dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
Someone repost the pic of dany and Jon in the sea of people, I wanna show someone
Official Game of Thrones Season 6 Thread
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theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
Nothing? Losing men is the point?
The security of a region is based on Houses supporting each other. If you need 3000 troops from my House to defend your keep....and you lose all or most of them....it's not gonna be "nothing". It's gonna be a problem. They ain't handing out troops to get slaughtered. Which is why most of the Houses of the North didn't want to side with Jon. They didn't think he'd win, and didn't want to waste men and resources on a lost cause.
And if Ramsey could hold Winterfell with just his men then he wouldn't have needed the Umbers and Karstarks for this battle.
Fred.
the troops werent there to defend winterfell, they were there to battle in the field, if it wasnt for WunWun ramsey would have been chilling in winterfell after having lost all of his men, it would have turned into a similar situation as jamie and the blackfish, blackfish had a few men, jamie had thousands, but blackfish had the upper hand becuase he held the fort and you only need a few men to hold a fort.
every house can make whatever decision they want, there are a lot of variables, a house doesnt have to send men when they are called and they can also get eliminated from history if they disobey, its up to them
and also who exactly would ramsey be concerned about, he had the blessing of kings landing, nobody was going to attack the north, from his POV, his main goal would be to consolidate power in the north by having the biggest army, he would rather have weak houses with weak armies
besides things happen, a commander has to make hard decisions and sometimes people die in battle just like sometimes lords get poisoned by their enemies, its most unfortunate
A few things....
1. In episode 2 this season Roose Bolton himself said they couldn't hold Winterfell without the support of the Houses in the North. If the Houses refuse the call or worse rebel, the Boltons get steamrolled. I dunno what you mean by "he had the blessing of King's Landing, who would attack the North?" when 3 Houses (Mormont, Hornwood and Mazin) rebelled and helped Jon Snow. Also the Vale.
2. The troops were there to defend Winterfell because Jon Snow was there to take Winterfell. That was the whole point of the battle.
3. Ramsey was clearly talking out of his ass. It's not the same as Riverrun, not even close. Riverrun had a moat and was completely enclosed. The main court of Winterfell is open and the front wall is only about 20 feet high. It was secure in the past because the Starks were close friends with King Robert and the North loved the Starks, not because it's impenetrable.
4. There is "hard decisions" and there is "stupidity". Ramsey shot thousands of arrows into his own men to facilitate a strategy that works without killing your own army. The Umbers and Karstarks are going to look dumb as fukk next time we see them because they sided with a guy that not only wasted their men, he lost.
Fred.
The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
truth be told he could have just grabbed one of those long sticks out their hand and gone to work
This woulda been a gamechanger
they really should have left him out of it... the shyt they was doing at the wall... their bow and arrow game... etc.. there's no way he couldn't have just run full speed at nikkas or chucked rocks and knocked the shyt out of them fools
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Thingsfallapart
Superstar
No he didn't. Not after he married Sansa. I seem to recall Cersei threatening to "skin Roose Bolton and his b*stard like that wretch on their bloody sigil” when littlefinger told her that Ramsey married Sansa. LittleFinger didn't march on winterfell just because Sansa asked him too. That was his plan all along.
The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
as a matter of fact.... cersei said she would make littlefinger warden of the north if he did so
so technically even tho sansa is back in winterfell... she's not the wardeness.. as they are appointed by the king and king tommen would never do that shyt
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
Your first sentence is a complete ignorance of the post that you quoted. Even if she had trusted Jon, it would've resulted in a LOSS. LF's goal wasn't for Sansa to mistrust Jon, his goal was to get her to trust him again so that he would be in a position of power with her.
You second sentence has no place in the discussion. We're not arguing whether it was understandable or not, we're arguing who was right and who made the smart call. It's Sansa and Sansa
She didn't send him anywhere...and you're talking about a discussion that would've never even been had if Sansa did not plead with Jon to trust her opinion in the first place. Jon disregarded anything she had to say right up until she was like "nikka nobody knows Ramsay better than I do and you not gonna ask my opinion?" But yeah no, we'll put it on Sansa for not telling Jon about an army she doesn't know for sure is coming.
theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
1. yeah, bolton, the lord who was poisoned by enemies said that, and? why would ramsey give a fuk about what he had to say, he is dead, ramsey correctly surmised that he could easily defeat any houses that rebelled, if it wasnt for the vale his plan would have succeeded, no house was going to challenge him if he had defeated the starks
2. lets take a step back and clarify military terms
in wars there are strategic moves and there are tactical moves, you seem to be confusing the 2
STRATEGIC is big picture, TACTICAL is small picture
it is correct that the STRATEGIC purpose of the army was to defend Winterfell, but Ramsey had made a TACTICAL decision that he was going to defend in the field, he could have easily made a different TACTICAL decision to defend winterfell from the inside ala Blackfish
at the STRATEGIC level, once he defeated the starks, he would be unchallenged, any anger over minor tactical decision made in the battle would not compare to the complete STRATEGIC advantage HE GAINED, the starks becuase of heir name and theoritical ability to call up banners were the only STRATEGIC threat to ramsey, no other houses would give 2 fuks about the fact that the umbers and karstarcks were used as fodder and the umbers and the karstacks would have no TACTICAL advantage since their men were dead
so his plan made sense
ramsey was using the umbars and karstarks as fodder, aftert the battle was over they would not be in a position challenge him
3. it is correct that winterfell is not as as secure as riverrun, but the TACTICAL situation would have been the similar, a wall is a wall and a small force of men could have held against a much larger force
4. that wasnt stupid and they werent his men, once the starks were defeated ramsey would have overwhelming STRATEGIC power over the north, if he had won, which he was just about to, the umbers and karstacks would not have been in either A TACTICAL (they had few men) or STRATEGIC (no house would rally to them) position to challenge him
it was good plan, littlefinger and sansa ruined it
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FrankyFourFingers
Raised in Ruins
Theon living and breathing is a W in itself. Dude done have the worst luck, been a walking L.Can't wait for #Theonset to get that much deserved win when Khaleesi marries him and gives him a dragon or two
living that Grey Worm life not able to hit
Breh arguably gave the best speech of the series, then got a spear to the back of the head at the end of it
Im pulling for the breh though
Took me awhile to post my thoughts as the last couple days have been busy. Watched all of GM 7 and celebrated the Cacs victory with my father for a couple hours until I got home and watched Battle Of The b*stards around 2am...
This episode. Again, was FANTASTIC. So much shyt to talk about so let's just jump right into it..
-Dany ACTUALLY did something cool for once besides declare herself THE White Savior of the entire world and actually started PROVING it. I liked how even though she came right into the midst of a supposed Tyrion fukk up she didn't outright dismiss EVERYTHING he'd done to hold the fort down and still listened to reason when he offered it. The "compromise" was a thrilling and epic scene that served to show the might of the Dragons, Dany's resolve, Grey Worm's badassery, and Tyrion's sense of humor and strategy. Now that Theon Cockless and Yara have apparently discovered instant transmission, the Iron-Born/Breaker Of Chains alliance could FINALLY set up the long anticipated voyage to Westeros. I hope the Dany-Yara flirting doesn't go beyond that as I'm a little tired of the "Men are all tyrants and animals, girl power is the RIGHT power" message that they've been beating over our heads with lately. All we need is a lesbian relationship between two of the strongest willed female characters to make the "testosterone is evil" cypher complete
Tyrion ain't forgot shyt. Dude was handing poor Theon a helping of humble Ether pie like dude ain't spent the last three seasons getting tortured by Jeffrey Dahmer Bolton. I pray he doesn't find out about Theon's.....disability for awhile or Tyrion might make him commit that...
-Jon and Jeffrey Dahmer Bolton's little pre-b*stard bowl face off was like the prefight banter between two heavyweights who'd never met but already hated each other simply based off reputation. My prediction from last week was 100% spot on when I said Jon was going to challenge Dahmer-Bolton to a duel. Of course Dahmer-Bolton, knowing he wouldn't stand a chance, declined. Jon still got in some good jabs though, he was actually a bit like pre-resurrection Jon Snow in this sequence, swag and heart. Of course Sansa had to throw in her little bit, which was cool considering what she'd been through but then...
This bytch comes charging at Jon Snow on some bullshyt "you NEVER ask MY opinion on battle plans" Steeze and then when Jon concedes to her point (not mentioning that, to ANYONE'S knowledge she's never even been in a battle tent let alone strategized alongside warriors) she has NOTHING to offer
and then when Jon reminds her exactly WHY he's doing this, to protect her and Rickon, all she can offer is that Rickon is better left for dead and that "nobody" can protect her
. bytch you would spit in the FACE of your brother, who after being MURDERED and brought back to life decided that all he wanted was to go south and live in peace away from all the violence and bullshyt. YOU showed up and convinced HIM to go to war for YOU and his little Brother, and your telling him on the eve of the biggest battle of his resurrected life that his two ONLY motivations for being there mean NOTHING
And we're not going to even mention that you held back the knowledge of the Knights Of The Vale potentially being available to assist so that you can sit atop your high horse and grin like a fukking Chesire Cat like you've got some pull
. I've been reading some comments all about how Jon isn't fit to rule the North because of the "stupid" decision he made in trying to save Rickon. Conveiently forgetting that Jon's intentions were NEVER to rule the North or even rule Winterfell. Jon's ENTIRE purpose in this mission was to save Rickon and defeat Ramsay in order for Sansa to feel "protected". Jon isn't there to play the "Game" and fukk Sansa for sacrificing her youngest brother and manipulating another to further an agenda. That's Cersei levels of evil. Now if the show is going in that direction of turning Sansa into the same type of sick and twisted individuals that she once suffered under then so be it. It would actually be refreshing in a way to show the true birth of a sociopath and the events leading to that individual's shedding of their humanity. But if the writers of the show are going down that path they need to commit to it FULLY because it robs the character of a potentially tragic, yet earned culmination of all they've been through if they don't. Plus it makes sense in a fashion, if Jon, Arya, and Bran are going to make it through all the trauma they've endured more or less as still "moral" characters with a clear sense of right and wrong, nobility, and loyalty; then it speaks to GRRM's sense of grim reality that the most worldly ignorant and naive of the children would turn out to be the most cruel and calculating.
Seeing Jon pummel Ramsay into a pile of blood and bone was SOOOO SATISFYING
and allowing Sansa to feed him to his precious Hounds was a fitting and poetic end
. His final "I will not lose for even defeat, there's a valuable lesson learned so it evens it up for me" fukk you to Sansa before the dogs feasted was just the send off he needed. I'm glad he's gone and the show can move onto the Hign Sparrow/White Walkers end game. My prediction that Davos would die didn't come true but he's going to be out for Mellesandrei's HEAD sooner or later and that certainly won't end well. I'd still be surprised if he lasts the season.
No predictions for next week. My only HOPE is that the show goes all the way with Darth Sansa's trip down the dark side, that Tommen's bytch ass dies, and that Bran gives us THE flashback we've all been hoping for
This episode. Again, was FANTASTIC. So much shyt to talk about so let's just jump right into it..
-Dany ACTUALLY did something cool for once besides declare herself THE White Savior of the entire world and actually started PROVING it. I liked how even though she came right into the midst of a supposed Tyrion fukk up she didn't outright dismiss EVERYTHING he'd done to hold the fort down and still listened to reason when he offered it. The "compromise" was a thrilling and epic scene that served to show the might of the Dragons, Dany's resolve, Grey Worm's badassery, and Tyrion's sense of humor and strategy. Now that Theon Cockless and Yara have apparently discovered instant transmission, the Iron-Born/Breaker Of Chains alliance could FINALLY set up the long anticipated voyage to Westeros. I hope the Dany-Yara flirting doesn't go beyond that as I'm a little tired of the "Men are all tyrants and animals, girl power is the RIGHT power" message that they've been beating over our heads with lately. All we need is a lesbian relationship between two of the strongest willed female characters to make the "testosterone is evil" cypher complete
Tyrion ain't forgot shyt. Dude was handing poor Theon a helping of humble Ether pie like dude ain't spent the last three seasons getting tortured by Jeffrey Dahmer Bolton. I pray he doesn't find out about Theon's.....disability for awhile or Tyrion might make him commit that...
-Jon and Jeffrey Dahmer Bolton's little pre-b*stard bowl face off was like the prefight banter between two heavyweights who'd never met but already hated each other simply based off reputation. My prediction from last week was 100% spot on when I said Jon was going to challenge Dahmer-Bolton to a duel. Of course Dahmer-Bolton, knowing he wouldn't stand a chance, declined. Jon still got in some good jabs though, he was actually a bit like pre-resurrection Jon Snow in this sequence, swag and heart. Of course Sansa had to throw in her little bit, which was cool considering what she'd been through but then...
This bytch comes charging at Jon Snow on some bullshyt "you NEVER ask MY opinion on battle plans" Steeze and then when Jon concedes to her point (not mentioning that, to ANYONE'S knowledge she's never even been in a battle tent let alone strategized alongside warriors) she has NOTHING to offer
and then when Jon reminds her exactly WHY he's doing this, to protect her and Rickon, all she can offer is that Rickon is better left for dead and that "nobody" can protect her. bytch you would spit in the FACE of your brother, who after being MURDERED and brought back to life decided that all he wanted was to go south and live in peace away from all the violence and bullshyt. YOU showed up and convinced HIM to go to war for YOU and his little Brother, and your telling him on the eve of the biggest battle of his resurrected life that his two ONLY motivations for being there mean NOTHINGAnd we're not going to even mention that you held back the knowledge of the Knights Of The Vale potentially being available to assist so that you can sit atop your high horse and grin like a fukking Chesire Cat like you've got some pull
. I've been reading some comments all about how Jon isn't fit to rule the North because of the "stupid" decision he made in trying to save Rickon. Conveiently forgetting that Jon's intentions were NEVER to rule the North or even rule Winterfell. Jon's ENTIRE purpose in this mission was to save Rickon and defeat Ramsay in order for Sansa to feel "protected". Jon isn't there to play the "Game" and fukk Sansa for sacrificing her youngest brother and manipulating another to further an agenda. That's Cersei levels of evil. Now if the show is going in that direction of turning Sansa into the same type of sick and twisted individuals that she once suffered under then so be it. It would actually be refreshing in a way to show the true birth of a sociopath and the events leading to that individual's shedding of their humanity. But if the writers of the show are going down that path they need to commit to it FULLY because it robs the character of a potentially tragic, yet earned culmination of all they've been through if they don't. Plus it makes sense in a fashion, if Jon, Arya, and Bran are going to make it through all the trauma they've endured more or less as still "moral" characters with a clear sense of right and wrong, nobility, and loyalty; then it speaks to GRRM's sense of grim reality that the most worldly ignorant and naive of the children would turn out to be the most cruel and calculating.Seeing Jon pummel Ramsay into a pile of blood and bone was SOOOO SATISFYING
and allowing Sansa to feed him to his precious Hounds was a fitting and poetic end. His final "I will not lose for even defeat, there's a valuable lesson learned so it evens it up for me" fukk you to Sansa before the dogs feasted was just the send off he needed. I'm glad he's gone and the show can move onto the Hign Sparrow/White Walkers end game. My prediction that Davos would die didn't come true but he's going to be out for Mellesandrei's HEAD sooner or later and that certainly won't end well. I'd still be surprised if he lasts the season.No predictions for next week. My only HOPE is that the show goes all the way with Darth Sansa's trip down the dark side, that Tommen's bytch ass dies, and that Bran gives us THE flashback we've all been hoping for
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Im done with this argument. Y'all keep coming up with the same lame reasons that in no way justify what she did. If you want my rebuttal go back and read the comments I already made to the other Sansa supporters who said the same exact mess you did.
One could only hope
.
