Official Game of Thrones Season 4 Thread *The North Remembers*(NO SPOILERS!!)

[Adam3000]

I'll put it in spoilers so that way people can scroll past what I got to say like

I don't want to be that guy and nitpick the episode for people that liked it.

Spoiler: no plot spoiler, just bickering

First off I don't read the books. So anything I say is strictly about the show....and I guess by extension the books.

The show tries so hard to go against the grain that it's becoming predictable. "The grain" being the usual happy "good guys win" Hollywood bullshyt. After 4 seasons anytime I see a new interesting character that seems halfway decent I assume they'll die a horrible death. I swear to God I had a convo earlier in the day....and I called the fight ending more or less exactly how it did. I knew Obreryn would die, and he'd die horribly, and it would somehow undermine the Trial By Combat, thus keeping Tyrion in danger. That's G.R.R. Martin 101 at this point.

So the reasons you're saying....nah. They've been pulling the same okey-doke since Ned Stark, and I don't want some happy shyt because I want the Lannisters to catch an L....I want anything beyond the usual "introduce/prop up a decent character....oh they're dead" routine going on 4 seasons. "Nobody is safe" is cool but eventually somebody has to be safe, or else death means nothing, because you always expect it. Or at least let off the gas pedal a bit, then catch people slipping. Beloved characters catching Ls late in the season is a cliche at this point.

"Oh look, he died". That's basically how I watched that fight. Not trying to start a stan war but "The Wire" pulled off the "nobody is safe" shyt better, without it seeming like borderline trolling.

It's whatever. I'm not gonna stop watching but I hope at some point G.R.R. Martin understands that if everyone is constantly in danger that becomes as meaningless as nobody ever being in danger.

Fred.

I agree I don't want to clog this thread with annoying bickering so I will drop this one reply just to try and get you to look at it a different way. If you want to respond feel free, I won't drag out my argument any further. I am a believer that in the end, everything will come together and serve as a piece to the puzzle and until it all ends we can not fully digest individual moments on this show.

Spoiler: no plot spoiler, just bickering

Once again though like I said to another dude, every "against the grain" death has served a thematic purpose. There has not been a single shock death in this series other than Catelyn. They all have a purpose. Even the bad guy deaths serve a larger purpose (Joffrey would never have been killed if an equally sadistic younger brother was next in line for the throne).

Because these deaths all serve a larger purpose to drive a major plot element, I'm not sure I agree with the implications you are making.

You use The Wire as an example, but the majority of major character deaths in that show were not necessary, to drive a plot element. They were merely used to illustrate gritty realism and were the very definition of shock deaths. So saying that The Wire did "nobody is safe" better is an odd criticism of GoT

You say you predicted that Oberyn was gonna die, but are you being disingenuous? We were presented with reasons for him to live, and reasons for him to die, and we were confronted with a war of our hearts and minds as to what we believe was going to happen. If Oberyn had lived, would you have said "HOLY shyt I thought for sure he was going to die, this show continues to surprise me!"? I highly doubt it, and if my suspicions are correct than your reaction is a bit disingenuous.

If we focus on the good guys that die, we are forgetting all the good guys who have lived. Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Bran, Sansa, Arya, Sam, etc. Oberyn was a side-character. He was introduced in Season 4 and had a total of like 20-30 minutes of total screen time until that fight. It was our choice as viewers to attach ourselves to him and make him out to be something he was not. He is a Prince of Dorne who came to King's Landing to seek vengeance for his murdered relatives. Thats it. He very well could have been a character that book readers and show watchers hated for all GRRM knew when he published the story 15 years ago.. We personally built those expectations.

 

[satam55]

A little better quality, but fukk it, should be reposted 8000 times anyways.

Spoiler

I ate real good tonight in multiple ways....

Easily the baddest female on the show, not even remotely close, can't even believe dudes a couple pages back weren't naming her in the top 5.

Nope the Baddest chick on the show:

bytch got me watching the first 2 seasons of "The Tudors" just for her.

 

[Adam3000]

Nope the Baddest chick on the show:

She's not even the baddest Queen in the Red Keep

 

[Arianne Martell]

When Grey Worm was apologizing for looking

Don't worry GW I'll let you scissor me


When Ramsey was converted to a legitimate son

When Reek found out he was getting a bath

I've read the books, the reactions, watched the reactions and when I finally saw...I still ended up looking like this

 

[Robbie3000]

How do y'all think losing Jorah is going to play out? He's been her best advisor as far as strategy, she might start making mistakes without old Jorah. Who is going to take his place?

 

[pickles]

i wanna know how they pulled off the scene with the mountain squeezing the fukk outta dudes eyes and having the fake blood come out without him actually being hurt with those huge ass hands applyin pressure to his face like that

CGI blood breh.

 

[satam55]

She's not even the baddest Queen in the Red Keep

Who is badder than her in the Red Keep?!! It ain't Cersei.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Damn so what's next. Is the mountain dead. Nobody was coming to save that nikka. How does dorne come back? I know they definitely want some revenge now. Even tho he volunteered, that's still a prince of their lands.

Took me until right now to even be able to speak on it. I mean damn. I thought he had it. Paused to brag to his bytch with that sly smile. bytches will get you killed. Every damn time

I thought he'd escape. Until is teeth went flying. I was still hoping. Until his eyes got gauged out. Even then I was looking for the miracle. Until his face got caved in.

I don't even ride for this nikka. But his one season of swag and not giving a fukk will go down in history

 

[T-K-G]

CGI blood breh.

makes sense, what about the pressure dude was putting on his eyes tho? you could tell he was really pushin his thumbs down

 

[T-K-G]

Who is badder than her in the Red Keep?!! It ain't Cersei.

cersei can just look at a nikka and make me feel some type a way her and Dany got them facial expressions breh i can't explain it

 

[klutch2381]

I'll put it in spoilers so that way people can scroll past what I got to say like

I don't want to be that guy and nitpick the episode for people that liked it.

Spoiler

First off I don't read the books. So anything I say is strictly about the show....and I guess by extension the books.

The show tries so hard to go against the grain that it's becoming predictable. "The grain" being the usual happy "good guys win" Hollywood bullshyt. After 4 seasons anytime I see a new interesting character that seems halfway decent I assume they'll die a horrible death. I swear to God I had a convo earlier in the day....and I called the fight ending more or less exactly how it did. I knew Obreryn would die, and he'd die horribly, and it would somehow undermine the Trial By Combat, thus keeping Tyrion in danger. That's G.R.R. Martin 101 at this point.

So the reasons you're saying....nah. They've been pulling the same okey-doke since Ned Stark, and I don't want some happy shyt because I want the Lannisters to catch an L....I want anything beyond the usual "introduce/prop up a decent character....oh they're dead" routine going on 4 seasons. "Nobody is safe" is cool but eventually somebody has to be safe, or else death means nothing, because you always expect it. Or at least let off the gas pedal a bit, then catch people slipping. Beloved characters catching Ls late in the season is a cliche at this point.

"Oh look, he died". That's basically how I watched that fight. Not trying to start a stan war but "The Wire" pulled off the "nobody is safe" shyt better, without it seeming like borderline trolling.

It's whatever. I'm not gonna stop watching but I hope at some point G.R.R. Martin understands that if everyone is constantly in danger that becomes as meaningless as nobody ever being in danger.

Fred.

Agree 1000%. People are like, "Why didn't Oberyn do this or that?" "Why did he HAVE to let his vendetta get in the way?"

Oberyn didn't do shyt. GRRM did. It's his master level troll ass that does this every season (as a byproduct of the books). GRRM'S thing is that he wants to break all the writing conventions (e.g. poetic justice, hero arch, etc). We get it, dude. We got it a long time ago.

I also don't know how people are supposed to watch a show and not get attached to the characters at all (if they like the show and don't posses some foreknowledge of events). That's not really feasible for most people. When people say, "I love this show," or "I like this show," they're actually saying there's some quality or characteristic about the show they like beyond the basic story-line, which is derived from some character(s). So, if I say, "I love 24" the likelihood of me then turning around and saying, "But, I hate Jack Bauer" or "I have no feelings towards him at all. I'm apathetic," isn't likely. Basically, Jack Bauer = bad ass, so 24 = bad ass.

*Editor's note: I haven't seen one episode of 24. I was just using it as an example.

 

[Arianne Martell]

I'll put it in spoilers so that way people can scroll past what I got to say like

I don't want to be that guy and nitpick the episode for people that liked it.

Spoiler

First off I don't read the books. So anything I say is strictly about the show....and I guess by extension the books.

The show tries so hard to go against the grain that it's becoming predictable. "The grain" being the usual happy "good guys win" Hollywood bullshyt. After 4 seasons anytime I see a new interesting character that seems halfway decent I assume they'll die a horrible death. I swear to God I had a convo earlier in the day....and I called the fight ending more or less exactly how it did. I knew Obreryn would die, and he'd die horribly, and it would somehow undermine the Trial By Combat, thus keeping Tyrion in danger. That's G.R.R. Martin 101 at this point.

So the reasons you're saying....nah. They've been pulling the same okey-doke since Ned Stark, and I don't want some happy shyt because I want the Lannisters to catch an L....I want anything beyond the usual "introduce/prop up a decent character....oh they're dead" routine going on 4 seasons. "Nobody is safe" is cool but eventually somebody has to be safe, or else death means nothing, because you always expect it. Or at least let off the gas pedal a bit, then catch people slipping. Beloved characters catching Ls late in the season is a cliche at this point.

"Oh look, he died". That's basically how I watched that fight. Not trying to start a stan war but "The Wire" pulled off the "nobody is safe" shyt better, without it seeming like borderline trolling.

It's whatever. I'm not gonna stop watching but I hope at some point G.R.R. Martin understands that if everyone is constantly in danger that becomes as meaningless as nobody ever being in danger.

Fred.

so you think that you are a better genius than GRRM??...

I like it because it is reality...human depravity at its finest. I look at it from an analogy and philosophical point of view...So I don't really care who gets got...there is a message that we all learn from these deaths.

 

[Slystallion]

so if Oberyn knew Brazilian jiujitsu would he have survived and blocked that dude from getting to his face? I mean i guess not after that strike that dazed him

and I thought it was brutal to watch Batman get his back broken...holy shyt would Batman even survive in Game of Thrones...

 

[T-K-G]

the chick who plays Meera did say that they had a all day access weapons camp on set at all times i woulda been in that bytch all day learnin how to use all types of shyt

 

[hex]

I agree I don't want to clog this thread with annoying bickering so I will drop this one reply just to try and get you to look at it a different way. If you want to respond feel free, I won't drag out my argument any further. I am a believer that in the end, everything will come together and serve as a piece to the puzzle and until it all ends we can not fully digest individual moments on this show.

Spoiler: no plot spoiler, just bickering

Once again though like I said to another dude, every "against the grain" death has served a thematic purpose. There has not been a single shock death in this series other than Catelyn. They all have a purpose. Even the bad guy deaths serve a larger purpose (Joffrey would never have been killed if an equally sadistic younger brother was next in line for the throne).

Because these deaths all serve a larger purpose to drive a major plot element, I'm not sure I agree with the implications you are making.

You use The Wire as an example, but the majority of major character deaths in that show were not necessary, to drive a plot element. They were merely used to illustrate gritty realism and were the very definition of shock deaths. So saying that The Wire did "nobody is safe" better is an odd criticism of GoT

You say you predicted that Oberyn was gonna die, but are you being disingenuous? We were presented with reasons for him to live, and reasons for him to die, and we were confronted with a war of our hearts and minds as to what we believe was going to happen. If Oberyn had lived, would you have said "HOLY shyt I thought for sure he was going to die, this show continues to surprise me!"? I highly doubt it, and if my suspicions are correct than your reaction is a bit disingenuous.

If we focus on the good guys that die, we are forgetting all the good guys who have lived. Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Bran, Sansa, Arya, Sam, etc. Oberyn was a side-character. He was introduced in Season 4 and had a total of like 20-30 minutes of total screen time until that fight. It was our choice as viewers to attach ourselves to him and make him out to be something he was not. He is a Prince of Dorne who came to King's Landing to seek vengeance for his murdered relatives. Thats it. He very well could have been a character that book readers and show watchers hated for all GRRM knew when he published the story 15 years ago.. We personally built those expectations.

Spoiler

I'm not saying good guys don't live. I'm saying when they die it's gotten to be such a routine it's expected. Oberyn was well liked, of course he was going to die. And he died. Regardless of how important he is in the grand scheme of things, he was a fairly decent guy, who was just trying to avenge the death of his sister. Why would book readers hate him? We all should've seen his death from miles away.

People are starting to like Jon Snow, I bet an L is right around the corner.

If I said I expected him to die....I expected him to die. I've said virtually nothing negative about this show in 4 seasons. So it's kind of offensive for you to think I have some kind of ulterior motive here....let alone to use the word disingenuous. If he won, and Tyrion was set free, no strings attached....then yes, then I probably would be responding how the rest of you are in this thread, because that's completely unexpected. A well liked character dying towards the end of the season is par for the course for this show.

And I don't care if the deaths are shocking or not....the story could be moved forward or the "themes" could be reached without doing the same shyt over and over again, to the point that it becomes a meme:

I mean....it's cool to have faith that everything will come together but the books aren't even done yet. They have no idea how many seasons this show is going to run for. So I'm dealing with what I'm seeing right now.

But like I said, it's whatever. I'm not here to change anyone's opinion and I seriously doubt there's a combination of words that you or anyone else can come up with, that'll make me and suddenly like the Oberyn shyt.

Fred.