OFFICIAL Game of Thrones Season 7 Thread - Winds of Winter. Spoilers=BAN, Theories in [spoiler] tags

[beanz]

Fixed.

What they don't know won't hurt em

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Which moves are these, specifically?

Varys has followed orders at times to survive, but he hasn't 'improved his position' at all since the day we met him. The contrast between him and Littlefinger says it all to me. They were both pretty much equals at the beginning of the series...minor members of the small council. Littlefinger has acquired a castle, a kingdom, and an army, whilst Varys is remains a minor member of the small council, just for a different monarch.

And Robert was terrible for the realm. His disinterest in ruling left Littlefinger unchecked (remember Robert didn't bother to attend small council meetings) to drive up the debt to the Iron Bank.

Littlefinger's interest has ALWAYS been for himself and Varys' for the "realm". Littlefinger purposefully ran up the kingdoms debts, again his whole thing is controlled chaos. No one foresaw Ned getting killed BUT by driving the throne into debt he crippled their ability to wage war. The Lannisters wouldn't have been above reaching out to the Golden Company or the Second Sons sellswords groups if they had the money (thats more book info but still).

The montage for the Casterly Rock and Highgarden battles were nice, but c'mon, they got to give us more than this. Some of us have been waiting years for this invasion. We deserve more than a few minutes for each conflict

I'd agree but something tells me there will be MORE than enough good reason for it...

A full episode review coming

 

[Rekkapryde]

What they don't know won't hurt em

 

[young3000]

So there are no more Tyrell or Freys houses?

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

You know I was gonna disagree and say LF could have told Bobby B and have it lead to Ned's execution so he could slide in next to Cat. But I think Robert would've have been to blinded by his love for Lyanna to believe she would've had a child by Rhaegar so it could've backfired badly on LF.

Littlefinger "knowing" would've just been him connecting the dots, he obviously wouldn't have any proof or any assurance. So the play would be to get Robert, or someone else (Tywin?) to connect the dots as well. It's a fairly obvious and plausible theory once you're steered down that path.

Robert's love for Lyanna would've made it easier for Littlefinger to use the truth of Jon's parents to his advantage. He doesn't need to tell Robert that Lyanna had fallen for Rhaegar, Jon could be a rape baby. If Ned was protecting Rhaegar's rape b*stard, Robert would've been infuriated and done something brash. Littlefinger could've used that to his advantage for sure. Much better play than sitting on it for nearly 2 decades and sitting by idly while that chip gets sent to the Wall (pretty much out of the game).

I think it's clear how he could've used it to his advantage in the past, but I don't see how he could use it to his advantage now. He has no proof, who would even believe him? Back then, Robert could've at least confronted Ned. Demanded to meet his mistress. What's Sansa gonna do with that news? She already don't trust LF, but she gonna give credence to this wild ass claim?

 

[Adam3000]

Trying to engineer a war between Viserys backed up a Dothraki horde and Westeros, mainly.

Yes, Robert was a bad king. But a disinterested drunk with a small council with Varys, Renly, Stannis and Ned on it is clearly "better for the realm" than wholesale warfare. Especially when one side of that war is a completely untested ruler leading an army of barbarians. I don't care how drunk Robert was and how much debt he piled up, the relative stability he brought is better for the common people than the alternative that Varys tried to engineer.

This is kind of a retcon from a book storyline that was dropped from the show

I will post some book spoilers that explain it....this will spoil nothing from the show

Spoiler

The first few seasons play out similarly in the books for Varys, but in book 5 it is actually revealed that Varys has secretly been working to to crown Aegon Targaeryn, the "dead" son of Rhaegar who had his head smashed. The story goes that Aegon was actually switched out and it was a different baby that was killed.

For 15 years, Varys and Illyrio Mopatis have been raising Aegon in secrecy in Pentos, training him on how to be a king. Nobility, kindness, strategy, etc. Basically trying to create the perfect king.

They attempted to create instability in Westeros via the Viserys invasion with the Dothraki. Aegon would then come in and clean up the mess and restore the realm. This explains the secret meeting that Viserys ans Illyrio had in season 1 that Arya overheard while snooping around the dungeons.

Now, you might be still asking the same questions you had before. If Varys is truly for the realm, why create that chaos? Well, discerning readers have figured out that there is a subplot to it all. The Blackfyre dynasty is a b*stard-subset of the Targs, thought to have been wiped out in their quest to gain a throne they believed belonged to them. It is theorized (with solid evidence) that this Aegon is actually NOT Rhaegars son, but actually is Illyrio's son with a woman of Blackfyre descent.

If this is true, then Varys actually is trying to crown the Blackfyres on the throne, and was merely using Viserys/Dany as pawns in his game. The books currently sit right now with Aegon invading Westeros while Dany is still in Meereen.

The show dropped the Aegon storyline, apparently because it is too long and complicated and requires a whole extra Blackfyre history to be added as well. Probably would have had to got 10 or 11 seasons to fit all the material the cut out from books 4 and 5.

 

[Fani Willis fan]

The writing on this show has gone to shyt really. That Euron/Jamie conversation about fukknig Cersei with the dramatic music was just

You single out some 30 second insignificant dialogue to pick apart the writing

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Littlefinger "knowing" would've just been him connecting the dots, he obviously wouldn't have any proof or any assurance. So the play would be to get Robert, or someone else (Tywin?) to connect the dots as well. It's a fairly obvious and plausible theory once you're steered down that path.

Robert's love for Lyanna would've made it easier for Littlefinger to use the truth of Jon's parents to his advantage. He doesn't need to tell Robert that Lyanna had fallen for Rhaegar, Jon could be a rape baby. If Ned was protecting Rhaegar's rape b*stard, Robert would've been infuriated and done something brash. Littlefinger could've used that to his advantage for sure. Much better play than sitting on it for nearly 2 decades and sitting by idly while that chip gets sent to the Wall (pretty much out of the game).

I think it's clear how he could've used it to his advantage in the past, but I don't see how he could use it to his advantage now. He has no proof, who would even believe him? Back then, Robert could've at least confronted Ned. Demanded to meet his mistress. What's Sansa gonna do with that news? She already don't trust LF, but she gonna give credence to this wild ass claim?

This is something that the show doesn't really explain well. Robert is insane when it comes to Targs. He will literally start ANOTHER war just to kill Jon if he knew. BUT Ned is literally the ONLY person that Robert would have listened to. If anything Robert would have killed Littlefinger for throwing dirt on Ned's name then went and killed Jon. Also, remember Jon LOOKS like a Stark not a Targ, so in a time at peace that woulda been a wild claim. Now, with dragons and zombies and shyt...anything would probably be believed.

And again, its more advantageous now because Jon has the ability to act on his claim to the throne. Just like how no one gave two shyts about Renly and Stannis until they could make a move on the throne. Word like that comes out about Jon and Littlefinger, through Sansa, could control the north as well. Before hand that woulda just started another war and left him in an even more precarious position.


But either way Bran is gonna be the one to reveal it.

 

[gldnone913]

So there are no more Tyrell or Freys houses?

Might be some Freys left. All the Tyrells are gone.

 

[Adam3000]

You single out some 30 second insignificant dialogue to pick apart the writing

The funny part is that this was one of the single best episodes of the series as far as dialogue goes. I know that writing is more than just dialogue, but this episode was a densely packed beast and it covered a ton of ground.

These clowns can't help themselves. Half the stuff they bytch about anyway has easy explanations. I have stopped bothering because they never go away.

When 20 million people are watching, it only takes a small percentage of smart-dumb clowns to raise a big fuss. They are the flat-earthers of G.O.T.

Ignore them

 

[Adam3000]

Do not post spoilers....do not post "what could happen" based on what could be a spoiler....I don't give a fukk if you're GRR Martin. Keep that shyt out of the thread. Best case scenario it's a thread ban, worst case scenario is a ban from the site.

Fred.

@hex @Jax

I negged that Gold N Hoes idiot for posting spoilers and in turn he PM'd me more spoilers

Permanent thread ban, temporary site ban?

 

[MidniteJay]

So there are no more Tyrell or Freys houses?

Yep, show Tyrell got the Rains of Castemere treatment. In the books, Magaery had three brothers not one. House is done for the show

 

[QuintessentialMan]

Pacing is moving at light speed compared to previous seasons......its still Piff but it does feel a bit rushed.... Casterly Rock and Highgarden both fell in one monologue.

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

This is something that the show doesn't really explain well. Robert is insane when it comes to Targs. He will literally start ANOTHER war just to kill Jon if he knew. BUT Ned is literally the ONLY person that Robert would have listened to. If anything Robert would have killed Littlefinger for throwing dirt on Ned's name then went and killed Jon. Also, remember Jon LOOKS like a Stark not a Targ, so in a time at peace that woulda been a wild claim. Now, with dragons and zombies and shyt...anything would probably be believed.

LF is not dumb enough to walk up to Robert and say "hey, I think that's Rhaegars kid, your boy is a traitor", he would just set him down that path so that he could come to the conclusion himself. And actually, the better play may be to make Tywin come to that conclusion, you know, the guy who went to great lengths to kill Rhaegar's entire family? Tywin's gonna be in Robert's ear, at the very least Robert's gonna want to meet Ned's mistress. And at that time, a younger Robert would remember more clearly that Ned wasn't with whores like that. The pieces fall together pretty quickly. John may look like Stark now, but a newborn baby is just a baby, don't look like anyone. Jon's looks certainly wouldn't have stopped Robert from questioning it.

And again, its more advantageous now because Jon has the ability to act on his claim to the throne. Just like how no one gave two shyts about Renly and Stannis until they could make a move on the throne. Word like that comes out about Jon and Littlefinger, through Sansa, could control the north as well. Before hand that woulda just started another war and left him in an even more precarious position.

But either way Bran is gonna be the one to reveal it.

Again, why the hell would Sansa believe him? She's been told her entire life that Jon is her half brother. She doesn't trust Littlefinger, but she gonna trust him that her father was lying to her her whole life? Dude literally has no proof. Bran can break the news cuz he can prove he's the 3 eyed raven by telling her about her wedding when he certainly wasn't there. People would believe bran, nobody would believe LF.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

Jon snow keep a bad ass coat on him

Jon rocking fur on a bright brisk spring day

looking like an extra off of Migos - T Shirt video

That's my Targ KING IN THE NORF