Official Game of Thrones Season 6 Thread

ReadOneBookAWeek

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ALL TIME GREAT EPISODE

And I don't mean just since GoT started.

I mean since fukking television started.

That is the best medieval battle I have EVER seen depicted. Cinema, television, fukking civil war re-enactments... I read a butt load of medieval history and I've been wanting to see a battle done like this all my life. The sheer, vile BRUTALITY of the melee... ho-ly-fukk. Just a writhing mass of human flesh clawing and bludgeoning... gasping for air and getting trampled. This is why people put so much faith in "God's Favour" during the Kings and Castles eras because when you put 10,000 people in a field armed with melee weapons and bows/arrows you might as well toss a fukking coin. How were people even telling who was on their side down there once they were all covered in mud?

The shots of cavalry lines smashing into each other, the volleys of Ramsay's archers raining down on both sides, of the writhing sea of DEATH and of Jon clawing his way to oxygen through it were realer and more visceral than anything I can ever remember seeing on TV. We look through rose-tinted glasses at medieval times all the time - chivalric honour, knights in shining armour, the pure competition of hand to hand combat or swordfighting that even creeps into our Sci-Fi ("elegant weapons for a more civilised age").... but THIS is EXACTLY what that sort of fighting usually turned into. Brutal. Gruesome. Pitiless and Terrifying. After an hour the entire field would be carpeted with bodies and maimed fighters begging for euthanasia amid rivers of blood. At Agincourt something like 10,000 people were killed in 3 hours. Just imagine what 10,000 bodies lying in a field looks like. The Battle of Bosworth wasn't in any way fukking glamorous and no women watched it swooning. It ended with an unseated King getting bludgeoned to death and being thrown in a shallow grave.

The arrow to Wun Wun's eye also seemed like a subtle nod to King Harold being dropped at the Battle of Hastings.

I knew going in that Jon wouldn't die. By about 40 minutes gone I was starting to make peace with him dying. When the music hit as he was getting crushed I was yelling at the TV and my dog started doing figures of 8 round my feet because he could tell something was wrong.

The tactics from Ramsay were beautifully demonstrated. Jon all confident in his preparations "We're going to dig trenches" "I want him at full tilt" all went out of the window when Rickon became the opening act of Ramsay's show and Jon completely lost it (understandable). Ramsay *never* hit full charge until he realised the game was up and bolted in the opposite direction for Winterfell. He was calm throughout and if the Knights of the Vale hadn't shown up it would've been a massacre. Jon is yet to prove himself as any sort of battlefield commander and I don't really have a problem with this - he's possibly the best melee fighter in the North, maybe even Westeros, but he's honed his skills fighting Wildlings and Others who are all strangers to the sort of tactics an organised army like the Boltons use. He might know his battlefield theory, but when has he had to face a phalanx of pikemen? He's defended one siege against an army of Wildlings. He's fought Wildings in the wild, Others at Hardhome and Crows at Krasters Keep, but Robb had all the experience in traditional warfare against organised armies on battlefields - Jon's ended up being shaped into of a guerrilla fighter and his textbook shortcomings all came to the fore here.

The use of the Vale Army was the only bit that didn't entirely work for me, but I can't really see how else they could've done it. If Jon had been aware and waited, they would've lost the battle. It still would've started with Ramsay's Pre-Game Challenge to Rickon, Jon would've still been baited into a full tilt charge and instead of him and the Wildlings getting trapped in the phalanx it would've been the Knights of the Vale as well. The only way out of Ramsay's trap once he'd fallen for it was the arrival of a second force from outside Ramsay's formation.

GoT has had some serious high points - especially the battle episodes, but this was absolutely next level. The historicity of GRRM's writing is unparalleled in fantasy writing and as I've said before, often manages to give a better experience of history than actual history books. D&D are doing an absolutely masterful job of keeping this backbone of authenticity even when they're lacking source material.

The Meereen scenes were good too - great work from everyone in the alliance scene, lovely dragon action and nice to see Grey Worm putting in some work on a couple of Masters, but yeah... it still pales into insignificance. I could talk about the Winterfell battle ALL DAY.
great post! i read a lot of medieval history as well and mainly only watch historical films. That battle scene was definitely the best battle scene i've seen. That was the most realistic calvary combat i've seen. Gave us a great feel for how it really was when those horse came charging full speed into the ranks

  1. Have you read The Accursed Kings book series? GRRM said that it was the original game of thrones and its actually 100% fact based i believe.
 

klientel

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I think it would be cool if we all, with a week left before the Season finale, go ahead and put out our theories on who lives/dies by the time the show finishes its run.

For me its

Davos- Dies (before the end)
Bronn- Lives (the dirtiest fighter and most determined survivor will outlast most everybody)
Jamie- Dies (during the end)
Cersei- DEFINITELY Dies (during the last season but before the final episodes)
Brienne- Dies (during the end)
Podrick- Lives
Tyrion- Dies (during the very end)
Jorah- finds a cure for Greyscale but dies during the end protecting Dany
Daario- Dies (protecting Dany during the end)
Theon- Dies (during the end)
Yara- Lives (becomes Queen of the Iron Islands)
Grey Worm- Dies (during the end)
Messandei- Lives
Margery- Lives
Tormund- Lives
Sansa- Lives
Arya- Dies (During the end)
Jon- Dies (During the very end)
Dany- either lives and the Dragons die or she dies and the dragons live
Bran- Lives (he'll be the last Male child who can carry on the Stark name and I don't think he'll live in a tree, as the 3ER told him that wasn't his destiny)
Sam- Lives, but his Wildling chick will die
The Hound- Dies
Varys- Lives
Littlefinger- Dies (before the end)

This last season isn't driven by books so I doubt they kill off all the popular main characters. The backlash will be insane....

Tyrion, Jamie, Ayra, Jon, and Dany dead??? :mjlol: Nah breh

Maybe Jamie dies protecting Cersei and Jon dies finally. But that's about it.
 

detroitwalt

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ALL TIME GREAT EPISODE
I knew going in that Jon wouldn't die. By about 40 minutes gone I was starting to make peace with him dying. When the music hit as he was getting crushed I was yelling at the TV and my dog started doing figures of 8 round my feet because he could tell something was wrong.
That's how you know it's great TV. We all know Jon is protected by plot armor but I still thought it was a wrap for him too. I was so engrossed in what I was seeing that I completely forgot about the Vale riding in
 

CJ

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I would have been like
HaZKbnX.gif
I'm just imagining Rickon really catchin the arrow too :mjlol::dead:

I'm going to hell for this one. Rickon I'm sorry breh, I had to :mjcry:

mYIbTPH.gif


Starkset :mjcry:
 

Remote

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Game of Thrones has a Sansa problem

Given the overwhelming praise for the truly brilliant direction, cinematography, and acting in Game of Thrones' latest episode (the painterly and cathartic "Battle of the b*stards"), allow me to register a small countervailing complaint against the writing. In brief: WTF, SANSA?

Why didn't Sansa tell Jon she had another army via Littlefinger? We don't know. And the trouble is that it's not clear whether Game of Thrones does either.

The show has depended more and more on viewers to inexpertly paper over many of its massive missing facts and motivations. Why, to take a recent example, would Arya cower in a cave at the end of one episode (implying that she understands perfectly that the Faceless Men are after her) only to saunter around Braavos unarmed in the next? Is it logical for an intelligent character — who has spent two seasons training under a magical assassin cult that blinded her for merely disobeyingthem — to flaunt her money and gawp at the view after going AWOL during a mission?

It is not logical. It is ludicrous. And so, theories bloomed.

It reminds me of clotting, this ritual: Fans crowd to the gaping hole in the plot wound and stanch it with possible solutions. Sadly, there was no solution to find. Game of Thrones wrote Arya as just that dumb: She behaved stupidly, got stabbed for it, took a poppy-nap, got her host killed, did some nifty parkouring after discovering she was invincible, sliced a candle. Jaqen announced Arya was "no one" for reasons no one understood, and that was the end.

Arya's arc didn't just get derailed, it got drunk. Someone at HBO wanted a cool chase sequence so badly they mistook speed for catharsis and trampled the whole Braavos plot.

And here we are again, faced with another Stark daughter trapped in an episode so pumped about its (truly) amazing action sequences that it might be requiring weird things of its characters. Sansa's behavior leading up to this episode is incredibly damaging and oddly unexplained. Why keep Jon in the dark? Is this advancing her arc, or is it, like Arya's, contorting a character to suit the battle's needs? (Everyone loves a last-minute cavalry charge, after all.)

The show's opacity on this point muddies its stakes. We don't understand what Sansa knows and what she doesn't, which makes it hard to understand how responsible Sansa was for the horrific carnage and the eventual victory. Is she the architect of her revenge (and Jon's near-death) or a lucky beneficiary of Littlefinger's good timing? These are crucial questions, and the answers matter because one of these possibilities makes her the villain. It's as if we've been saddled with Schrodinger's Sansa: she's either Dim and Virtuous or Evil and Cunning. Right now — to everyone's confusion — she's both.

The case for Dim Sansa

The Dim Sansa case is simple: Sansa writes to Littlefinger but doesn't tell Jon Snow. Why? Maybe she didn't hear back. Maybe she's not sure he'll turn up. Maybe she just likes knowing she has a secret.

Dim Sansa is sometimes petulant and changes course often. She hectors Ser Davos for not understanding the North, annoys the houses she asks for help, and resents Jon for not asking for her advice but then decides not to tell him anything when he does. Still, she's basically good.

In the Dim Sansa timeline, it's pure luck that Littlefinger showed up when he did. Sansa gets to keep her virtue and recovers her good judgment long enough to dispatch Ramsey to everyone's satisfaction.

Yes, this is an irritating and pointlessly changeable version of a character whose growth we've been awaiting and whose catharsis was earned. Unfortunately, the previews for Episode 10 support Dim Sansa. Despite years of abuse and experience, she seems surprised that Littlefinger wants her hand in exchange for his help. (The good news? Given Jon's noble but catastrophic stupidity during the Battle of the b*stards, she remains the cleverer Stark.)

The case for Cunning Sansa

This one's more fun. Let's say Sansa knew Littlefinger was coming and planned his arrival without telling Jon. Cunning Sansa has her reasons: If the Vale army showed up in advance, Ramsey would likely retreat to Winterfell, where he couldn't be defeated. He had to be goaded out into a war he thought was winnable; he had to be baited with the promise of a slaughter. This would make Sansa a brilliant and Machiavellian military strategist. It would also make Jon the bait.

Evidence in favor: She arrives riding next to Littlefinger, implying significant coordination between them.

Evidence against: She says she knows nothing about battles. (But this might be guile. We have seen Sansa lie creatively and well before.)

Her arrival on the battlefield is not, in the Cunning Sansa timeline, a Proud Feminist moment. It indicates, rather, that Sansa is willing to sacrifice most of an army and both her surviving brothersin order to achieve her aims. Jon could have died 100 times before Littlefinger arrived, and Sansa would have been crazy to expect any other outcome. No, if this was a plan, then for Sansa, the death of two of her brothers was the price she was willing to pay. If this is what's happening, then this isn't even the beginning of Sansa's descent into villainy; she's been headed this way for some time and we missed it.

It's worth noting, as evidence, that Sansainstigated this battle. "Where will we go?" Jon asks her in this season's fourth episode, "Book of the Stranger." "There's only place we can go. Home," she says. Jon is (as ever) resistant. "If we don't take back the North, we'll never be safe. I want you to help me. But I'll do it myself if I have to," Sansa says. And finally: "A monster has taken our home and our brother. We have to go back to Winterfell and save them both." Having gotten Jon to commit to fighting, she calmly explains to a baffled Jon this week that the "saving Rickon" part of her spiel is naive: He's as good as dead.

Cunning Sansa knows Brienne will object to her methods, so she sends her on a trumped-up quest. Remember when Brienne asks Sansa why she needs to go to Riverrun in person? "We can send the Blackfish a raven," Brienne offers. "We can't risk Ramsey intercepting it. It has to be you," says Sansa, who proceeds to send Littlefingera raven. Cunning Sansa wants Brienne out of the way because Brienne might object to Sansa setting her brother and his army up to be slaughtered. (Cunning Sansa — if she exists — would actually explain much of the narrative nonsense that surrounded Riverrun. Without her, the Blackfish was just a red herring.)

In the Cunning Sansa timeline, Sansa is no longer a Stark in name or in spirit. She is not loyal. She is wounded, degraded, a starving dog, like the Northerners who turned on her.

And her disillusionment and cynicism morphs into something worse: "You said you would protect me," she spits at Littlefinger in "The Door." "You can't protect me. You wouldn't even be able to protect yourself if I told Brienne to cut you down." She says something similar to Jon before the battle: "You can't protect me. No one can protect anyone." This sounds like an echo; it's actually a deadly turn in a speech from a woman prepared to sacrifice the only family she has left to her goal.

The other evidence for Cunning Sansa is, of course, how comfortably she steps into Ramsey's shoes. Sansa watches the battle from a safe distance, just as Ramsey does. She watches human beings getting slaughtered with a sickly, blue-eyed, pallid smirk that looks awfully familiar:

battle%2030.PNG


battle%2011%20ramsey%20smirk.PNG


And while Ramsey's final words, "You can't kill me, I'm a part of you now," reinforce rumors that Sansa is pregnant, he does seem to have unsouled her. Rather than kill straightforwardly, like a Stark, Sansa chooses Ramsey's methods.

This would be fascinating and tragic and rich — a pregnant Lady Sansa Stoneheart ready to wreak havoc on her enemies no matter what the cost. Cunning Sansa would have understood the bargain when she sent for Littlefinger. Cunning Sansa is cold, the Northern Ice to Dany's Fire. Like Dany, she's capable of fratricide. Like Dany, who inexplicably lets the Sons of the Harpy kill hundreds before intervening with her dragons, Sansa is more than willing to let people die.

It's not a bad case, right?

Here's the thing: These are not compatible scenarios. Either Sansa planned Littlefinger's late arrival — in which case she's responsible for the carnage and for recovering Winterfell, or she didn't and gets no credit for the victory. She just got lucky. I worry — I really do — that Game of Thrones, by eliding the horrific compromises she'd have had to make offscreen to make this work, is awkwardly trying to make her virtuous and a great planner, a feminist powerhouse who might still be a force for good. The Battle of the b*stards made that structurally impossible. I hope they see that. I hope they don't try to make her both.
 

Chelsea Bridge

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This last season isn't driven by books so I doubt they kill off all the popular main characters. The backlash will be insane....

Tyrion, Jamie, Ayra, Jon, and Dany dead??? :mjlol: Nah breh

Maybe Jamie dies protecting Cersei and Jon dies finally. But that's about it.

I'm hoping Jamie kills Cersei to fulfill the prophecy.
 

Texas2step

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Are they going to show what has been going on with Dorne, Sam, and Bran on the Season finale. I thought they would continue to focus on what Bran have being doing but they haven't showed him in the past 3 episodes
 
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