PoorAndDangerous

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I think as a writer, if this is an anti-white savior story, it's not coming across yet. It shouldn't take 3 movies to get that point. It's also a convenient way to shrug off criticism about how, regardless of its intent, it ultimately centers a white man, sets up a Black antagonist to be fought and defeated in order to gain legitimacy, and then follows his journey to embracing power. It's still focused on him and it's shot in a way that seeks to engender empathy no matter what he ends up doing. It's fine, like I said, I'm digging it, but a real anti-white savior story wouldn't focus so much on the savior in the first place.
Fair enough but the story is halfway finished. It becomes much more clear later on. I can totally see why one would just assume "oh its another white savior trope" but that's really not how Frank Herbert wrote Dune, and that definitely isn't the way Denis intends to tell the story, he even says so himself. The black guy wasn't really an antagonist, he was a warrior who had seen what outsiders had done to his planet and his people and was tired of that shyt, he was the one who was shooting down those spice harvesters that the Harkonnen's had at the beginning. The fremen's were warriors, he died an honorable death, yes it did "prove" to the fremen Paul was worthy, again Paul isn't a savior so calling him one is just wrong. He exploits the fremen for his own power and goals. Paul is the lead character of Dune, not focusing on his story and making him the main character would be idiotic.
 

PoorAndDangerous

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wire28

Blade said what up
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#ByrdGang #TheColi
i thought it was good. no prior exposure to the books. i do agree with others that probably to reach its full potential a mini series type format would have been best, both to explain stuff more deeply and to make certain events hit harder
 

NobodyReally

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Cornfields, cows, & an one stoplight town
Fair enough but the story is halfway finished. It becomes much more clear later on. I can totally see why one would just assume "oh its another white savior trope" but that's really not how Frank Herbert wrote Dune, and that definitely isn't the way Denis intends to tell the story, he even says so himself. The black guy wasn't really an antagonist, he was a warrior who had seen what outsiders had done to his planet and his people and was tired of that shyt, he was the one who was shooting down those spice harvesters that the Harkonnen's had at the beginning. The fremen's were warriors, he died an honorable death, yes it did "prove" to the fremen Paul was worthy, again Paul isn't a savior so calling him one is just wrong. He exploits the fremen for his own power and goals. Paul is the lead character of Dune, not focusing on his story and making him the main character would be idiotic.

OK, this is definitely raising my interest in the book. In terms of language and worldbuilding is it a difficult/tedious read? My rating scale for difficult/tedious is:
1- (easy language and world-building)- (Stephen King)
3- (slightly more complex language and complicated worldbuilding)- (George R. R. Martin)
5- (fairly involved/new languages & complex world-building)- (Tolkien)
10- (dense, antiquated, and sometimes abstract language & fairly involved and at times inaccessible world-building - (H.P. Lovecraft & Kurt Vonnegut).
 

PoorAndDangerous

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OK, this is definitely raising my interest in the book. In terms of language and worldbuilding is it a difficult/tedious read? My rating scale for difficult/tedious is:
1- (easy language and world-building)- (Stephen King)
3- (slightly more complex language and complicated worldbuilding)- (George R. R. Martin)
5- (fairly involved/new languages & complex world-building)- (Tolkien)
10- (dense, antiquated, and sometimes abstract language & fairly involved and at times inaccessible world-building - (H.P. Lovecraft & Kurt Vonnegut).
It is in my opinion a bit tedious of a read, Herbert just isn't as artful with his use of language like Tolkien or George are. I've only read the first, I think it is quite a divisive book and it took me quite a few times to read and get through it completely. It's going to be very hit or miss for a lot of people. I don't think it's complex or difficult intellectually to read, it's just Herbert's writing can be a bit boring and his prose just feels dated when you read it, very similar to Asimov's writing. It is a hugely influential book but I wouldn't put him in the same category as far as pure writing goes as King, George, Tolkien, etc. I still think he built a very very interesting world and universe, it's more "political" like game of thrones etc, not a ton of action. But it's all basically a metaphor about imperialism (definitely an anti-imperialism theme), world powers destroying the environment in the extraction of resources, the dangers of religious extremism and how it would be unstoppable with a real living prophet (Paul), as well as the dangers of charismatic leaders and probably some other themes that went over my head. There is a lot of great stuff in the book, I think it grows on me more and more each time I read it but I won't deny Herbert just isn't as flowery with his writing like George or Tolkien are.
 

nieman

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Philly
OK, this is definitely raising my interest in the book. In terms of language and worldbuilding is it a difficult/tedious read? My rating scale for difficult/tedious is:
1- (easy language and world-building)- (Stephen King)
3- (slightly more complex language and complicated worldbuilding)- (George R. R. Martin)
5- (fairly involved/new languages & complex world-building)- (Tolkien)
10- (dense, antiquated, and sometimes abstract language & fairly involved and at times inaccessible world-building - (H.P. Lovecraft & Kurt Vonnegut).

The book is extremely political, without much flair or action. At times it comes across as a political/military diary, written in real-time. Yes, it is tedious. I'd say on your scale, it's a 8-9. Technically these are humans, descendants of Earth, so the language and references isn't that grueling. Paul leads a "jihad". There are people that love it and there are people that hate it. Unfortunately, it doesn't work as a series, since the books span over decades. I'd say read a few summaries t understand it.
 

O³ (O cubed)

No more PAWGs, PLEASE??!!!??
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I like it better than the 80s film. In that version they tried to pack everything in one film.


I want that sequel ASAP tho
 

CHICAGO

Vol. 9: Trapped
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CHICAGO
IM NOT FAMILAR WITH THE BOOK
NOR PREVIOUS MOVIE
BUT ALL THESE COLORED PPL
CALLING THIS SNOW WHITE BOY
THE MESSIAH IS HILARIOUSLY BAD.


THEN HE KILLS THE DARKEST
nikka IN THE MOVIE AS HIS
COMING OF AGE PARTY.

MID WAY THROUGH THE MOVIE
I REALIZED THIS 2 HR & 35 MINUTE MOVIE
WAS JUST SETTING UP A SEQUEL.
:devil:
:evil:
 

OVER

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Just finished it. I don't know what the hell I just watched. I didn't want to see it in the first place tbh my sister really wanted me to watch it and I took breaks but I told my sister who's more familiar with this property. It was like watching someone perform a song in another language for 3hrs. I don't know what any these words mean but I feel like you did a really good job:ld:
 

Ari Gold Bawse

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did find it weird that the emperor asked them to take over just so he could wipe them out, hope that is explained properly unless i missed it

and is Brolins character presumed dead, i laughed at how militant and loyal he was at protecting his Duke Leto at all times
 
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