OFFICIAL Game of Holmes Season 8 Thread - A Dream of Flat Tops 4/14/19

Rayzah

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wild theory

Maybe just maybe
Jon secretly wants the throne

Maybe since the starks reunited they been planning to get Dany out of here

1. What if they knew having Dany fight all of their wars, would cripple her army so she isn a real threat anymore?
2. What if there was more to Arya saying they NEEDED her at one point but not anymore
3. What if Dany does indeed burn KL down and right when she is about to sit on the throne, Arya stabs her from behind

I feel like they can play off the fact that Dany will stop at nothing to win and she is going to go too far and thats when they take her out. or Jon already knows that and basically has a backup plan and he has been playing her all along
 

Supa

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This is a long post I found on another forum that defends the writers in their characterization of Dany. I always felt like Dany was going to end up as the Mad Queen when she get to Westeros so I don’t really get why people are acting like that is completely illogical. The steps they’ve taken to get her there has been rushed but the storyline is at least plausible.

Disclaimer: This is going based off show canon and not book canon.

Here is all the previous evidence of her poor decision making and themes in Dany's arc:

Barristan gives Dany some insight in Meereen that is quite applicable to Dany. "The Mad King gave his enemies the justice he deserved, and each time it made him feel powerful and right, until the very end"

  1. In Meereen, Dany crucifies the Nobles indiscriminately without a trial, because she saw children crucified on her way to Meereen. While that is definitely sad, her actions are very impulsive and to a certain extent, cruel. Hizdahr Zo Loraq has to beg Daenerys to let his father's corpse off the cross despite the fact that he had no part in crucifying slaves. Not only is the fact that she lets the corpses rot on the cross impulsive, its insanely cruel. Cruelty should not breed cruelty or it will become an endless cycle. Crucifixion is an extremely painful way to die and she chose it willingly in order to make a point or show of force. This is a recurring theme that Dany will commit acts of extreme cruelty because she believes it is the right thing to do.
  2. When Hizdahr goes to Yunkai, the masters of Yunkai agree to her terms except that they believe the fighting pits should remain open. Not too unreasonable..but Daenerys has always wanted complete authority, she rejects terms on the basis that she's a Queen, not a politician. Sound a bit too powerhungry to want unquestionable agreement from a city you conquered?
  3. When Barristan is killed by the sons of the harpy, she immediately once again indiscriminately arrests the Nobles of Meereen. You'd think she learned her lesson about rushing to judgment but no. On top of that, she forces them into a dungeon to confront her dragons. Herself admitting that she has no idea who's innocent or guilty, she arbitrarily executes a master, for all we know could be innocent, by burning him alive. Wow, im sensing a pattern here. I'd like to point out it would be no trouble to her to have an executioner kill the master for her, and give him a more painless death but no, she chooses Dragon because Cruelty sends a message. She is not to be messed with.
  4. When does she have a change of heart? When Hizdahr gets on his knees and begs for his life. That's what she wanted and she achieved her goal. Total and complete surrender. Not to mention Hizdahr never even says he intends to marry her, she in a way forces him to marry her. You might argue, but he could've said no... Totally, he can say no to the queen who just burned a random person alive in a show of force and who needs Hizdahr for political purposes to bring peace to Meereen.
*Brief tangent: Look at it from Hizdahr's POV. Dany arrives in Meereen, conquers the city and then executes his father for a crime he didn't commit. She then arrests anyone associated with his class, and arbitrarily executes a random person, and nearly him. Then when she finally realizes she can't rule without the support of at least some of his class, she forces him to marry her. Sound familiar? Joffrey becomes king, executes Ned, abuses all those associated with the Starks, and then when Robb wages war publicly and only keeps Sansa as his wife so that she can write to Robb to pledge fealty to Joffrey. Hizdahr is also stabbed during the attack in the pit, proving that he wasn't involved with the Harpy.

5) Tyrion's arrival in Meereen highlights her righteousness and belief in destiny. Im not going to stop the wheel, im going to break the wheel. Now some might say oh shes doing that for the people. Something something crushing those at the bottom. But when she asks Tyrion for help what does she ask for? How to help the people? No. To get what she wants. The Iron Throne. Her first thought is not about helping the people, its about getting the throne.

*Some might argue that she helps the North defeat the Night King, but in my opinion this can be explained pretty easily. 1) She loves Jon (who at this point is no threat to her rule and is actually an ally) and 2) She's seen the threat firsthand and it's pretty clear that if Jon and the North lose Winterfell, the Dead will defeat the entire realm.

6) When Meereen is attacked by the slavers, her first impulse is to burn their cities to the dirt. Only Tyrions counsel and comparisons to the Mad King stop her from embarking on her quest.

7) When Jon Snow arrives in Dragonstone, she demands his immediate surrender. She reminds him of the pledge his ancestor made to Aegon the Conqueror. She offers him nothing in return but when he refuses on the rightful ground that the pledge between Lord and King was broken when Dany's father burned his family members alive, she declares her father evil BUT she doesn't acknowledge that the pledge was broken and instead declares Jon in "Open Rebellion". Once again, demanding complete submission for absolutely nothing. She feels entitled to Jons loyalty simply on the basis of her ancestry without acknowledging that the Monarch is supposed to protect their vassals in exchange for fealty and that fealty is not a right. Im reminded of Book Varys's speech about Tommen thinking Kingship is a right and not a duty.

8) When the Tyrells are killed and she destroys the Lannister army in the Field of Fire, she captures the Tarlys. She has choices, prison, yada yada. Tyrion gives her advice to imprison them till they bend the knee, but that wouldnt be complete submission and it would never satisfy her. So she does what she thinks is right, and burns them alive. Once again, using cruelty as a show of force to make a point. Some like to argue that burning alive isn't cruel...and lol. In the context of the show, Tyrion clearly sees burning as WORSE than beheading, because when Dany mentions that shes not beheading anyone, Tyrion is audibly desperate for her not to do so.

9) She forces Jon to give up his claim so she can be queen...but Wait...what happened to the rule of succession? She's seen evidence of the character of person Jon is and yet she forces him to keep his lineage a secret in order to usurp his crown. "What happens when they demand you press your claim and take what is mine?" UM... what... he is the heir to the Iron Throne. The Son of the Crown Prince in every rule of succession comes before the Sister of the Crown Prince.. In What world is the throne Dany's if Jon is who he says he is.. How is that not powerhungry of her to step over him to rule? Destiny? If so Varys put it best, Destiny is one of the easiest ways to justify cruelty.

Dany believing that she is the savior of men is simply a way for her to justify seeking complete authority whereever she goes. Her disregard of Jons claim unveils this pretty clearly and complete's her character arc, and I think her arc is pretty damn amazing. Tyrants don't become powerful unless they have some support from the people. They don't start off with total annihilation or they'd never get the support needed to start. No, they start off doing things that some people love. A lot of tyrants appear better than what came before (Castro and Bautista for ex), but they're not good. The fact that a lot of people are rooting for Daenerys is great and a lesson for us all, many of us don't realize and may even support a Tyrant until they're too powerful to be stopped. It subverts the Chosen One prophecy and shows us exactly what's wrong with that type of thinking..which is why I believe this will be in the books as well. (theres even more evidence for this in the books)

Thats why I loved Varys in the last episode bc he sees it ahead of time and really shows how smart a player he is.

She was impatient and a few innocent people got killed but none of that makes her "mad" :manny:

She's shown plenty of restraint considering she had 3 drains and could have pushed the button if she wanted too.
 

letti cook

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im not buying this "Dany the mad queen" shyt

helping and listening to other muthafukkas has cost her 2 armys, 2 dragons and her 2 best friends

her council keep advising her to chill and she keep LOSING

i never really gave a shyt about Dany like that but at this point Tyrion and Varys can :camby:

burn it all...ALL OF IT :pacspit:
 
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The axe murderer

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fq5fx6xnmow21.jpg
 

CHICAGO

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I keep seeing this argument and I really don't see how anyone comes to this conclusion.
Cersei blew up a church full of innocent people and just moved on to not only take the crown after her bytch ass son killed himself but nobody besides Dany showed any interest in removing her form the Iron Throne.
Eliminate Dany and the Night King from the equation entirely and the weak backed people of Westeros were going to happily allow Cersei to rule until her latest incest b*stard became old enough to assume the throne.

shyt IS STUPID...

CERSEI HAS WIPED OUT WHOLE HOUSES...

SHE LET THE WHOLE WORLD KNOW
SHE fukkS HER BROTHER TOO
CONFIRMING HER KIDS WERE NEVER HEIRS
TO THE THRONE...

SO SOMEBODY EXPLAIN TO ME
WHY SHE IS SITTING ON THE THRONE
WITH NO RESISTANCE?

TYRION JUST SAID SHE HATES THE PPL
AND THE PPL HATE HER...

BUT IF DANY COMES THRU
AND RECKS SHOP
THERES GONNA BE PUSH BACK?

THE WRITING IS HORRIBLE.
:devil:
:evil:

 

goatmane

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Everyone other than Oleanna told her that she couldn't just attack KL. Oleanna was setting her up for the okie-doke.

She was an outsider to Westeros. She had 0 allies, an army composed of "savages" and the Unsullied, and dragons that haven't been seen in centuries. The only 2 people on her team that knew Westeros were exiled traitors. Once she attacked KL, she would have no kingdom to rule, since the people would turn on her, and every other kingdom would come for her head. She is, afterall, kin to the Mad King.
she already lined up support
 

Jack Skellington

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I don't see it as a plot hole. I see bad writing.. I think Euron for example is a horribly written character and I cringe every time he's on screen. The dragon caught lackin after it's mentioned he's hurting.. nah, didn't bother me. :manny:


I’m not happy with euron as a villain at all, so unconvincing, the whole Cersei/Euron fukkery is contrived
 

goatmane

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Can I just be the one to say it fukk Ghost and the direwolves in general. They were literally just props for the last couple of seasons. Why this silly attachment to them?

they were in the very 1st episode....

but white people tripping about it too much.

I seen more outrage for Jon not hugging Ghost than fukking Jorah dying:gucci:
 

Osmosis

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shyt IS STUPID...

CERSEI HAS WIPED OUT WHOLE HOUSES...

SHE LET THE WHOLE WORLD KNOW
SHE fukkS HER BROTHER TOO
CONFIRMING HER KIDS WERE NEVER HEIRS
TO THE THRONE...

SO SOMEBODY EXPLAIN TO ME
WHY SHE IS SITTING ON THE THRONE
WITH NO RESISTANCE?

TYRION JUST SAID SHE HATES THE PPL
AND THE PPL HATE HER...

BUT IF DANY COMES THRU
AND RECKS SHOP
THERES GONNA BE PUSH BACK?

THE WRITING IS HORRIBLE.
:devil:
:evil:

They said that the people will rebel on Cersei soon enough but Dany would rather engage in war. Varys doesn’t want to end one reign of tyranny just to instill another tyrant on the throne, that’s why he’s supporting Jon after they dispose of Cersei.
 

CHICAGO

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They said that the people will rebel on Cersei soon enough but Dany would rather engage in war. Varys doesn’t want to end one reign of tyranny just to instill another tyrant on the throne, that’s why he’s supporting Jon after they dispose of Cersei.

IM NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE NEW SPIN
ON THIS HORRIBLE WRITING YOU KEEP DEFENDING...

IM TALKING ABOUT WHEN SHE TOUCHED DOWN LAST SEASON WHEN SHE HAD DORNE,
HIGH GARDEN AND THE IRON BORN.
:devil:
:evil:

 

goatmane

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Man, Tyrion is such a wasted character. The writers ruined him after season 4

and he's still doing this begging shyt "I know you're not a monster" with Cersei after...

- Cersei tried killing him when he was an infant:picard:

- tried executing him for Joffrey death

- lied about sending an army; leaving him and Jaime to die

- sent Bronn, probably Tryions only remaining "friend" in the entirety of Westeros, to kill both of them


only person that treated him worse was Tywin and Tyrion left that n1gga leakin on a toilet
 
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The Devil's Advocate

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Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven
I was talking about the unsullied


And there were not 100k Dothraki at winterfell. I know they previously said their were 100k when she was still in essos.
My bad. I could swear in season 7, they talked about her still having 100 Dothraki screamers. Maybe lost some in the battle with Jamie. But she was trump tight.

Looking at the unsullied when she first got them, 8k deep..... that small group at kings landed looked to be about 150 nikkas tops.

But yea. The way the dead straight ran over them. Shouldn’t be none
 
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