of westeros is on? do they have the same bannerman/oath to great houses thing? and don't they stay out of war which is why they kinda have a different way of life/some autonomy? also, with the martell house out the way, why wouldn't some other house just take over and keep shyt cool?
Yes they are free from the 7 kingdoms shyt BUT the sand snakes took over. They had organized all of dorne for war. They were on the way to pick up the army, not convince them, but pick them up and go directly to war

So they get captured on the way there and the army is like "oh fukk it then" and goes home and goes to sleep? Targset doesn't even attempt to send word and TRY to convince them to fight the fight they was already about to start?
 

Tasha And

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i could be wrong cuz i don't read the books, but aint dorne free from all the pomp and circumstance that the rest of westeros is on? do they have the same bannerman/oath to great houses thing? and don't they stay out of war which is why they kinda have a different way of life/some autonomy? also, with the martell house out the way, why wouldn't some other house just take over and keep shyt cool?
I mean, yes and no. Dorne was never conquered when the Targs invaded Westeros, they entered into the seven kingdoms through marriage like 100 years later on some shyt, so they were allowed to keep their titles as prince/princess. But that and women being allowed to rule their region is really the major differences.

They still have oaths, the banners are still beholden to their lords , and though they can be isolationist to an extent (very few if any of them are at court in King's Landing in the series), they wouldn't just fold up and die because Elaria and the Sand Snakes are gone. They still have great houses there that would take over and...do something, either continue to fight for Dany with a new house taking over Sunspear, or support a new regime, or announce their independence, or something.

Thinking on it, they justified the coupe of the Sand Snakes by saying the people of Dorne are tired of weak rulers that don't fight, so it seems as if Dorne should still be eager to fight the Lannisters and welcome their new Dragon queen despite what happened to four b*stard women.
 
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