OFFICIAL Game of Holmes Season 8 Thread - A Dream of Flat Tops 4/14/19

[YaThreadTrashB!]

 

[lightskin jermaine]

Lady mormont



Nvmnd she said it's not her

 

[Stop_It_5]

This is a long post I found on another forum that defends the writers in their characterization of Dany. I always felt like Dany was going to end up as the Mad Queen when she get to Westeros so I don’t really get why people are acting like that is completely illogical. The steps they’ve taken to get her there has been rushed but the storyline is at least plausible.

Spoiler

Disclaimer: This is going based off show canon and not book canon.

Here is all the previous evidence of her poor decision making and themes in Dany's arc:

Barristan gives Dany some insight in Meereen that is quite applicable to Dany. "The Mad King gave his enemies the justice he deserved, and each time it made him feel powerful and right, until the very end"

1. In Meereen, Dany crucifies the Nobles indiscriminately without a trial, because she saw children crucified on her way to Meereen. While that is definitely sad, her actions are very impulsive and to a certain extent, cruel. Hizdahr Zo Loraq has to beg Daenerys to let his father's corpse off the cross despite the fact that he had no part in crucifying slaves. Not only is the fact that she lets the corpses rot on the cross impulsive, its insanely cruel. Cruelty should not breed cruelty or it will become an endless cycle. Crucifixion is an extremely painful way to die and she chose it willingly in order to make a point or show of force. This is a recurring theme that Dany will commit acts of extreme cruelty because she believes it is the right thing to do.
2. When Hizdahr goes to Yunkai, the masters of Yunkai agree to her terms except that they believe the fighting pits should remain open. Not too unreasonable..but Daenerys has always wanted complete authority, she rejects terms on the basis that she's a Queen, not a politician. Sound a bit too powerhungry to want unquestionable agreement from a city you conquered?
3. When Barristan is killed by the sons of the harpy, she immediately once again indiscriminately arrests the Nobles of Meereen. You'd think she learned her lesson about rushing to judgment but no. On top of that, she forces them into a dungeon to confront her dragons. Herself admitting that she has no idea who's innocent or guilty, she arbitrarily executes a master, for all we know could be innocent, by burning him alive. Wow, im sensing a pattern here. I'd like to point out it would be no trouble to her to have an executioner kill the master for her, and give him a more painless death but no, she chooses Dragon because Cruelty sends a message. She is not to be messed with.
4. When does she have a change of heart? When Hizdahr gets on his knees and begs for his life. That's what she wanted and she achieved her goal. Total and complete surrender. Not to mention Hizdahr never even says he intends to marry her, she in a way forces him to marry her. You might argue, but he could've said no... Totally, he can say no to the queen who just burned a random person alive in a show of force and who needs Hizdahr for political purposes to bring peace to Meereen.

*Brief tangent: Look at it from Hizdahr's POV. Dany arrives in Meereen, conquers the city and then executes his father for a crime he didn't commit. She then arrests anyone associated with his class, and arbitrarily executes a random person, and nearly him. Then when she finally realizes she can't rule without the support of at least some of his class, she forces him to marry her. Sound familiar? Joffrey becomes king, executes Ned, abuses all those associated with the Starks, and then when Robb wages war publicly and only keeps Sansa as his wife so that she can write to Robb to pledge fealty to Joffrey. Hizdahr is also stabbed during the attack in the pit, proving that he wasn't involved with the Harpy.

5) Tyrion's arrival in Meereen highlights her righteousness and belief in destiny. Im not going to stop the wheel, im going to break the wheel. Now some might say oh shes doing that for the people. Something something crushing those at the bottom. But when she asks Tyrion for help what does she ask for? How to help the people? No. To get what she wants. The Iron Throne. Her first thought is not about helping the people, its about getting the throne.

*Some might argue that she helps the North defeat the Night King, but in my opinion this can be explained pretty easily. 1) She loves Jon (who at this point is no threat to her rule and is actually an ally) and 2) She's seen the threat firsthand and it's pretty clear that if Jon and the North lose Winterfell, the Dead will defeat the entire realm.

6) When Meereen is attacked by the slavers, her first impulse is to burn their cities to the dirt. Only Tyrions counsel and comparisons to the Mad King stop her from embarking on her quest.

7) When Jon Snow arrives in Dragonstone, she demands his immediate surrender. She reminds him of the pledge his ancestor made to Aegon the Conqueror. She offers him nothing in return but when he refuses on the rightful ground that the pledge between Lord and King was broken when Dany's father burned his family members alive, she declares her father evil BUT she doesn't acknowledge that the pledge was broken and instead declares Jon in "Open Rebellion". Once again, demanding complete submission for absolutely nothing. She feels entitled to Jons loyalty simply on the basis of her ancestry without acknowledging that the Monarch is supposed to protect their vassals in exchange for fealty and that fealty is not a right. Im reminded of Book Varys's speech about Tommen thinking Kingship is a right and not a duty.

8) When the Tyrells are killed and she destroys the Lannister army in the Field of Fire, she captures the Tarlys. She has choices, prison, yada yada. Tyrion gives her advice to imprison them till they bend the knee, but that wouldnt be complete submission and it would never satisfy her. So she does what she thinks is right, and burns them alive. Once again, using cruelty as a show of force to make a point. Some like to argue that burning alive isn't cruel...and lol. In the context of the show, Tyrion clearly sees burning as WORSE than beheading, because when Dany mentions that shes not beheading anyone, Tyrion is audibly desperate for her not to do so.

9) She forces Jon to give up his claim so she can be queen...but Wait...what happened to the rule of succession? She's seen evidence of the character of person Jon is and yet she forces him to keep his lineage a secret in order to usurp his crown. "What happens when they demand you press your claim and take what is mine?" UM... what... he is the heir to the Iron Throne. The Son of the Crown Prince in every rule of succession comes before the Sister of the Crown Prince.. In What world is the throne Dany's if Jon is who he says he is.. How is that not powerhungry of her to step over him to rule? Destiny? If so Varys put it best, Destiny is one of the easiest ways to justify cruelty.

Dany believing that she is the savior of men is simply a way for her to justify seeking complete authority whereever she goes. Her disregard of Jons claim unveils this pretty clearly and complete's her character arc, and I think her arc is pretty damn amazing. Tyrants don't become powerful unless they have some support from the people. They don't start off with total annihilation or they'd never get the support needed to start. No, they start off doing things that some people love. A lot of tyrants appear better than what came before (Castro and Bautista for ex), but they're not good. The fact that a lot of people are rooting for Daenerys is great and a lesson for us all, many of us don't realize and may even support a Tyrant until they're too powerful to be stopped. It subverts the Chosen One prophecy and shows us exactly what's wrong with that type of thinking..which is why I believe this will be in the books as well. (theres even more evidence for this in the books)

Thats why I loved Varys in the last episode bc he sees it ahead of time and really shows how smart a player he is.

Anyone that hasn't read this needs to a young woman went into the fire with those eggs, and what came out amidst salt & smoke was a crazy bytch with dragons

 

[hex]

The unintentional comedy in this thread is off the charts.

WW in the very first scene of the entire series.

"Winter Is Coming" has been repeated dozens of times over the last 8 years. It's the name of the first episode of the entire series, for fukks sake.

"Winter Is Here" is literally the tag line for all the promotional material in season 7.

The Coli: "But who cares about a little snow?"

Fred.

 

[Supa]

wild theory

Maybe just maybe
Jon secretly wants the throne

1. What if they knew having Dany fight all of their wars, would cripple her army so she isn a real threat anymore?

The Starks didn't really set it up that way. It was just something that they could exploit after the fact.

2. What if there was more to Arya saying they NEEDED her at one point but not anymore

More what? That's a pretty straight forward statement. They're plotting to take her out.

3. What if Dany does indeed burn KL down and right when she is about to sit on the throne, Arya stabs her from behind

I'll take that over her killing Cersei

I feel like they can play off the fact that Dany will stop at nothing to win and she is going to go too far and thats when they take her out. or Jon already knows that and basically has a backup plan and he has been playing her all along

Jon isn't the type to stab someone in the back. If he says he didn't want the throne he means it.

I really don't see any way they Dany can go too far. Even if she burns down King's Landing it's war so it's fair game. Everyone is plotting on her so if she had them killed they'd deserve it. Jon violated by telling the secret so if she turns on him that's fair as well. Dany has every right to do whatever.

 

[YaThreadTrashB!]

This is a long post I found on another forum that defends the writers in their characterization of Dany. I always felt like Dany was going to end up as the Mad Queen when she get to Westeros so I don’t really get why people are acting like that is completely illogical. The steps they’ve taken to get her there has been rushed but the storyline is at least plausible.

Spoiler

Disclaimer: This is going based off show canon and not book canon.

Here is all the previous evidence of her poor decision making and themes in Dany's arc:

Barristan gives Dany some insight in Meereen that is quite applicable to Dany. "The Mad King gave his enemies the justice he deserved, and each time it made him feel powerful and right, until the very end"

1. In Meereen, Dany crucifies the Nobles indiscriminately without a trial, because she saw children crucified on her way to Meereen. While that is definitely sad, her actions are very impulsive and to a certain extent, cruel. Hizdahr Zo Loraq has to beg Daenerys to let his father's corpse off the cross despite the fact that he had no part in crucifying slaves. Not only is the fact that she lets the corpses rot on the cross impulsive, its insanely cruel. Cruelty should not breed cruelty or it will become an endless cycle. Crucifixion is an extremely painful way to die and she chose it willingly in order to make a point or show of force. This is a recurring theme that Dany will commit acts of extreme cruelty because she believes it is the right thing to do.
2. When Hizdahr goes to Yunkai, the masters of Yunkai agree to her terms except that they believe the fighting pits should remain open. Not too unreasonable..but Daenerys has always wanted complete authority, she rejects terms on the basis that she's a Queen, not a politician. Sound a bit too powerhungry to want unquestionable agreement from a city you conquered?
3. When Barristan is killed by the sons of the harpy, she immediately once again indiscriminately arrests the Nobles of Meereen. You'd think she learned her lesson about rushing to judgment but no. On top of that, she forces them into a dungeon to confront her dragons. Herself admitting that she has no idea who's innocent or guilty, she arbitrarily executes a master, for all we know could be innocent, by burning him alive. Wow, im sensing a pattern here. I'd like to point out it would be no trouble to her to have an executioner kill the master for her, and give him a more painless death but no, she chooses Dragon because Cruelty sends a message. She is not to be messed with.
4. When does she have a change of heart? When Hizdahr gets on his knees and begs for his life. That's what she wanted and she achieved her goal. Total and complete surrender. Not to mention Hizdahr never even says he intends to marry her, she in a way forces him to marry her. You might argue, but he could've said no... Totally, he can say no to the queen who just burned a random person alive in a show of force and who needs Hizdahr for political purposes to bring peace to Meereen.

*Brief tangent: Look at it from Hizdahr's POV. Dany arrives in Meereen, conquers the city and then executes his father for a crime he didn't commit. She then arrests anyone associated with his class, and arbitrarily executes a random person, and nearly him. Then when she finally realizes she can't rule without the support of at least some of his class, she forces him to marry her. Sound familiar? Joffrey becomes king, executes Ned, abuses all those associated with the Starks, and then when Robb wages war publicly and only keeps Sansa as his wife so that she can write to Robb to pledge fealty to Joffrey. Hizdahr is also stabbed during the attack in the pit, proving that he wasn't involved with the Harpy.

5) Tyrion's arrival in Meereen highlights her righteousness and belief in destiny. Im not going to stop the wheel, im going to break the wheel. Now some might say oh shes doing that for the people. Something something crushing those at the bottom. But when she asks Tyrion for help what does she ask for? How to help the people? No. To get what she wants. The Iron Throne. Her first thought is not about helping the people, its about getting the throne.

*Some might argue that she helps the North defeat the Night King, but in my opinion this can be explained pretty easily. 1) She loves Jon (who at this point is no threat to her rule and is actually an ally) and 2) She's seen the threat firsthand and it's pretty clear that if Jon and the North lose Winterfell, the Dead will defeat the entire realm.

6) When Meereen is attacked by the slavers, her first impulse is to burn their cities to the dirt. Only Tyrions counsel and comparisons to the Mad King stop her from embarking on her quest.

7) When Jon Snow arrives in Dragonstone, she demands his immediate surrender. She reminds him of the pledge his ancestor made to Aegon the Conqueror. She offers him nothing in return but when he refuses on the rightful ground that the pledge between Lord and King was broken when Dany's father burned his family members alive, she declares her father evil BUT she doesn't acknowledge that the pledge was broken and instead declares Jon in "Open Rebellion". Once again, demanding complete submission for absolutely nothing. She feels entitled to Jons loyalty simply on the basis of her ancestry without acknowledging that the Monarch is supposed to protect their vassals in exchange for fealty and that fealty is not a right. Im reminded of Book Varys's speech about Tommen thinking Kingship is a right and not a duty.

8) When the Tyrells are killed and she destroys the Lannister army in the Field of Fire, she captures the Tarlys. She has choices, prison, yada yada. Tyrion gives her advice to imprison them till they bend the knee, but that wouldnt be complete submission and it would never satisfy her. So she does what she thinks is right, and burns them alive. Once again, using cruelty as a show of force to make a point. Some like to argue that burning alive isn't cruel...and lol. In the context of the show, Tyrion clearly sees burning as WORSE than beheading, because when Dany mentions that shes not beheading anyone, Tyrion is audibly desperate for her not to do so.

9) She forces Jon to give up his claim so she can be queen...but Wait...what happened to the rule of succession? She's seen evidence of the character of person Jon is and yet she forces him to keep his lineage a secret in order to usurp his crown. "What happens when they demand you press your claim and take what is mine?" UM... what... he is the heir to the Iron Throne. The Son of the Crown Prince in every rule of succession comes before the Sister of the Crown Prince.. In What world is the throne Dany's if Jon is who he says he is.. How is that not powerhungry of her to step over him to rule? Destiny? If so Varys put it best, Destiny is one of the easiest ways to justify cruelty.

Dany believing that she is the savior of men is simply a way for her to justify seeking complete authority whereever she goes. Her disregard of Jons claim unveils this pretty clearly and complete's her character arc, and I think her arc is pretty damn amazing. Tyrants don't become powerful unless they have some support from the people. They don't start off with total annihilation or they'd never get the support needed to start. No, they start off doing things that some people love. A lot of tyrants appear better than what came before (Castro and Bautista for ex), but they're not good. The fact that a lot of people are rooting for Daenerys is great and a lesson for us all, many of us don't realize and may even support a Tyrant until they're too powerful to be stopped. It subverts the Chosen One prophecy and shows us exactly what's wrong with that type of thinking..which is why I believe this will be in the books as well. (theres even more evidence for this in the books)

Thats why I loved Varys in the last episode bc he sees it ahead of time and really shows how smart a player he is.

What forum you find it on?

 

[YaThreadTrashB!]

 

[YaThreadTrashB!]

 

[QuintessentialMan]

So it has finally happened.

I despise Sansa.
I see what the world been saying for years now. Shes just annoying,selfish and dumb. I was hoping she was going to be the new Little finger but Nah. Shes a cheap knockoff. LF was so slick with it. She is clumsy. People are going to trace the leak to her, Jon will obviously put it together. Does she evn care?
Dany sacrificed a lot at the Norths request, you could at least acknowledge that and be somewhat genuinely greatful for being alive.......no. Shes just giving endless side eye for some reason and now with the breaking of her brothers trust im completely done with her. Thats a red line.
Nothing redeeming about her character at all. Weak,tall and selfish. Shes the contrast to Arya skilled,short and street smart(peep how she strait up admitted Dany saved them and Jon was right to bend the knee, but yet despite that she would still choose family and an independent North over anything. I can at least respect that and the way she said/did it.).


Sansa is just a whole B word She is basically putting a big ass target on the back of the Snowman. What a horrible C word she is.

Im glad Varyz got some good talkie talk in this episode. Dude has the best lines. ''if 8 people know its not a secret anymore ...... thats information.......'' Hes obviously scheming something FIERCE! Tyrion messed up telling him the secret. Dany now has NO ALLIES. No one alive likes her save for Jon and Grey Worm.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

The unintentional comedy in this thread is off the charts.

WW in the very first scene of the entire series.

"Winter Is Coming" has been repeated dozens of times over the last 8 years. It's the name of the first episode of the entire series, for fukks sake.

"Winter Is Here" is literally the tag line for all the promotional material in season 7.

The Coli: "But who cares about a little snow?"

Fred.

Same with the wights and the Direwolves.
Just because the writers stopped caring about these things we're also? Nah you spent seasons building up winter and the dead and the wolves, don't blame me for having gotten invested.

And yeah they bushed the wolves after season 3 already, but these last Ghost scenes are just disgraceful.

It wasn't US who decided to take a 2 year break and then come back thinking we don't need to see final resolution between Jon and his (no longer) siblings. Let's see Bron show up carrying a giant crossbow instead. Jon and Ghost? Nah let's have Jon hug Gilly instead who he talked to onscreen MAYBE once.

 

[southern.girl]

wild theory

Maybe just maybe
Jon secretly wants the throne

Maybe since the starks reunited they been planning to get Dany out of here

1. What if they knew having Dany fight all of their wars, would cripple her army so she isn a real threat anymore?
2. What if there was more to Arya saying they NEEDED her at one point but not anymore
3. What if Dany does indeed burn KL down and right when she is about to sit on the throne, Arya stabs her from behind

I feel like they can play off the fact that Dany will stop at nothing to win and she is going to go too far and thats when they take her out. or Jon already knows that and basically has a backup plan and he has been playing her all along

I’m losing faith in the Political Jon theory but it can possibly happen in the books. On the show, this could be a part of Bran’s angle depending on how “human” he can be.

Stop being obtuse.

There's no reason to show snow in KL....then cut to scenes of snow in various locations....if it wasn't meant to be taken as "snow is coming to KL".



This is an 8 season long, heavily serialized prestige drama....not a weather report. "Oh, well we thought it was gonna snow....but then it cleared up" doesn't make any sense here.

And like I said earlier in the thread, the same people talking about "stop watching the show" in every post was never even in a "GOT" thread prior to last year.

Casuals really binged this shyt and are telling people that been fans for 8 years "stop watching" because the writing fell off a cliff. WATTBA.

Fred.

Your post was nothing but wrong assumptions. I’ve been watching this show since 2012, sweetheart. What this outrage confirms is the group think, inability to recognize nuances in characters & thus discern the motivations of said characters, and the fact that in real time, people would still place a tyrant to rule b/c they value obnoxious power over character.

 

[Ziggiy]

So it has finally happened.

I despise Sansa.
I see what the world been saying for years now. Shes just annoying,selfish and dumb.
Dany sacrificed a lot at the Norths request, you could at least acknowledge that and be somewhat genuinely greatful for being alive.......no. Shes just giving endless side eye for some reason and now with the breaking of her brothers trust im completely done with her. Thats a red line.
Nothing redeeming about her character at all. Weak,tall and selfish. Shes the contrast to Arya skilled,short and street smart(peep how she strait up admitted Dany saved them and Jon was right to bend the knee, but yet despite that she would still choose family and an independent North over anything. I can at least respect that and the way she said/did it.).


Sansa is just a whole B word She is basically putting a big ass target on the back of the Snowman. What a horrible C word she is.

Been saying this since season 6.

 

[Ziggiy]

Even in death Jorah gettin the "you're like a brother to me"

shyt was SAVAGE.

That was a lesson to all men right there.

It don’t matter how much you love them. If you ain’t the RIGHT nikka then it ain’t going down. No matter how many incurable diseases you survive, no matter how many Wights you slay

 

[Foxmulder]

The unintentional comedy in this thread is off the charts.

WW in the very first scene of the entire series.

"Winter Is Coming" has been repeated dozens of times over the last 8 years. It's the name of the first episode of the entire series, for fukks sake.

"Winter Is Here" is literally the tag line for all the promotional material in season 7.

The Coli: "But who cares about a little snow?"

Fred.

It was just flurries happens in Chicago and New York all the time.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

What was the reason it was 6 episodes and not 10 this season

You can't blame this on HBO, they said they'd go as long as there was interest in the series. The show runners Weiss and Benioff wanted to cut it short.

I guess you could say "well, HBO should've replaced them" and I agree but I don't know what went on behind the scenes.

Fred.

I truly believe they talking out their ass. Them and hbo. Cause what I’m bout to post says it was long shooting and production costs. That would have been an HBO call. But then immediately flip it into, oh well we wanted 70 hours but we actually got more time with 73.

In other words. Clusterfukk having zero to do with storytelling or writing. But more time, money and wrapping this shyt up



Why is there only 6 episodes in Game of Thrones season 8?
The shorter season for Game of Thrones season eight is largely due to the higher production values and long episode lengths.

Co-creators David Benioff and DB Weiss confirmed back in 2016 that the seventh and eighth seasons would be shorter.

Season seven contained seven episodes but spanned a long period of time.

They confirmed to Variety in that they couldn’t continue to produce the usual 10 episodes in the 12 to 14-month timeframe.

“It’s crossing out of a television schedule into more of a mid-range movie schedule,” they told the publication.

Then in March 2017, Benioff and Weiss officially confirmed at a South by Southwest panel that the eighth season would consist of six episodes.

Entertainment Weekly reported: “From the beginning we’ve wanted to tell a 70-hour movie. It will turn out to be a 73-hour movie, but it’s stayed relatively the same of having the beginning, middle and now we’re coming to the end,” Benioff said.

“It would have been really tough if we lost any core cast members along the way, I’m very happy we’ve kept everyone and we get to finish it the way we want to.”

Sansa snitching is the reason Ned didn't tell Catelyn about Jon

In the books she snitched to Cersei about Ned leaving and got their whole family hemmed up and ned killed.

8 seasons later and she still running around snitching