OFFICIAL Game of Holmes Season 8 Thread - A Dream of Flat Tops 4/14/19

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

I keep seeing this argument and I really don't see how anyone comes to this conclusion.
Cersei blew up a church full of innocent people and just moved on to not only take the crown after her bytch ass son killed himself but nobody besides Dany showed any interest in removing her form the Iron Throne.
Eliminate Dany and the Night King from the equation entirely and the weak backed people of Westeros were going to happily allow Cersei to rule until her latest incest b*stard became old enough to assume the throne.

If there's one thing we all should've learned 8 seasons later it's that the regular people of Westeros don't fukking matter!

Regular people ain't leading no revolt, they can barely feed themselves

 

[Chris Cool]

I was planning on stopping discussing this with you because only an incel would be fanboying Joffrey Baratheon and I don't fukk with incels.
But before I move on let's look back at some examples of the decency of Joffrey Baratheon:
Joffrey was so decent that he had the choice of sending Ned to The Wall to become a member of The Nightswatch or chopping his head off...he chose beheading Ned Stark instead
Joffrey was so decent he thought putting Ned's head on a spike was funny
Joffrey is so decent that he sent his guards into the streets of King's Landing to kill any child that could possibly be Robert Baratheon's b*stard
Joffrey is so decent he shot whores full of crossbow arrows

And that is just the murders he is responsible for...haven't even scratched the surface of the non-lethal acts of decency that we all saw from Joffrey.

Breh wtf are you talking about?


I mentioned one fukking sentence with joffrey.
you can't dispute shyt else so that's what you chose to harp on. Did i say he was decent? Joffrey was a piece of shyt, everybody knows. When it came to execution for treason, did he not take Ned's head? All that other shyt has shyt to do with what I'm saying. Ain't Ned take a head for treason? Ain't Jon take a head for treason? To the detriment of himself, ain't Robb take a head for treason?

Only nikkas burning people alive were Stannis and the one known as the fukking mad king. We saw how the people felt about that shyt.

 

[noob_saibot]

THIS

Stannis was the warning and Dorne was the red flag that exposed their strong bias

tbf the Dorne plot is a mess in the books too, if they had done a faithful adaption of the last 2 books it would have made for really boring tv. They had the right idea fastforwarding and cutting out a lot of that stuff, but they failed the execution.

 

[Osmosis]

Man, Tyrion is such a wasted character. The writers ruined him after season 4

and he's still doing this begging shyt with Cersei after...

- Cersei tried killing him when he was an infant

- tried executing him for Joffrey death

- lied about sending an army; leaving him and Jaime to die

- sent Bronn, probably Tryions only remaining "friend" in the entirety of Westeros, to kill both of them


only person that treated him worse was Tywin and Tyrion left that n1gga leakin in the bathroom

They should have just killed him since they clearly don’t have anything interesting planned for him.

Bronn should have died at that battle last season

 

[Robbie3000]

"One of the reason we decided to put the Battle of Winterfell first was because we had to make sure the audience knew the real battle was always about the Throne. They needed to survive the dead, at a great cost, but they had to stop it in it's tracks. The WW threat is stopped so suddenly we don't get every answer about them. We leave that to audience to figure it out ".

"When we get back to King's Landing we see that it's not snowing anymore. That's because the threat of the White Walkers and the Long Night has been erased. At the end of last season we needed to show something that demonstrated that this threat was not only coming, but it was finally here. No that it isn't there, King's Landing is still not as sunny as before, but winter has retreated for a bit".

Shameful shyt.

Everyone other than Oleanna told her that she couldn't just attack KL. Oleanna was setting her up for the okie-doke.

She was an outsider to Westeros. She had 0 allies, an army composed of "savages" and the Unsullied, and dragons that haven't been seen in centuries. The only 2 people on her team that knew Westeros were exiled traitors. Once she attacked KL, she would have no kingdom to rule, since the people would turn on her, and every other kingdom would come for her head. She is, afterall, kin to the Mad King.

That’s exactly how Aegon conquered the six kingdoms. Bend the knee and keep your title or else.

They said that the people will rebel on Cersei soon enough but Dany would rather engage in war. Varys doesn’t want to end one reign of tyranny just to instill another tyrant on the throne, that’s why he’s supporting Jon after they dispose of Cersei.

The people don’t have a choice and never did regardless of who was sitting on that throne. By definition, a king or queen is a tyrant.

 

[Mr Hate Coffee]

nah, olenna said something about that being the last key to the tyrells when loras got hemmed up...and of course all 4 are dead now, so they gone

yea, i dont need them in the story, but i've seen the family trees, they used to be huge then just died off with the current gen. dude could've made them bigger. like there should be some stark first cousins out there somewhere, or sam's dad aint got a brother? we don't need to see or have them named, but it's weird how every single house was hanging on by like 4-5 people

Furthermore, who’s running things where Sam is from anyway. What happens when Sam comes back? Do they just go “you got it breh”?

I feel like it’d be more realistic for someone to say “this is my shyt now”

 

[southern.girl]

This is a long post I found on another forum that defends the writers in their characterization of Dany. I always felt like Dany was going to end up as the Mad Queen when she get to Westeros so I don’t really get why people are acting like that is completely illogical. The steps they’ve taken to get her there has been rushed but the storyline is at least plausible.

Spoiler

Disclaimer: This is going based off show canon and not book canon.

Here is all the previous evidence of her poor decision making and themes in Dany's arc:

Barristan gives Dany some insight in Meereen that is quite applicable to Dany. "The Mad King gave his enemies the justice he deserved, and each time it made him feel powerful and right, until the very end"

1. In Meereen, Dany crucifies the Nobles indiscriminately without a trial, because she saw children crucified on her way to Meereen. While that is definitely sad, her actions are very impulsive and to a certain extent, cruel. Hizdahr Zo Loraq has to beg Daenerys to let his father's corpse off the cross despite the fact that he had no part in crucifying slaves. Not only is the fact that she lets the corpses rot on the cross impulsive, its insanely cruel. Cruelty should not breed cruelty or it will become an endless cycle. Crucifixion is an extremely painful way to die and she chose it willingly in order to make a point or show of force. This is a recurring theme that Dany will commit acts of extreme cruelty because she believes it is the right thing to do.
2. When Hizdahr goes to Yunkai, the masters of Yunkai agree to her terms except that they believe the fighting pits should remain open. Not too unreasonable..but Daenerys has always wanted complete authority, she rejects terms on the basis that she's a Queen, not a politician. Sound a bit too powerhungry to want unquestionable agreement from a city you conquered?
3. When Barristan is killed by the sons of the harpy, she immediately once again indiscriminately arrests the Nobles of Meereen. You'd think she learned her lesson about rushing to judgment but no. On top of that, she forces them into a dungeon to confront her dragons. Herself admitting that she has no idea who's innocent or guilty, she arbitrarily executes a master, for all we know could be innocent, by burning him alive. Wow, im sensing a pattern here. I'd like to point out it would be no trouble to her to have an executioner kill the master for her, and give him a more painless death but no, she chooses Dragon because Cruelty sends a message. She is not to be messed with.
4. When does she have a change of heart? When Hizdahr gets on his knees and begs for his life. That's what she wanted and she achieved her goal. Total and complete surrender. Not to mention Hizdahr never even says he intends to marry her, she in a way forces him to marry her. You might argue, but he could've said no... Totally, he can say no to the queen who just burned a random person alive in a show of force and who needs Hizdahr for political purposes to bring peace to Meereen.

*Brief tangent: Look at it from Hizdahr's POV. Dany arrives in Meereen, conquers the city and then executes his father for a crime he didn't commit. She then arrests anyone associated with his class, and arbitrarily executes a random person, and nearly him. Then when she finally realizes she can't rule without the support of at least some of his class, she forces him to marry her. Sound familiar? Joffrey becomes king, executes Ned, abuses all those associated with the Starks, and then when Robb wages war publicly and only keeps Sansa as his wife so that she can write to Robb to pledge fealty to Joffrey. Hizdahr is also stabbed during the attack in the pit, proving that he wasn't involved with the Harpy.

5) Tyrion's arrival in Meereen highlights her righteousness and belief in destiny. Im not going to stop the wheel, im going to break the wheel. Now some might say oh shes doing that for the people. Something something crushing those at the bottom. But when she asks Tyrion for help what does she ask for? How to help the people? No. To get what she wants. The Iron Throne. Her first thought is not about helping the people, its about getting the throne.

*Some might argue that she helps the North defeat the Night King, but in my opinion this can be explained pretty easily. 1) She loves Jon (who at this point is no threat to her rule and is actually an ally) and 2) She's seen the threat firsthand and it's pretty clear that if Jon and the North lose Winterfell, the Dead will defeat the entire realm.

6) When Meereen is attacked by the slavers, her first impulse is to burn their cities to the dirt. Only Tyrions counsel and comparisons to the Mad King stop her from embarking on her quest.

7) When Jon Snow arrives in Dragonstone, she demands his immediate surrender. She reminds him of the pledge his ancestor made to Aegon the Conqueror. She offers him nothing in return but when he refuses on the rightful ground that the pledge between Lord and King was broken when Dany's father burned his family members alive, she declares her father evil BUT she doesn't acknowledge that the pledge was broken and instead declares Jon in "Open Rebellion". Once again, demanding complete submission for absolutely nothing. She feels entitled to Jons loyalty simply on the basis of her ancestry without acknowledging that the Monarch is supposed to protect their vassals in exchange for fealty and that fealty is not a right. Im reminded of Book Varys's speech about Tommen thinking Kingship is a right and not a duty.

8) When the Tyrells are killed and she destroys the Lannister army in the Field of Fire, she captures the Tarlys. She has choices, prison, yada yada. Tyrion gives her advice to imprison them till they bend the knee, but that wouldnt be complete submission and it would never satisfy her. So she does what she thinks is right, and burns them alive. Once again, using cruelty as a show of force to make a point. Some like to argue that burning alive isn't cruel...and lol. In the context of the show, Tyrion clearly sees burning as WORSE than beheading, because when Dany mentions that shes not beheading anyone, Tyrion is audibly desperate for her not to do so.

9) She forces Jon to give up his claim so she can be queen...but Wait...what happened to the rule of succession? She's seen evidence of the character of person Jon is and yet she forces him to keep his lineage a secret in order to usurp his crown. "What happens when they demand you press your claim and take what is mine?" UM... what... he is the heir to the Iron Throne. The Son of the Crown Prince in every rule of succession comes before the Sister of the Crown Prince.. In What world is the throne Dany's if Jon is who he says he is.. How is that not powerhungry of her to step over him to rule? Destiny? If so Varys put it best, Destiny is one of the easiest ways to justify cruelty.

Dany believing that she is the savior of men is simply a way for her to justify seeking complete authority whereever she goes. Her disregard of Jons claim unveils this pretty clearly and complete's her character arc, and I think her arc is pretty damn amazing. Tyrants don't become powerful unless they have some support from the people. They don't start off with total annihilation or they'd never get the support needed to start. No, they start off doing things that some people love. A lot of tyrants appear better than what came before (Castro and Bautista for ex), but they're not good. The fact that a lot of people are rooting for Daenerys is great and a lesson for us all, many of us don't realize and may even support a Tyrant until they're too powerful to be stopped. It subverts the Chosen One prophecy and shows us exactly what's wrong with that type of thinking..which is why I believe this will be in the books as well. (theres even more evidence for this in the books)

Thats why I loved Varys in the last episode bc he sees it ahead of time and really shows how smart a player he is.

This is a perfect analysis of Dany!!!

I would only like to add that one of few redeeming actions that Dany initiates was freeing slaves but even that was based on how that would benefit her. In Meereen, I believe, she’s asking Jorah how can she make the people love & & want to follow her. Even her freeing the slaves was based on manipulation & self interest.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

When they had her on that roof I knew it was a wrap, I thought she was gonna just push her down not behead her though-effective ass deaths this ep

Missandei definitely could have grabbed Cersei and lept to their deaths if she was just gonna stand there and take it.

I’m sure there’s gotta be a guy there saying these points and ideas. The internet can not be this smart and writers this dumb. They are obviously hearing that guy and saying “Shut up Jim. We don’t have the time or budget for that. Let’s just wrap it up and get ready for this next series”

 

[Osmosis]

IM NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE NEW SPIN
ON THIS HORRIBLE WRITING YOU KEEP DEFENDING...

IM TALKING ABOUT WHEN SHE TOUCHED DOWN LAST SEASON WHEN SHE HAD DORNE,
HIGH GARDEN AND THE IRON BORN.



​

Horrible writing is everything that happened with episode 3 and everything involve Cersei and Euron. The Dany isn’t bad writing, it’s just rushed and people wanted a happy ending with Dany and are afraid they might not get it.

If she woulda came thru and burned the city as an act of war she wouldn’t be a beloved queen which is what she wants. Cersei is hated but feared and Dany would be the same.

 

[the cool]

HBO really shytted on themselves. Both previous seasons should have been the full 10 episodes. Would have cleared up 99% of these complaints if they had more time to flesh shyt out

They always force that speed up shyt on the last seasons of their shows. Sopranos, the wire, oz, etc

Never fails

What was the reason it was 6 episodes and not 10 this season

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Sansa snitching is the reason Ned didn't tell Catelyn about Jon

In the books she snitched to Cersei about Ned leaving and got their whole family hemmed up and ned killed.

8 seasons later and she still running around snitching on her family

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

They should have just killed him since they clearly don’t have anything interesting planned for him.

Bronn should have died at that battle last season

They couldn't kill Tyrion, he's still serving a purpose: to give Dany bad advice. I don't know why people are calling his fall off bad writing, they're acknowledging his bad advice on screen, it's not being ignored. That's a part of his story. He ain't got the juice no more.

 

[hex]

NY has never had decade long winters...neither has KL. What point were you trying to arrive to?



The city of summer is not snowing yet & I’m supposed to throw a fit? You’re being petty. I truly wish y’all would stop watching the show now. Just exit stage left & take your below par rewrites with you, which btw, is way worse than D&D.

Stop being obtuse.

There's no reason to show snow in KL....then cut to scenes of snow in various locations....if it wasn't meant to be taken as "snow is coming to KL".



This is an 8 season long, heavily serialized prestige drama....not a weather report. "Oh, well we thought it was gonna snow....but then it cleared up" doesn't make any sense here.

And like I said earlier in the thread, the same people talking about "stop watching the show" in every post was never even in a "GOT" thread prior to last year.

Casuals really binged this shyt and are telling people that been fans for 8 years "stop watching" because the writing fell off a cliff. WATTBA.

Fred.

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

She was impatient and a few innocent people got killed but none of that makes her "mad"

She's shown plenty of restraint considering she had 3 drains and could have pushed the button if she wanted too.

Of course it doesn't make her mad, but it shows how they've been building up that angle. She's clearly been cognizant of and dealing with the history of mental illness in her family. She's not evil, but if she were to "snap" after racking up all these L's and then having the advisors who she followed turn on her I don't think it would be out the blue.

 

[hex]

HBO really shytted on themselves. Both previous seasons should have been the full 10 episodes. Would have cleared up 99% of these complaints if they had more time to flesh shyt out

They always force that speed up shyt on the last seasons of their shows. Sopranos, the wire, oz, etc

Never fails

You can't blame this on HBO, they said they'd go as long as there was interest in the series. The show runners Weiss and Benioff wanted to cut it short.

I guess you could say "well, HBO should've replaced them" and I agree but I don't know what went on behind the scenes.

Fred.