Official Game of Thrones Season 6 Thread

[K-ZOE]

1. His parents were eaten by Thenns...there were no Thenns at Castle Black.

I don't think Ollie or anyone else south of the Wall acknowledges that there are different tribes of Wildlings. A wildling is a wildling to them.

I just assumed he bounced cause trchnically, he was killed/dead and was like fukk this

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

1. His parents were eaten by Thenns...there were no Thenns at Castle Black.
2. I understand his anger, but as someone said, you make grown man choices, you deal with grown man consequences.
3. Jon saved him from that fate and he acted like that meant nothing. People in ASOIAF have taken sworn oaths for less.

Ygritte killed his pops, who knows who killed his moms. The Thens are the only cannibals so yea they ate them, but it was that whole crew who raided his village and killed not just his parents but probably everybody he's ever known.



Tormund was the leader of that crew (at least in Ollie's eyes, cuz he's treated like a general now). Ygritte and the Sytr are dead already.

He deserved to die, but the fan hate is unwarranted. I've heard people defend Thorne over him.

 

[MalikX]

I mostly agree with you save for ONE thing.


Every action has a reaction. Ollie wasn't necessarily WRONG in his feelings and even his actions weren't necessarily out of the realm of understanding. He made a CHOICE to betray Jon and STAB him in the heart. Once you make adult decisions (I.e. The murder of your Lord Commander) you have to face adult consequences. Jon did exactly what he was SUPPOSED to do and killed all of those who betrayed him. Once you COME BACK FROM THE DEAD you don't give the men who killed you second chances. Jon already had done his best to explain to Ollie his reasoning for allowing the Wildings inside the Wall, and Ollie made a DECISION to say "fukk all of that". So what Jon did wasn't "dark", it was common sense and the consequences for Ollie's decision.

Also, you can't irrationally hate an entire group because a tiny segment of that group did something to you. People commit genocide and feel justified in doing so because of feelings like that. Should the Starks murder every Lannister woman and child, every Bolton woman and child and every Frey woman and child because a few cats in their family did them dirty. You can lose yourself real quick with that sort of thinking

Ollie was maybe 13 years old. He decided to kill somebody. I think we all knew at 13 that killing somebody was wrong. Don't let him off the hook for that. He chose his fate.

 

[MalikX]

Good stuff. Dapped and repped
My only beef with Ned and Jon even after that point was him letting Jon join the NW without telling him. That's a lifetime commitment and Jon was only 15 at the time.


Ollie sucked but again he sucked in part for the same reason the rest did. First off Jon saved Ollie and took him in when he could've just sent him off to Mole's town after the battle. Second besides Tormond the wildlings that murked his family were all killed in the battle. Third it is again shortsighted. Having wildings helping you fight the Wights and White Walkers is better than adding thousands of bodies to the Wight army. Not only that but the wildings are ALREADY on the other side of the wall and the NW is not only outnumbered but in an indefensible position at Castle Black. Killing John for allowing them through is essentially an act of war against them and once they found out we saw what happened and they should've seen it coming. Ollie's old enough to conspire so he should be old enough to figure that out

Nah son......Jon lived his whole life thinking he wasn't worth shyt, not a real Stark, not a real member of the family because he was a b*stard.

If he knew he was really Rhaegar's son then eventually when someone called him b*stard he would've let that secret slip.

You tell a secret like that to a grown man and even then, you gotta be careful that he's smart enough to know the consequences.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Nah son......Jon lived his whole life thinking he wasn't worth shyt, not a real Stark, not a real member of the family because he was a b*stard.

If he knew he was really Rhaegar's son then eventually when someone called him b*stard he would've let that secret slip.

You tell a secret like that to a grown man and even then, you gotta be careful that he's smart enough to know the consequences.

You're missing my point. Not telling him who his parents are is one thing. Letting him take the black for life is a whole nother thing. Throughout the series there are plenty of b*stards that are doing things. Aurane Waters is the master of ships in KL for example. Ned could've taken him with him to KL, could've arranged for him to become a knight. He could've sent him somewhere else to be fostered. He could've had him be an apprentice to be Winterfells next master of arms or smith or any number of things. Jon only joined the watch because he felt there was literally nothing for him there, especially with Cat around who hated him. Matter of fact the only reason Cat hates him is because he decided to raise Jon as his own in the castle when he could've set something else up for him. He's the Warden of the North. He could've gotten any random townswoman and paid them to raise Jon.

When Jon gets to the watch he keeps saying that everyone knew what the place was but nobody told him. Ned could've simply told him the truth about what the watch was.

 

[Tasha And]

You're missing my point. Not telling him who his parents are is one thing. Letting him take the black for life is a whole nother thing. Throughout the series there are plenty of b*stards that are doing things. Aurane Waters is the master of ships in KL for example. Ned could've taken him with him to KL, could've arranged for him to become a knight. He could've sent him somewhere else to be fostered. He could've had him be an apprentice to be Winterfells next master of arms or smith or any number of things. Jon only joined the watch because he felt there was literally nothing for him there, especially with Cat around who hated him. Matter of fact the only reason Cat hates him is because he decided to raise Jon as his own in the castle when he could've set something else up for him. He's the Warden of the North. He could've gotten any random townswoman and paid them to raise Jon.

When Jon gets to the watch he keeps saying that everyone knew what the place was but nobody told him. Ned could've simply told him the truth about what the watch was.

So you're saying when Ned was about to jet to King's Landing and Jon said he was joining the Watch, Ned should have told him not to because it sucks there....and then what? Tell him right then and there about his parentage and then leave?

 

[Verbal Kint]

So you're saying when Ned was about to jet to King's Landing and Jon said he was joining the Watch, Ned should have told him not to because it sucks there....and then what? Tell him right then and there about his parentage and then leave?

No I'm saying that as his father (because he assumed that role), Ned never had the foresight to give Jon anything to aspire to. He didn't give him a trade or even a future role to look forward to. Not only that but he never protected him from his hateful wife. Any man in that situation should check his wife. Then after all that when Jon started talking about joining the watch he should've talked him out of it or found him something else. As his father. The Watch was full of guys sent there as criminals, sent there because their family finds them useless or guys that lost battles. Jon was one of the few there voluntarily. You think he's the only b*stard of a Lord in Westeros? Why is that everyone else felt they had better options than the wall except for Jon? If it's such a logical destination for a b*stard the wall should be full of them, but they called Jon a b*stard like he was the only one there.

 

[MalikX]

You're missing my point. Not telling him who his parents are is one thing. Letting him take the black for life is a whole nother thing. Throughout the series there are plenty of b*stards that are doing things. Aurane Waters is the master of ships in KL for example. Ned could've taken him with him to KL, could've arranged for him to become a knight. He could've sent him somewhere else to be fostered. He could've had him be an apprentice to be Winterfells next master of arms or smith or any number of things. Jon only joined the watch because he felt there was literally nothing for him there, especially with Cat around who hated him. Matter of fact the only reason Cat hates him is because he decided to raise Jon as his own in the castle when he could've set something else up for him. He's the Warden of the North. He could've gotten any random townswoman and paid them to raise Jon.

When Jon gets to the watch he keeps saying that everyone knew what the place was but nobody told him. Ned could've simply told him the truth about what the watch was.

King's Landing? Do you NOT remember what happened to Ned King's Landing is a HORRIBLE place for Jon to go. HORRIBLE. Jon needed to be out of sight, out of mind, far away from people like Varys, Tyrion, Tywin and Littlefinger who would be asking all sorts of uncomfortable questions.

Ned let him join the Night's Watch because it was the best place for Jon to go. When you join the Night's Watch, you forsake all claims, all inheritances. Jon would never be safe doing anything else. If he was a Knight, a Master of Arms, a Smith, a Maester, he wouldn't have been safe. If people found out about his heritage, somebody would want to use him to stage a rebellion and/or the Baratheons/Lannisters would want him dead. The only safe choice for him was the Night's Watch or to go far across the world like Dany and Viserys.

Remember Aemon Targaryen, the old guy that Jon took care of at the Wall, that's exactly the reason he joined the Night's Watch. So his brother could become King. If he did anything else, chose any other option, people would keep using him as a tool against his brother. By joining the Night's Watch, he gave up all inheritances, all claims, all rights.

 

[JMurder]

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

No I'm saying that as his father (because he assumed that role), Ned never had the foresight to give Jon anything to aspire to. He didn't give him a trade or even a future role to look forward to. Not only that but he never protected him from his hateful wife. Any man in that situation should check his wife. Then after all that when Jon started talking about joining the watch he should've talked him out of it or found him something else. As his father. The Watch was full of guys sent there as criminals, sent there because their family finds them useless or guys that lost battles. Jon was one of the few there voluntarily. You think he's the only b*stard of a Lord in Westeros? Why is that everyone else felt they had better options than the wall except for Jon? If it's such a logical destination for a b*stard the wall should be full of them, but they called Jon a b*stard like he was the only one there.

You're ignoring the fact that while the Wall is viewed as you described by other houses, it was NOT viewed that way by the Starks. Ned included. It was considered an honorable path.

Benjen wasn't a b*stard, he chose the wall.

 

[Verbal Kint]

King's Landing? Do you NOT remember what happened to Ned King's Landing is a HORRIBLE place for Jon to go. HORRIBLE. Jon needed to be out of sight, out of mind, far away from people like Varys, Tyrion, Tywin and Littlefinger who would be asking all sorts of uncomfortable questions.

Ned let him join the Night's Watch because it was the best place for Jon to go. When you join the Night's Watch, you forsake all claims, all inheritances. Jon would never be safe doing anything else. If he was a Knight, a Master of Arms, a Smith, a Maester, he wouldn't have been safe. If people found out about his heritage, somebody would want to use him to stage a rebellion and/or the Baratheons/Lannisters would want him dead. The only safe choice for him was the Night's Watch or to go far across the world like Dany and Viserys.

Remember Aemon Targaryen, the old guy that Jon took care of at the Wall, that's exactly the reason he joined the Night's Watch. So his brother could become King. If he did anything else, chose any other option, people would keep using him as a tool against his brother. By joining the Night's Watch, he gave up all inheritances, all claims, all rights.

You're saying all that like his parentage is just sitting there waiting to be found out. Robert, the main one who cared, knew all about Jon and assumed he was Ned's b*stard as did everyone else. The ONLY way anybody would find anything out is if Ned or Howland Reed spoke on it which they wouldn't. And why would they care enough to ask questions about Ned Stark's b*stard? Tyrion spent weeks with Jon and never cared to dig into who his mother was because why would he? Who would care? Jon would've been just fine as Ned's squire or something like that. Its a big deal for us as book readers but literally nobody alive other than Howland Reed has given any indication that they have any clue who Jon's real parents are nor has anyone cared other than when Stannis mentioned that it wasn't Ned's way to father a b*stard.

 

[Verbal Kint]

You're ignoring the fact that while the Wall is viewed as you described by other houses, it was NOT viewed that way by the Starks. Ned included. It was considered an honorable path.

Benjen wasn't a b*stard, he chose the wall.

No I'm considering that. Even Benjen tried to disuade Jon from joining. But its not even like Ned gave Jon the real on what he was getting into. Jon didn't even realize the Wall was full of criminals. He was given basically no info. Look I've got kids and me and my wife adopted her twin brothers when they were like 14. Both eventually joined the Navy after HS and I sat down with them, went over pros and cons and helped them research. At the VERY least I made sure they knew what they were getting into because it's a 4-5 year commitment. This nikka Ned was like 'oh you want to pledge your life to something you know nothing about? Cool thing. Naw I don't need to give you any info'. Kinda nonsense is that?

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

You're saying all that like his parentage is just sitting there waiting to be found out. Robert, the main one who cared, knew all about Jon and assumed he was Ned's b*stard as did everyone else. The ONLY way anybody would find anything out is if Ned or Howland Reed spoke on it which they wouldn't. And why would they care enough to ask questions about Ned Stark's b*stard? Tyrion spent weeks with Jon and never cared to dig into who his mother was because why would he? Who would care? Jon would've been just fine as Ned's squire or something like that. Its a big deal for us as book readers but literally nobody alive other than Howland Reed has given any indication that they have any clue who Jon's real parents are nor has anyone cared other than when Stannis mentioned that it wasn't Ned's way to father a b*stard.

Could just be foreshadowing by D&B, but Littlefinger has hinted he knows the truth. Or at least has some suspicions on the veracity of the commonly accepted story.

 

[Saiyajin]

olly was just a kid when he came to the Wall damn

 

[FrankyFourFingers]

Could just be foreshadowing by D&B, but Littlefinger has hinted he knows the truth. Or at least has some suspicions on the veracity of the commonly accepted story.

Yeah it seems people probably suspect something. Littlefinger basically implied to the viewrs in the underground grave that raeghar probably didnt rape her and they were probably in love.

Aswell as stannis questioning whether jon is neds son.

Also why wouldnt baristan know something was up. If he knew raeghar was this upstanding charismatic dude, why would he believe he kidnapped and raped her.